Heljan Beyer garratt

[Colin_McLeod]

I have a BG that I have not run due to being between layouts at the moment. I for one would like to know the solution to this problem as it may be some time before I come across it it given the current rate of progress on my layout.

[amdaley]

Hi Everyone.

 

I have a BG as well.

I have tested mine on a rolling road for about 2hrs on & off & it seemed to run ok.

 

I too would be very worried by the amount of failures.

You will always have failures in every model produced but the amount of BG failures seems to be far in excess of what could be described as normal.

 

I do hope Hattons reply to the query sent to them.

If not I would be in favour of everyone e mailing them asking the same question.

As a whole it reflects badly on Heljan.

I certainly wouldn't buy another of their models while the BG situation remains unresolved.

[Grovenor]

I note that the spares page has not been populated yet.

http://www.ehattons.com/garrattspares

Keith

[JSpencer]

I am between houses and the layout going back up is not on my wife's priority list!

 

So would certainly like to know what is the problem before the (almost certainly) inevitable happens. Prevention is often better than cure...

[Brian Hawkins]

Hello tidzaboy, I like your video of your BG, just one question, may I ask who carried out the weathering.

[steve45]

I am between houses and the layout going back up is not on my wife's priority list!

 

So would certainly like to know what is the problem before the (almost certainly) inevitable happens. Prevention is often better than cure...

Could you join a local model railway club and use their track to run your BG for extended periods?

[trw1089]

While it seems there are quite a few with problems, it is also likely that the only people posting are those with issues rather than those that haven't. 

 

I have run my Garratt quite extensively now, both bunker first and chimney first with no issues in terms of the gear train or anything else.  I will note that both of my Hornby Black 5s locked up within a couple of hours of running because of the way the valve gear was set up, and I have had a Hornby A3 also do this to me.  If my Garratt locked up, I would probably investigate the fault first, as a) it's a long way from Aus to Liverpool to send it back and b) I don't mind doing repairs myself, as a matter of fact, I used to have to do repairs on a lot of my US rollingstock from time to time, including broken axle gears, faulty motors and the like, even on $1000 brass locos.  

 

Has anyone else actually investigated the cause of the problem instead of asking Hattons?   One thing that I haven't been doing with my Garratt is any real fast running.  I did when running it in, but now I run it at around 20-30 mph.  I'm not sure if that makes any difference, but when a friend of mine's early LMS one locked up, it was at speed and the worm gear that had popped out of it's housing.  Simply lifting off the tank, re-seating it and screwing the tank down meant all was fixed in fairly short order.

 

Cheers

Tony

[cctransuk]

I think that, as a last resort, that's a good idea.

 

However, let's wait until a week after I sent them my query - I feel that it would be reasonable to expect more than just an acknowledgement within a week.

 

I'll get back to you all at the end of the week, unless I hear anything in the meantime.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

I'm afraid that the deathly silence from Hattons continues; I have had nothing other than the following acknowledgement.

Dear John, Thank you for your email. I will pass this on to one of my colleagues who will certainly look into this matter. If we have any information then we will pass this on. I hope this helps but if you need any further assistance, please don't hesitate to get in touch. Kind regards,  Michael CarneyRetail Assistant

If other owners with concerns wish to contact Hattons, we can only hope that it wakes them up !!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Ian Hargrave]

A sustained silence usually means a 'tough it out approach ' with a hope that people will eventually give up and lose interest in further pursuit. I note that the reply has been sent by a 'retail assistant',indicating ,perhaps,a low priority response.

 I wonder again whether an approach to Andy Y might be a way forward on this i.e.to seek further clarification and hopefully set things moving. Or,instead of using the normal Hattons channels of communication,to directly e mail Hattons senior management or even M.D.There is a problem. They know of it. It is only right that they take some steps to sort it out in a sensible manner.No one is being aggressive about it. We just need something to happen.

[toboldlygo]

While it seems there are quite a few with problems, it is also likely that the only people posting are those with issues rather than those that haven't. 

