Heljan Beyer garratt

[Grovenor]

The pony trucks have a ridiculous amount of sideplay and hence easily get out of line with the track, you may well find that adding some washers on each end of the axle will solve the problem, failing that a bit of lead (car tyre sellers usually have lots of scrap from balancing wheels) and a tube of glue will allow you to make your own weight, you don't have to wait for a ready made one.

Keith

Edited December 16, 2014 by Grovenor

[expattamy]

Just noticed on Hattons preowned site that they have listed a beyer garratt in preowned near mint condition for £160 Limited stock available of ex LMS 7983 .

One of many of the returned models do you think?

Just to add to the many posts on this subject, i ordered 4 of them i returned the first 2 and asked for a full refund and then cancelled the other 2, i have only just come across these postings on the Beyer's and i felt a little guilty when i cancelled them but now i have read all the posts, i am feeling not so guilty.

After nearly 40 years in railway modelling my gut told me that these models where not going to be any good.

[Catweasel]

One of our club members had one running on the club layout for 2 1/2 hours with 35 bogie wagons behind. Result? No problems. Bit sick of chuff chuff at the end of it though.

[robmcg]

I have one; like many models nowadays some small bits fell off, but as I was handling it rather a lot I'm not surprised. Easily fixed though, I expect that nowadays anyway with the fragility of modern builds. Not talking Hornby-Dublo here! I have run it back and forth a fair bit on my layout (about 18', nowhere to go beyond that yet) through complex trackwork and am more than happy with it. I then stripped it right down to its component parts, so that it could be sprayed and dirtied. Re-assembly involved stripping out unnecessary (to me) lights and DCC wiring, so that it became a much simpler wired loco for DC.

As for cost? To me it is 2x loco, at £100 each. Not excessive, probably a tad cheaper than a new loco (ie one end) would cost today. Complexity? Noooo - a simple 2-6-0 with outside valve gear, and somewhat plainer "body". 2x Bachhy 76xxx without tenders seem more complex and fiddly to me. Yes, together, it is a big beast. Not a newbie for Heljan, they have done steam before.

Dodgy motor? I honestly don't know, but having heard of valve gear jamming, I really think that is more likely; when seized, and this is important, if power is kept on, most motors would fail. Agreed if you see it stop, you switch off. I also saw evidence on mine of poor electrical connections when I stripped it down. As I work in electronics, I am aware of what to look for there. Though none of mine failed in service, it is possible they would have, though I will never know as I have totally rewired it.

Should Hattons investigate? Well production is finished, so what would be gained there? If the quality overall is poor, worst case is they could refund everone's cash and take the hit. but we really don't know how many faults they have had (we are only really hearing of faults on here, not of the total build), To their credit, they are replacing locos, or refunding. They probably are repairing them too if they have a simple fault.. How many retailers do that and never tell you the original fault, in all lines of goods sold?

Bottom line, 1) do I regret the purchase? NO.

                   2) Would I buy more? YES, but I have no need for any.

 

Stewart

Thankyou Stewart and excellent post and very much in accord with what to expect from one of these models. I have seven (mad collector weakness in operation) and have had nothing fall off except front tank caps. I have run mine on a short test track, and all seem smooth and even, right from brand new. One model has a poorly fitted cab, a couple of degrees from horizontal on one side. Front-rear footrests can rotate/fall off easily. The lightly weathered versions seem to me to be nicest on the eye, the 'heavily weathered' is a bit too vague and random and not nearly dirty enough.

 

In general I see no major faults beyond some assembly issues, and that might lead to valve gear/motor seizures, I wouldn't leave a model un-attended and running anyway.

 

I just bought a £160 s/h LMS 7983 from Hattons, 4 left in stock, it said. 'As new' and if it is a return at least it will have been checked. One pic showed the bunker correctly near the back of the cab, one photo with it too far back, as can easily happen, but I still think it's good value. I'll re-number it I think.

 

here is my earlier pic of this model. £160 is actually £132 to me, less VAT ... how can you refuse?

 

[Ian Hargrave]

Well done,Rob. Good Luck !

[robmcg]

Thanks Ian, Hattons are doing quite well out of me at the moment, I just picked up a 7202 GWR unlined green heavy tank 2-8-2T... but demurred on the K1 thinking that the weathered version next year would be more to my taste.

 

but off thread again!

 

Cheers, (quiet cup of tea on a misty wet summer day here)

 

Rob

[Stevelewis]

The pony trucks have a ridiculous amount of sideplay and hence easily get out of line with the track, you may well find that adding some washers on each end of the axle will solve the problem, failing that a bit of lead (car tyre sellers usually have lots of scrap from balancing wheels) and a tube of glue will allow you to make your own weight, you don't have to wait for a ready made one.

Keith

Lead/heavy metal  weights  which  are  easily fettled  to  your  required  size?  Try  an  Angling  Supplies  shop  they  usually  have  a  vast  range   from  tiny lead  shot, to  large  sea  fishing  weights!

