Bon Accord Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Some nice colour photos of various Rhodesian Garratts in Sep 2011 "Continental Modeller" - 3 pages worth. Taken in 1992, all working, some on passenger trains, All in "weathered" condition. Don't think these got as far north as Bristol though !! Brit15 It seems there's a few of them still in service in Rhodesia - oil being scarce/expensive due to their well publicised economic woes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 I can't see a Garratt being suitable for fast passenger work. Still, they would have been interesting on The Waverley! Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 I can't see a Garratt being suitable for fast passenger work. Still, they would have been interesting on The Waverley! Dave. Din't you know that BURCo were going to use them for hauling timber out of Kielder Forest. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 I can't see a Garratt being suitable for fast passenger work. Still, they would have been interesting on The Waverley! Dave. Hello Dave / all, didn't the Italians have some express passenger Garratts? OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 I've never heard of any Italian Garratts, Ozzy. It seems to be a phenomenon largely confined to the Southern Hemisphere. You may be confusing them with the German-built Mallet articulated tank locos operated by the FS. Bernard, leg pull or not, it would in no way surprise me if you produced supporting evidence of intended BUR use! Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 26, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 26, 2011 Hello Dave / all, didn't the Italians have some express passenger Garratts? OzzyO. Don't know about Italy but there were definitely some in North Africa (just checked the book - Algeria, where the semi-streamlined double pacific Garratts were booked to run at 75mph and one of them had been tested up to =82mph in France). In Europe the Central Railway of Aragon ran its double pacific Garratts up to 100kph although I suspect the Brazilian ones might not have been so fast. Addenda - there is a pic of one of the Algerian semi-streamliners here (6th pic down) - http://users.powerne...lton/pics5.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 The express Garratt was a French development, they built a class of 4-6-2+2-6-4T for fast service in Algeria, reputedly very successful and has a claim as the holder of the articulated steam speed record. It has been said of the Garratt design that it had still to reach full development of its' potential. If there was a locomotive type capable of carrying a water tube boiler successfully this was the one, as the boiler is on a rigid bridge between the engine units, rather than on flexing frames. But this is one of several possibilities for the type that were never tried. I have footplated in the course of a two day train journey a 3'6" gauge 4-6-4+4-6-4T 15A class Garratt of similar power output to what was proposed for the LMS, and the alacrity with which this monster could accelerate up to the line maximum of 40mph with a 1200 ton load was ample evidence of the power available. When it came to the Vic Falls escarpment gradient of 1 in 40, from a stand near the bottom the driver gave her most of the gear, and she went up at a steady 30mph (the stand was to fill the loco tanks for maximum traction - and there was no slipping) unfortunately I was not on the footplate as the inspector said that the three firemen (two working, one relief) would make it a little crowded... Now that is a mixed traffic machine with 4'9" wheels, on 6' 6" wheels or whatever the acceleration rate would come down but it should be able to run faster. On the Crewe - Glasgow section with Shap and Beattock to overcome I rather fancy such a loco would have made good speed on the ascents. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Hello Dave / all, didn't the Italians have some express passenger Garratts? OzzyO. Hello all, it just shows how your mind can play tricks on you. The Garratts that I was thinking about were New Zealand Governments Class G, on page 3 of the Garratts. I couldn't have got much further out could I. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 An express Garratt would have been a failure on the LMS at the time it was proposed, because one can assume the dead hand of Adnderson would have landed the machines with 4F axleboxes and short-lap/short-travel cylinders. Goodness knows what Fowler was supposed to be doing while in the top seat, and a metalugist at that! I imagine Stanier would have produced a better job with good engine portions and taper boiler with air tight cylindrical smokebox. However, on which lines would it be needed? The ex LNWR West Coast? Would it have done what a Pacific couldn't? Garratts were two engines in one and would have been better suited to eliminating double heading. The Standedge line springs to mind, however this lines speed restrictions imposed their own limitations. I'm using my LMS freight version on a model of this line, as it would have been useful for dragging endless wagon loads of coal. I suspect the reason why the real things were never used was the lack of suitable length lay-bye sidings. Quite why the LNER did not use smallish Beyer Garratts on its Scottish lines remains a mystery. