Grovenor Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 (edited) It has been a while since my last posting or should I say moan on this thread, my last post was about the continuing problem of locked up motors on these models, well after exchanging 266209 (47975) and more than 15 hours of trouble free running in the inevitable has just happend, yes, the front motor has given up the ghost and has locked up ! I really am completely fed up with this continuing and frustrating problem, how many more times do I need to travel to Liverpool for a replacement model ? It would seem, from the amount of replacements you have been getting that you would be well placed to ask Hattons for an explanation of this problem, as others are saying this could be anything from wires disconnected to complete motor failure, "locked up" to me would imply a mechanical problem but I suspect you just mean "stopped". Have Hattons not given you any clue? Mine has to be converted to P4 and there is no way I can spend the time giving it 15 or more hours running before I start on the conversion. I did get a bit of 00 track and have run it for about an hour so far without problems but the thought that I could put all the effort into conversion just to have it fail shortly afterwards is not encouraging. But if, for example I knew that it was failing motors which I could replace I would be much happier. Regards Keith Edited October 16, 2014 by Grovenor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david12345 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Father in laws failed on the rolling road after 1.5 hours. The Rolling road was covered in brass swarf. No idea where it came from. Motor was completely seized. Glad it happened before it was chipped up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 The plot thickens.... What can cause a load of brass swarf? Was the motor cover taken off to see if it was seized? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted October 15, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 15, 2014 Was anything rubbing on the flywheel causing brass to be removed, also also overloading the motor? It would be interesting to see whether the motor was burnt out due to overheating, or physically seized up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MCMLXI Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 having received my 'Heavily weathered' Garratt - and being mighty impressed with the loco, but disapointed with the paint job, it was sent off straight away for some treatment ! -......... it's back............ joe 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) having received my 'Heavily weathered' Garratt - and being mighty impressed with the loco, but disapointed with the paint job, it was sent off straight away for some treatment ! -......... it's back............ joe Is it an adult video? It says it's private. Edited October 16, 2014 by bigherb 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MCMLXI Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 ooops . Apologies. Should be public now! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) At the start of the year, new Bachmann class 40s had lots of problems. Although impressed by a magazine review, I avoided buying 1 right away for those reasons. Bachmann then explained what the problem was and how they could be fixed. Suddenly class 40s were all fine and I am very glad to say I brought the blue one + fitted sound. Most capable modelers could then fix the 40 themselves if they preferred knowing exactly what they had to do. Now at the end of the year, given the number of BG's all developing the same problem, I feel it would certainly be appreciated by many to know what it is and how it can be fixed/avoided. Edited October 16, 2014 by JSpencer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted October 16, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 16, 2014 Much as I admire the model and the fact that we have one at all....and thanks to Hattons for the bravery of their initiative....I cannot possibly buy a model with the notoriety of failure on the scale it now appears to be.The disconcerting thing is that problems occur after it has been running for an extended period.If you do get a problem,it usually occurs straight out of the box.Spooky ! Is it a design fault, a component fault or an assembly fault.? Hattons may just feel that the only way to address the problem is a replacement. It is probably uneconomic for them,given the tight budget that there must be on it,to seek a redress factory side.The 'magic bullet' of a cure isn't happening. A great shame. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Anyone near Cambs had a failure? Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) Much as I admire the model and the fact that we have one at all....and thanks to Hattons for the bravery of their initiative....I cannot possibly buy a model with the notoriety of failure on the scale it now appears to be.The disconcerting thing is that problems occur after it has been running for an extended period.If you do get a problem,it usually occurs straight out of the box.Spooky ! Is it a design fault, a component fault or an assembly fault.? Hattons may just feel that the only way to address the problem is a replacement. It is probably uneconomic for them,given the tight budget that there must be on it,to seek a redress factory side.The 'magic bullet' of a cure isn't happening. A great shame. Being concerned about the reported failures, I have just sent the following e-mail to Hattons; I will report any response. "I purchased one of your Beyer-Garratt exclusive models when they were released, and have so far only been able to carry out limited running on my short test track. It is likely to be some years before I can carry out extended running. I am reading on RMweb that there have been a considerable number of motor failures with these models, usually after extended running. Given the apparent frequency of these failures, I would imagine that you have, by now, established the cause(s). It would be most helpful if you could, via RMweb, advise your findings regarding these failures. If there are measures that owners can take to avoid future problems, that information could also be mutually helpful". Regards, John Isherwood. Edited October 16, 2014 by cctransuk 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david12345 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Further to my earlier post, we didn't delve to deeply into what the problem was but packaged it up and returned it for replacement. We were told it needed a new motor at one end and it was returned to my father in law however the replacement also had cosmetic faults and broken pickups. So it has been returned for a refund. Further to my earlier post, we didn't delve to deeply into what the problem was but packaged it up and returned it for replacement. We were told it needed a new motor at one end and it was returned to my father in law however the replacement also had cosmetic faults and broken pickups. So it has been returned for a refund. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 ...Mine has to be converted to P4 and there is no way I can spend the time giving it 15 or more hours running before I start on the conversion. I did get a bit of 00 track and have run it for about an hour so far without problems but the thought that I could put all the effort into conversion just to have it fail shortly afterwards is not encouraging. But if, for example I knew that it was failing motors which I could replace I would be much happier. Keith, you might want to take a look at Issue 1 of Finescale Railway Modelling Review. Pete Hill dissects one to convert it to EM. The model is really very complex. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Keith, you might want to take a look at Issue 1 of Finescale Railway Modelling Review Already studied at some length, and discussed with Pete and Colin at Scaleforum. Regards Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Should have known you were on top of this. Still, the info might be of use to others. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
corax67 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I'm late to this particular party but last Friday my fellow layout operator produced his birthday present - one of the Beyer Garratt models (not sure which one) that had been on order 2 years - with a flourish and huge smile of joy & expectation. Having assembled our exhibition layout, a 4 track 12'x8' tail chaser, we tested as usual with a variety of Hornby & Bachmann stock from 08's to A4's and everything in-between on the DC lines for around an hour without issue. My friend was itching to run his Beyer so we thought we'd give it a go, straight out of the box it looked stunning & we popped it on the outermost loop - 42" radius - and began a gentle running in. Controller is a Gaugemaster Model Q. The loco ran for just 10 minutes before the entire front end locked solid ! We were gutted & it was scheduled for a call to Hattons last Monday with a prompt return. Neither of us were aware of this issue prior to our running it as it's a model I would never choose to have as it's way to big for my layout & my friend isn't on RMWeb but we were thoroughly shocked when a show visitor told us his had gone the same way and he was now on his third. Heljan isn't covering itself in glory with quality and reliability - the last one I bought was a Class 17 and we all know what happened with those. Very disappointing from a modern manufacturer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Hawkins Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 As many of you know, i have posted many times on this thread about the locking up of motors on the BG and as many of you also know only to well, i'm extreamly fed up with these faults, i have all twelve of these models, and to date i have had to return six or seven BG's to Hattons (I'm unsure to be honest as i have lost count) i have never had a problem with the "Locking up" of motors with the BG's straight out of the box, it always seem to happen after several hours of running in the model (5-20), normally after a running session and all seeming to be fine, i retire for the night and the next day i set the ball rolling again and disaster ! all my faults with the "Locking up" of motors has been with the motor under the water tank except on one occasion when the fault occurred with the motor under the tender, i'm not prepared to take the model apart as i have absolutely no idea what to look for. I would like to thank John Isherwood for e-mailing Hattons to explain to them the problems that many of us has suffered with the BG, thanks John, i look forward to what Hattons have to say on this subject. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Being concerned about the reported failures, I have just sent the following e-mail to Hattons; I will report any response. "I purchased one of your Beyer-Garratt exclusive models when they were released, and have so far only been able to carry out limited running on my short test track. It is likely to be some years before I can carry out extended running. I am reading on RMweb that there have been a considerable number of motor failures with these models, usually after extended running. Given the apparent frequency of these failures, I would imagine that you have, by now, established the cause(s). It would be most helpful if you could, via RMweb, advise your findings regarding these failures. If there are measures that owners can take to avoid future problems, that information could also be mutually helpful". Regards, John Isherwood. Just an update - apart from the standard acknowledgement, no reply has been forthcoming to date. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 As many of you know, i have posted many times on this thread about the locking up of motors on the BG and as many of you also know only to well, i'm extreamly fed up with these faults, i have all twelve of these models, and to date i have had to return six or seven BG's to Hattons (I'm unsure to be honest as i have lost count) i have never had a problem with the "Locking up" of motors with the BG's straight out of the box, it always seem to happen after several hours of running in the model (5-20), normally after a running session and all seeming to be fine, i retire for the night and the next day i set the ball rolling again and disaster ! all my faults with the "Locking up" of motors has been with the motor under the water tank except on one occasion when the fault occurred with the motor under the tender, i'm not prepared to take the model apart as i have absolutely no idea what to look for. I would like to thank John Isherwood for e-mailing Hattons to explain to them the problems that many of us has suffered with the BG, thanks John, i look forward to what Hattons have to say on this subject. Were they being run mainly water tank first? I wonder if the other end would lock up first if they were run mainly bunker first? Sounds like a gear train issue, maybe a shaft or bearing holding a gear is distorting then snapping. I have a cheap orient express Atlantic which seized up solid after the first minute but this was due to the cheap motor and gear train (the same motor used in Hornby's P2!). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Hawkins Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 All the locking up of the motors occurred during running water tank first, still waiting with baited breath of news from Hattons as to exactly what is causing this infuriating fault. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted October 20, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) Perhaps we should all ask Hattons if John does not get a response in a reasonable time. The sheer volume of queries may make them sit up. Alternatively, has anyone asked Heljan direct? I know the purchase contract is with Hattons, but its Heljan who have the resources to rectify this problem. Edited October 20, 2014 by Colin_McLeod 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Perhaps we should all ask Hattons if John does not get a response in a reasonable time. The sheer volume of queries may make them sit up. Alternatively, has anyone asked Heljan direct? I know the purchase contract is with Hattons, but its Heljan who have the resources to rectify this problem. I think that, as a last resort, that's a good idea. However, let's wait until a week after I sent them my query - I feel that it would be reasonable to expect more than just an acknowledgement within a week. I'll get back to you all at the end of the week, unless I hear anything in the meantime. Regards, John Isherwood. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Perhaps we should all ask Hattons if John does not get a response in a reasonable time. The sheer volume of queries may make them sit up. If the returns ratio reported on here of close to 50% is being replicated more generally then I would imagine they are already sitting bolt upright. Where are they finding the replacement locos? This must be destroying their profit margin for such a limited run loco unless its really a very easy fix and they are just recycling them. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Has anyone succeeded in running theirs for more than 20 hours? If Hattons are recycling the rejects (which we do not know), that would imply a defined fixing process. Remember Bachmann only explained what they were doing with the 40s to resolve the issue but in no way suggested that we should do the same! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Hawkins Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I think one of my Garratts was running fine for around the 20 hour mark before the inevitable happened, the first time I took one back a member of staff tested it on their test track to confirm it did indeed have a motor problem, the other six visits I have made to Hattons they didn't even test the model, they simply handed me over a replacement model, so I feel with that kind of service they have had one hell of a lot of returns with this fault. I really hope Hattons reply to the e-mail that John Isherwood sent them because I for one would really like to know what is causing this fault and wether their is a simple solution that we can rectify. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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