I am  lucky enough to  have  one in the  town where I live, wish it  was  a  model  shop though!!

[Gordon A]

I collected my BR Garrat from my neighbour this evening.

All the bits still stuck on and the additional bits in three packets.

 

Test running tomorrow and the weekend.

 

Gordon A

Bristol

[SpenceHa]

Hello all-

 

First post here.  I've been getting great information from the boards here since I stumbled on them last year, thank you all for the fantastic comments, observations, and information.  As an American who models British steam (primarily LNER and GWR) here in the states, getting ahold of equipment is always interesting to say the least, and not without its challenges.  But it's a labor of love, and I have managed to put together a fair old collection I'm very happy with, and enjoy turning heads and dropping the foaming jaws of the American "know-it-alls" and rivet counters while running my locos on the American layout at my local club

 

I had been looking at the Heljan Garratts with great interest; it is a fascinating loco, but even though it's a fairly reasonable price for that much loco (flaws which have been discussed here notwithstanding...) it's a bit out of my price range.  Plus, when I was able to put enough aside for one, they had sold out of the non-rotary bunker models, which is what I was hoping for.  To my surprise, I happened to check eHattons on a whim last Wednesday, and they had for offer LMS #4970 with standard bunker in pristine (listed as "pre-owned, as new"), the very loco I was hoping for!  With a few key strokes, I bade good-bye to a pile of cash, and crossed my fingers everything would go to plan.  It was listed for 210, rather than 199, and I didn't feel the extra 11 was too off the mark for a loco that was not going to be easily found elsewhere.

 

Since then, I have read the entirety of this thread while waiting on the beast to arrive state side (which looks like it may be shortly after Christmas by the tracking info).  I'll certainly post my impressions, etc. once it arrives, and how she operates.

 

Do you think this loco I've now ordered could be a "re-furbished" one that was returned with issues?  If that's the case, I'm wondering if perhaps I may have a better chance of acquiring a good runner, as (in theory, at least), if it's a pre-owned, it would have been tested to be sure it was in good working order, and I would think Hattons would have at lease made at least reasonably sure that in light of the problems which have been brought to their attention, they wouldn't knowingly send out a "lemon", especially if it was a return at some earlier point.

 

What do you think?  Am I being overly optimistic? 

[Gordon A]

I collected my BR Garrat from my neighbour this evening.

All the bits still stuck on and the additional bits in three packets.

 

Test running tomorrow and the weekend.

 

Gordon A

Bristol

 

 

Test run over the weekend - no problems to report.

 

Gordon A

Bristol

[JSpencer]

Hello all-

 

First post here.  I've been getting great information from the boards here since I stumbled on them last year, thank you all for the fantastic comments, observations, and information.  As an American who models British steam (primarily LNER and GWR) here in the states, getting ahold of equipment is always interesting to say the least, and not without its challenges.  But it's a labor of love, and I have managed to put together a fair old collection I'm very happy with, and enjoy turning heads and dropping the foaming jaws of the American "know-it-alls" and rivet counters while running my locos on the American layout at my local club

 

I had been looking at the Heljan Garratts with great interest; it is a fascinating loco, but even though it's a fairly reasonable price for that much loco (flaws which have been discussed here notwithstanding...) it's a bit out of my price range.  Plus, when I was able to put enough aside for one, they had sold out of the non-rotary bunker models, which is what I was hoping for.  To my surprise, I happened to check eHattons on a whim last Wednesday, and they had for offer LMS #4970 with standard bunker in pristine (listed as "pre-owned, as new"), the very loco I was hoping for!  With a few key strokes, I bade good-bye to a pile of cash, and crossed my fingers everything would go to plan.  It was listed for 210, rather than 199, and I didn't feel the extra 11 was too off the mark for a loco that was not going to be easily found elsewhere.

 

Since then, I have read the entirety of this thread while waiting on the beast to arrive state side (which looks like it may be shortly after Christmas by the tracking info).  I'll certainly post my impressions, etc. once it arrives, and how she operates.

 

Do you think this loco I've now ordered could be a "re-furbished" one that was returned with issues?  If that's the case, I'm wondering if perhaps I may have a better chance of acquiring a good runner, as (in theory, at least), if it's a pre-owned, it would have been tested to be sure it was in good working order, and I would think Hattons would have at lease made at least reasonably sure that in light of the problems which have been brought to their attention, they wouldn't knowingly send out a "lemon", especially if it was a return at some earlier point.

 

What do you think?  Am I being overly optimistic?

 

Only time will tell I,m afraid. Mine is still fine after 6 months.

[Peter Beckett]

My Garratt had its first run after the replacement front unit from Hatton's was fitted. I have only just finished the outer loop of the new layout which is why the delay. It runs fine as per the original (fitted with a loksound V4 with Olivias sound) and all I did  was to place 2 fibre washers on the front pony to reduce side play and re- guage the wheels. It does not require any weight on the pony trucks and the Kadee's are the correct height. I ran it for over 2 hours at 1/4 speed then upped the speed to 1/2 for another hour.