 

I have run my Garratt quite extensively now, both bunker first and chimney first with no issues in terms of the gear train or anything else.  I will note that both of my Hornby Black 5s locked up within a couple of hours of running because of the way the valve gear was set up, and I have had a Hornby A3 also do this to me.  If my Garratt locked up, I would probably investigate the fault first, as a) it's a long way from Aus to Liverpool to send it back and B) I don't mind doing repairs myself, as a matter of fact, I used to have to do repairs on a lot of my US rollingstock from time to time, including broken axle gears, faulty motors and the like, even on $1000 brass locos.  

 

Has anyone else actually investigated the cause of the problem instead of asking Hattons?   One thing that I haven't been doing with my Garratt is any real fast running.  I did when running it in, but now I run it at around 20-30 mph.  I'm not sure if that makes any difference, but when a friend of mine's early LMS one locked up, it was at speed and the worm gear that had popped out of it's housing.  Simply lifting off the tank, re-seating it and screwing the tank down meant all was fixed in fairly short order.

 

Cheers

Tony

 

I think you may of hit the nail on the proverbial head there Tony, with regards the valve gear causing the lock ups. It jogged my memory on to something I'd noticed about the valve gear on the BG, the valve gear isn't fixed in place at the water tank end and potentially be the root cause of the lock ups that are burning motors out.

 

 

(the arrow is pointing to the part of the valve gear that has horizontal movement & shouldn't)

[Rail-Online]

I think you may of hit the nail on the proverbial head there Tony, with regards the valve gear causing the lock ups. It jogged my memory on to something I'd noticed about the valve gear on the BG, the valve gear isn't fixed in place at the water tank end and potentially be the root cause of the lock ups that are burning motors out.

 

bg.jpg

 

(the arrow is pointing to the part of the valve gear that has horizontal movement & shouldn't)

Just for clarity, it is called the Radius Bar on the real thing.

 

On one of mine it was completely loose when it first arrived.

 

Tony

[trw1089]

I think you may of hit the nail on the proverbial head there Tony, with regards the valve gear causing the lock ups. It jogged my memory on to something I'd noticed about the valve gear on the BG, the valve gear isn't fixed in place at the water tank end and potentially be the root cause of the lock ups that are burning motors out.

 

bg.jpg

 

(the arrow is pointing to the part of the valve gear that has horizontal movement & shouldn't)

Yes, that is something that I have observed on mine too with the radius rod on the front motor unit when running at scale speed, and if at speed could cause enough force to damage or pop out the gear train. This might also cause the whole gear train to bind if the gears misalign, or if power is continued to be applied, motor burnout (are the coreless motors, they really don't enjoy excessive current.

 

It would be ver easy to identify on a locked up version. The valve gear should still be moveable to a little degree if the gear train is at fault, but the valve gear itself will be solid and unmovable if that is where the bind is.

 

Hopefully someone can report if they still have one locked up.

 

Cheers

Tony

[JSpencer]

I would have thought that if this was the case, the valve gear would bind first before the gear train would snap or dislocate. Unless the gears are very thin in section of course.

 

Agree the extra load will not be liked by the coreless motor.

 

The Bachmann K3 has a working radias rod and causes very bad running each time it misalign

[Grovenor]

I found one loose radius rod on mine, looking at them, they are only held in place by friction of the valve rod in the valve chest, all that is needed to hold it in place is a dab of paint or glue on the valve rod where it enters the valve chest. Even loose it is hard to see how it would cause the gear to jam. I would be more suspicious of the excessive sideplay on the driving wheels, especially the front set which is enough to let the crankpins foul the rear of the crossheads.

Regards

Keith

[cheesysmith]

My father has 2 of these, and having no where to run them at the moment, and only having the Hornby rolling road, brought the rotating bunker one to my place to test it on my rolling road. I gave it a quick run, only a few mins in each direction, and noticed that the front unit was rotating slower than the rear power unit. When tested even slower the front power unit exhibited a momentary lock up. The radius bar as discribed above is loose and can move. the bg has been packed away at the moment, but if there was some friction in the drivetrain, or something causing the momentary lock ups, would not this cause the problem with the motor burning out? I'm only asking as with the motors wired together, one operating slower and/or under greater load would cause the coreless motor to burn out?

