RMweb Premium Peter Beckett Posted November 19, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 19, 2014 John, The micro can motor is 12mm dia and 30mm length and the upper and lower castings support it OK. The drive shaft is 1.5mm. If you can't get a motor that small, I guess the castings could be milled to suit but a lot of work seeing it has to done twice. The following motor has the right dimensions but not the voltage ratings http://kinmoremotor.manufacturer.globalsources.com/si/6008836310204/pdtl/Micro-motor/1110328729/Micro-Motor.htm I did find the correct motor but did not save the url Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted November 19, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 19, 2014 Which is fine,provided you can afford to shell out the extra cash,have the facility,dexterity an eyesight to carry out the remotoring without structural damage to the model and provided the loco will work effectively with the excellent Mashimas in place. A good many of us are not blessed with some or any of the above.What is the point of any model,let alone this particular one,if it cannot be relied upon to run without failing and the first necessary step means another £40 expenditure ? I applaud what you propose to do and admire your ability to do so. With great respect,I cannot consider this to be an appropriate way forward .It presents Hattons and Heljan with a get-out-of-gaol opportunity of a d-i-y job. Please also consider Heljan's previous own goal with the motors originally provided for the ill-fated Clayton. They did provide replacement motors for that. Hattons and Heljan should be held to account for the current situation and offer a free remotoring service with a product that IS fit-for-purpose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Peter Beckett Posted November 19, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 19, 2014 Ian, I fully agree which is why this statement was included in my fault diagnosis. "Which again gets back to Hattons solution to the problem ie send replacement parts which does not fix the problem. Sooner or later they must run out of spare parts and the warranty date expires. What no one has heard yet, what is the parent factory doing about it?" Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 I did find the correct motor but did not save the url Peter http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-15000RPM-Micro-High-power-DC-Motor-1230-N60-2535-12mmx40mm-/121491379511?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item1c49735537 Although my Garratt is still working, I've ordered a couple of these worth a punt for the price. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted November 19, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 19, 2014 Ian, I fully agree which is why this statement was included in my fault diagnosis. "Which again gets back to Hattons solution to the problem ie send replacement parts which does not fix the problem. Sooner or later they must run out of spare parts and the warranty date expires. What no one has heard yet, what is the parent factory doing about it?" Peter And thanks to you for finally providing a cogent diagnosis for the problem.The perceived wisdom up to now was that they were coreless motors. Thankfully,you have dispelled that myth.From Hattons,it seems,the rest is silence. I'd love to run one but this is so wrong----plain wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-15000RPM-Micro-High-power-DC-Motor-1230-N60-2535-12mmx40mm-/121491379511?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item1c49735537 Although my Garratt is still working, I've ordered a couple of these worth a punt for the price. Worth getting a few at £1.50 a pop. You could corner the market in re-motoring BGs at that price. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 ...The micro can motor is 12mm dia and 30mm length and the upper and lower castings support it OK. The drive shaft is 1.5mm... Bravo Peter, it's good to read that someone has had one apart to get at the facts. Not coreless after all, but a three pole round can. The external can dimensions quoted are a match to the three pole round can (the Heljan leaflet says it is three pole, I have not had one apart) that very satisfactorily powers the two class 15s I have, shown as part number 56 on the same leaflet's assembly diagram for the class 15. Cannot easily confirm the shaft diameter, but it looks right for 1,5mm (Likely the class 16 model will also have this motor.) That of course doesn't mean it is the same motor as in the B-G model, but I'd reckon there's a fair chance... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250BOB Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Is it the same can motor as Heljan fitted to the Class 17 Clayton.................I had problems with mine, and burnt out two motors.....replaced it with a mashima motor eventually...ran perfectly eversince. Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Worth getting a few at £1.50 a pop. You could corner the market in re-motoring BGs at that price. OzzyO. Looks like there has been a sudden rush, 21 sold in 24 hrs. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted November 20, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 20, 2014 I bought four. Too good to resist, yet not too dear if they don't work out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted November 20, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 20, 2014 They are now down to the last one with 30 sold in the last 24 hours. Oh the power of RMweb Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Re6/6 Posted November 20, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 20, 2014 (edited) Being as I'll have to pull the whole thing apart to do the conversion the assurance of fitting two motors of known quality and design will be the way to go for me. Two of these, http://www.roxeymouldings.co.uk/product/334/mashima-mhk1024/ although 6 mm short will probably do the trick with maybe room to fit a couple of flywheels as a bonus. Edited November 20, 2014 by Re6/6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Cheaper here http://www.highlevelkits.co.uk The only problem with remotoring is the guarantee will be invalid. Hattons should be doing this not the buyer. A similar problem ( for some owners ) and same solution on the Hornby P2 will again invalidate the guarantee again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Being as I'll have to pull the whole thing apart to do the conversion the assurance of fitting two motors of known quality and design will be the way to go for me. Two of these, http://www.roxeymouldings.co.uk/product/334/mashima-mhk1024/ although 6 mm short will probably do the trick with maybe room to fit a couple of flywheels as a bonus. They already have flywheels which are 11 mm long and you would need to cut the rear shaft short anyway, an extra 4mm flywheel does not seem worth the extra effort. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted November 20, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 20, 2014 Cheaper here http://www.highlevelkits.co.uk The only problem with remotoring is the guarantee will be invalid. Hattons should be doing this not the buyer. A similar problem ( for some owners ) and same solution on the Hornby P2 will again invalidate the guarantee again. By seeking solutions to this problem ourselves,we are in danger of losing the plot.This is not in our remit.That is entirely for Hattons/Heljan to address.....and efforts should be made to ensure they fulfil that obligation.,otherwise we make a nonsense of the customer/retailer relationship. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted November 20, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 20, 2014 On the other hand, as railway modellers replacing a motor is one of the things we used to do to improve RTR locomotives. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdaley Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Tonight I fitted a decoder to the loco. programmed it & ran it on my layout gently at low speed for about ten minutes in each direction. Suddenly it stopped. I removed the loco & placed it on my program track & was able to read the decoder & loco address. I removed the decoder & placed the loco on my rolling road. One end ran briefly but there was no motion from the tank end of the loco.Then the bunker end stopped. I removed the loco from the track & placed it back in its box. Its going back tomorrow as another failure. Hattons must have quite a collection now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 By seeking solutions to this problem ourselves,we are in danger of losing the plot.This is not in our remit.That is entirely for Hattons/Heljan to address.....and efforts should be made to ensure they fulfil that obligation.,otherwise we make a nonsense of the customer/retailer relationship. We have free choice in these matters, having purchased the loco its my choice to alter it as I wish, and to decide, in the event of any failure whether I should take up the warranty or use my own skills to fix it myself. Mine has not failed yet, and next time it leaves its box it will be to be rewheeled for P4. After that I will be unlikely to send it back but would chase the supplier for a replacement motor should it fail. Regards Keith 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Re6/6 Posted November 21, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 21, 2014 (edited) Cheaper here http://www.highlevelkits.co.uk The only problem with remotoring is the guarantee will be invalid. Hattons should be doing this not the buyer. Thanks for that. A good saving. As it's going to be re-wheeled and with the fixing of the 'ledge inaccuracy' any guarantee would be out the window anyway! I do however see the point for those who aren't altering it in any way. Edited November 21, 2014 by Re6/6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted November 21, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 21, 2014 On the other hand, as railway modellers replacing a motor is one of the things we used to do to improve RTR locomotives. Agreed Colin but there is a clear difference between improving and replacing something that is in itself defective.From what I have seen for myself and read on this forum,the performance of the model when it runs is excellent.By all means buyers can exercise their own choice.For me,that would be skating on thin ice and misses the point.It invalidates the warranty and absolves Hattons of the responsibility to start being proactive in the matter.As yet,I have read nothing on this topic that reassures me that they are doing more than churning out replacements. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdaley Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Mine went back to Liverpool this morning. I had run it in on a rolling road for about an hour in each direction & it seemed fine. Fitted a decoder last night but it failed after only ten minutes on the layout. It was lovely loco & ran very well up to failure. Getting a refund as I'm not prepared for parcels going back & forth to Liverpool every couple of weeks. Disappointed to see it end like this after such a long wait for it to arrive. First ordered it in Aug 2011. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted November 23, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 23, 2014 By seeking solutions to this problem ourselves,we are in danger of losing the plot.This is not in our remit.That is entirely for Hattons/Heljan to address.....and efforts should be made to ensure they fulfil that obligation.,otherwise we make a nonsense of the customer/retailer relationship.I see I have gained another badge of distinction from the redoubtable Mr. Cram. I appear to have quite a substantial collection from him. So,then perhaps Mr. Cram you would care to explain at some length your reasons for this and your proposals for a way forward ? I look forward to hearing from you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdaley Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 I would ask for opinion here as to why these problems weren't spotted during the testing stage or was there a testing stage ? I would have thought that a few of these BG's would be run extensively before selling them to the public. If they were then surely any major problems would show up ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Accurascale Fran Posted November 23, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 23, 2014 Mine is going back across the Irish sea too. Sad, as when she was running at first my jaw was on the floor with the performance and smoothness of the running, but after a while it all came to a juddering halt. Going to take a replacement as I dearly want one that works properly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Peter Beckett Posted November 23, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 23, 2014 My front end and dud motor was posted at Hastings Post Office on Tues 18 Nov 11.10 am. It arrived at Langley (GB) on 20 Nov 14.25. It was delivered to Smiffdown Rd on 21 Nov at 0940. That must be a near record from OZ to GB. (and its all uphill ) Now for Hattons to do their part. An included reason for the motor failure would be nice but I am not holding my breath. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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