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Quite why the LNER did not use smallish Beyer Garratts on its Scottish lines remains a mystery. Hello Larry / all, to my mind one of the reasons that the Garratts were not more widely used in this country was that the C.M.E. of the railway didn't deassign them and that the railway Co. would have to pay a License fee to build them in house. One route that the L.M.S. passenger Garratt could have been put to good use would have been the S&C. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 The problem with large diameter 'express passenger' driving wheels is they raise the level of the running plate and frame support for the boiler and could restrict the diameter of said boiler. The smokebox might even have to be dished to clear them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebottle Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Don't know about Italy but there were definitely some in North Africa (just checked the book - Algeria, where the semi-streamlined double pacific Garratts were booked to run at 75mph and one of them had been tested up to =82mph in France). Addenda - there is a pic of one of the Algerian semi-streamliners here (6th pic down) - http://users.powerne...lton/pics5.html Wow! Never mind the Heljan LMS Garratts - I want a model of one of these !! Brutal !!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scots region Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Now that I have succeded in luring you to the dark side (cackles insanely) have a look at this http://users.powernet.co.uk/hamilton/bgpix/Dscf1269.jpg And there a wholw wealth of insperation here http://users.powernet.co.uk/hamilton/non-comm.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 The Algerian Garratt is like an A4 gone wrong - seriously wrong! What a beast! Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold slow8dirty Posted August 27, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 27, 2011 Now that's just plain silly. Everyone knows there were a couple of them shedded at Edington Junction for use on the Bridgwater branch!... Thats a marvellous previously unknown gem! Know I know this fact I will have to get one.....can just imagine it on the Highbridge milkie now. :crazy: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Belgian Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Who could forget the proposed Pacific garret Everyone has assumed you meant the LMS one, but perhaps you meant the Southern one? Maunsell got B-P to quote for 15 double-pacific locomotives to work the West of England main line in the 1920s. That wouldn't have suffered from inadequate bearings. JE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmay2002 Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 The express Garratt was a French development There were passenger Garratts from the very earliest days of the Garratt locomotive. The Tasmanians had two 8 cylinder 4-4-2+2-4-4 Garratts and a matching freight pair (2-6-2+2-6-2) in 1912. The passenger engines were reputed to be so smooth at speed that the crews regularly exceeded the speed limits without realising it (no speedos in those days) and so they were taken off passenger work because of the danger. They held the world speed record for articulated locos (on any gauge) for a while at 53mph (which was fast on 3'-6" gauge in 1912). They were both out of service by 1931 but weren't cut up until 1950/1. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Traxson Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Of course if you like Garratts you can see them every day at the moment, on tight curves and 1in 40 banks (both at once!) with ten cars on, in the top left hand corner of Wales. Unfortunately the Heljan one will have the wrong wheelbase to form the basis for a prototype 7mm narrow gauge one, but then again Henmore Dale is a freelance line and those stone trains are heavy! Phil T. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Wow! Never mind the Heljan LMS Garratts - I want a model of one of these !! Brutal !!! The Algerian Garratt is like an A4 gone wrong - seriously wrong! What a beast! Dave. Here's a bigger picture of one of these things - http://abpr.railfan....-39ScanColl.jpg They really are amazing! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Belgian Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Ther was even a proposal for a 2-6-6-2 + 2-6-6-2 Garratt Mallet! See this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Ther was even a proposal for a 2-6-6-2 + 2-6-6-2 Garratt Mallet! See this. My god that would have been a beast. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Someones got, or had, a good sense of humour, the boiler looks far too small (looks smaller than the U1) for what would be required, firebox would need to be bigger with mechanical stoker - no it should have been saved for the 1st of April Jeremy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bon Accord Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Mechanical stoker? Not required in SA back in the day - you simply make the cab bigger and employ more Firemen. Labour was very very cheap then! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 What you say may have been true. The 'GL' class were fitted with Duplex mechanical stokers . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 As were many South African Garratts such as the numerous GMAM. There's a limit to what can be fired by hand, cheap labour or not... Thank you - I was wondering about those, but hadn't got the info to hand ( and the earlier GM), all wonderful machines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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