[JSpencer]

My father has 2 of these, and having no where to run them at the moment, and only having the Hornby rolling road, brought the rotating bunker one to my place to test it on my rolling road. I gave it a quick run, only a few mins in each direction, and noticed that the front unit was rotating slower than the rear power unit. When tested even slower the front power unit exhibited a momentary lock up. The radius bar as discribed above is loose and can move. the bg has been packed away at the moment, but if there was some friction in the drivetrain, or something causing the momentary lock ups, would not this cause the problem with the motor burning out? I'm only asking as with the motors wired together, one operating slower and/or under greater load would cause the coreless motor to burn out?

Yes the motors would burn out eventually from the indifférence.before that happens, the end which has slowed down will lock up permanently looking at experience on this board.

[Colin_McLeod]

Are these problems occuring in dc or dcc or both. If dcc only could there be an issue with two motors controlled by one chip?

[JSpencer]

Are these problems occuring in dc or dcc or both. If dcc only could there be an issue with two motors controlled by one chip?

The vast bulk seem to have died while under classic analogue control, mind you there are probably not many converted to DCC.

[ccawood]

Are these problems occuring in dc or dcc or both. If dcc only could there be an issue with two motors controlled by one chip?

First time post here, but I think I should add my bit as I too have had Garratt issues. My Garratt died whilst under dc control. The forward unit ceased to work.

I made the mistake of returning the loco to Hattons (at considerable expense as I am overseas). The replacement they sent was in very poor cosmetic condition (bent valve gear, broken steps, broken foot plate). I haven't attempted to run it as I am debating repairing it or going through the expense of returning it again. I have emailed Hattons, and eagerly await how they are going to resolve the issue.

[SJR]

First time post here, but I think I should add my bit as I too have had Garratt issues. My Garratt died whilst under dc control. The forward unit ceased to work.

I made the mistake of returning the loco to Hattons (at considerable expense as I am overseas). The replacement they sent was in very poor cosmetic condition (bent valve gear, broken steps, broken foot plate). I haven't attempted to run it as I am debating repairing it or going through the expense of returning it again. I have emailed Hattons, and eagerly await how they are going to resolve the issue.

Hattons will refund your postage but you do have to ask. They have done so for me on several occasions.

Cheers

Simon

[cctransuk]

In view of the continuing silence from Liverpool. I have today sent another contact form (below).

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

 

I refer to the contact form sent to you in mid-Ocober, and to your response of 16/10/14; (below).

I have received no further communication from you or your colleagues; I trust that you are now in a position to give a full response to my enquiry.

Regards,
C. J. Isherwood.



Dear John,
 
Thank you for your email.
 
I will pass this on to one of my colleagues who will certainly look into this matter. If we have any information then we will pass this on.
 
I hope this helps but if you need any further assistance, please don't hesitate to get in touch.
 
Kind regards,
 
Michael Carney
Retail Assistant
 

NAME: C. J. Isherwood
EMAIL: cctrans@hotmail.com
PHONE: 01208892868
ORDER OR INVOICE NUMBER:
 
CUSTOMER WOULD LIKE A REPLY: Yes
 
NATURE OF ENQUIRY: Request Information
 
ENQUIRY:
I purchased one of your Beyer-Garratt exclusive models when they were released, and have so far only been able to carry out limited running on my short test track. It is likely to be some years before I can carry out extended running.
 
I am reading on RMweb that there have been a consiiderable number of motor failures with these models, usually after extended running.
 
Given the apparent frequency of these failures, I would imagine that you have, by now, established the cause(s).
 
It would be most helpful if you could, via RMweb, advise your findings regarding these failures. If there are measures that owners can take to avoid future problems, that information could also be mutually helpful.
 
Regards,
John Isherwood.

[Colin_McLeod]

I have today also sent an inquiry to Hattons, quoting my order number. The text is based on John's enquiry:

 

 

 

I purchased one of your Beyer-Garratt models when they were released, and have so far only been able to carry out limited running on my partially completed layout. It will be some time before I can carry out extended running.
 
I am aware from other railway modellers that there have been a considerable number of motor failures and/or locomotives "locking up" when they have been run for a number of hours.
 
Given the apparent frequency of these failures, I would imagine that you have, by now, established the cause(s).
 
It would be most helpful if you could advise me what the cause is and if there are measures that I can take to avoid future problems.
Many thanks
Colin McLeod

[cctransuk]

In view of the continuing silence from Liverpool. I have today sent another contact form (below).

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

 

I refer to the contact form sent to you in mid-Ocober, and to your response of 16/10/14; (below).

 

I have received no further communication from you or your colleagues; I trust that you are now in a position to give a full response to my enquiry.

 

Regards,

C. J. Isherwood.

 

 

 

Dear John,

 

Thank you for your email.

 

I will pass this on to one of my colleagues who will certainly look into this matter. If we have any information then we will pass this on.

 

I hope this helps but if you need any further assistance, please don't hesitate to get in touch.

 

Kind regards,

 

Michael Carney

Retail Assistant

 

 

NAME: C. J. Isherwood

EMAIL: cctrans@hotmail.com

PHONE: 01208892868

ORDER OR INVOICE NUMBER:

 

CUSTOMER WOULD LIKE A REPLY: Yes

 

NATURE OF ENQUIRY: Request Information

 

ENQUIRY:

I purchased one of your Beyer-Garratt exclusive models when they were released, and have so far only been able to carry out limited running on my short test track. It is likely to be some years before I can carry out extended running.

 

I am reading on RMweb that there have been a consiiderable number of motor failures with these models, usually after extended running.

 

Given the apparent frequency of these failures, I would imagine that you have, by now, established the cause(s).

 

It would be most helpful if you could, via RMweb, advise your findings regarding these failures. If there are measures that owners can take to avoid future problems, that information could also be mutually helpful.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

 

I am pleased to report that I received a telephone call from Hattons within minutes of posting my second contact form to them.

 

Let me say from the outset that I found the technician to whom I spoke perfectly open, frank and extremely helpful. I have confidence in what he told me, and I do not believe that there has been any form of cover-up.

 

The information that I received can be summarised as follows :-

 

Hattons have read the postings to this thread, but do not as a matter of policy post responses to web group threads;

 

there have been a number of Hattons' Garratts returned as non-runners, reportedly after some period of normal running, but not a higher percentage than for previous Hattons' exclusive productions;

 

the causes of the failures have been found to include burned-out motors, misplaced transmission components, mis-moulded gears, deformed valve-gear, etc.; but no consistent factor can be identified as being the predominant factor. To what extend the burned-out motors have been caused by any of the other defects cannot be ascertained.

 

I raised my problem that I will be unable to subject my model to sustained running for some considerable time, and that I was worried that I may eventually suffer a failure after the normal guarantee period has expired. I was assured that, being a Hattons' exclusive product, the terms of the guarantee would be interpreted rather more flexibly than would be the case with a third party products. It was stated that, subject to replacement components being in stock / obtainable, all possible efforts to assist in remedying future failures would be made.

 

With these assurances, I am now happy that, though my Garratt can only currently pace up and down my test track, any problems arising from future sustained running will receive sympathetic attention from Hattons.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Ian Hargrave]

Thank you for your trouble in attempting to address the situation. I would have to say that the response does not give me any confidence in a purchase of a BG any time soon.In fact,quite the reverse.

[cctransuk]

Thank you for your trouble in attempting to address the situation. I would have to say that the response does not give me any confidence in a purchase of a BG any time soon.In fact,quite the reverse.

 

Ian,

 

That must be your personal decision, but I have to say that I feel much more reassured about the future of my own (as yet problem-free) Garratt.

 

Those who know me will confirm that I can reasonably be classified as a cynical, grumpy old man, with a very sceptical view of current retail practices.

 

Nonetheless, I do accept Hattons' assertions that the failure rate is not higher than with previous exclusive models, and that no consistent cause can be identified for the failures that have been reported.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.