 

Peter

[250BOB]

Only time will tell I,m afraid. Mine is still fine after 6 months.

 

And so is mine......schhhhhhhhhhh.!!!!!

[trw1089]

Mine too!

[toboldlygo]

Got my Garratt out of the box for the first time in ages to give it a run on the layout, I swear it was quieter and smoother and more responsive than before...

[Baldy]

I fitted a dcc concepts direct plug chip with capacitor to mine last night. Bit concerned fitting it given worries over bits falling off but the fittings went very well with access being good. Would encourage people to fit a chip if your wavering, as it now runs even better, with lights bright either end as required. Mine has had no running problems as yet - fingers crossed it stays the same as I still think it is a great model.

[robmcg]

Got my Garratt out of the box for the first time in ages to give it a run on the layout, I swear it was quieter and smoother and more responsive than before...

I know that feeling. All eight of mine will run forever. But today I have Robinsonitis, the D11 strain. It's a burden I have to bear.

[Ian Hargrave]

I know that feeling. All eight of mine will run forever. But today I have Robinsonitis, the D11 strain. It's a burden I have to bear.

If you have a subscription to ModelRail,you can have a reduction on their apple green LNER "Marne". Otherwise a hefty £146 + p&p from Kernow. OT...mea culpa.

[panzerjaeger]

My first BG went back to Hattons in August with numerous issues but a replacement was sent immediately and it was run in for about 3 hours without problems.

 

Since then, I haven't had time to run it but as my daughter was home for a few days and takes a great interest in the layout, I decided to show her the BG.

 

From the moment it left the siding (which has been its home for the past 4 months), it was obvious something was wrong. Even on full power, it crawled around the track and managed 2 circuits before giving up the ghost completely. 

 

I have left it for 30 minutes and tried to run it again. Only one motor worked at first and then the other began to operate. It still runs very slowly so something is wrong.

 

Do I read through this thread and try to find a solution to the problem or do I send it back to Hattons tomorrow?

[Stevelewis]

Personally I  would  send  it  back,  you paid good  money  for  one  that  works  not  one  you  have  to repair  yourself!!

 

I find  it  difficult  to  understand  why  this particular  model  has  so  many  problems, considering  it  is basicly 2 powered  2-6-0 chassis which  are elctrically  linked.

 

I have in my  collection  several  articulated  locos  in more  than  one  scale  none  of  which  have  ever  given  me the  slightest  problems.

 

This  scenario with  the  Garratt  is  surely  not  doing Heljan's  reputation  for  quality  any  favours!

Edited December 28, 2014 by Stevelewis

[lee74clarke]

My first BG went back to Hattons in August with numerous issues but a replacement was sent immediately and it was run in for about 3 hours without problems.

 

Since then, I haven't had time to run it but as my daughter was home for a few days and takes a great interest in the layout, I decided to show her the BG.

 

From the moment it left the siding (which has been its home for the past 4 months), it was obvious something was wrong. Even on full power, it crawled around the track and managed 2 circuits before giving up the ghost completely.

 

I have left it for 30 minutes and tried to run it again. Only one motor worked at first and then the other began to operate. It still runs very slowly so something is wrong.

 

Do I read through this thread and try to find a solution to the problem or do I send it back to Hattons tomorrow?

Good Evening,

Exactly the same happened to my first one, running fine, stood for a while, then ran like it was on half power.

I sent mine back to Hattons, after a quick phone call, and to be fair to them, they handled it very well.

I was offered a refund or a replacement, and went for the latter. Time will tell if this was a wise choice. It has run for about 4 hours and been fine, so fingers crossed.

I have read posts on here about carrying out repairs, but if within warranty and at that price, my opinion is you should not have to.

Also, the more of these episodes that Hattons, and ultimately Heljan know about and see, you would hope it may prevent future similar issues.

I know they got it wrong with the Clayton, but as someone who works in manufacturing, you want to know when a piece of kit has problems, not have someone carrying out their own repairs and then saying it's a load of rubbish on a forum.

Just my view, you obviously have to do what you feel is best, but it will be quicker to pack it up and send back to Liverpool than take the damn thing to bits!

Lee

[Horsetan]

Looks like Heljan could have a new marketing slogan: "Never Meet Your Heroes...."

[robmcg]

My version of a weathered Garratt... bought s/h from Hattons pristine, my weathering with a single brush-coat of black semi-gloss or satin finish enamel, and variable clear matt and satin finishes, a tiny bit of acrylic for one or two spots. Edited picture. Wouldn't call it heavily-weathered, but enjoyable apart from the smell of enamel and thinners.

 

https://www.facebook.com/brsteamphotos/photos/a.378493222316349.1073741838.203786143120392/404697769695894/?type=1&theater

Edited December 30, 2014 by robmcg

[railroadbill]

My version of a weathered Garratt... bought s/h from Hattons pristine, my weathering with a single brush-coat of black semi-gloss or satin finish enamel, and variable clear matt and satin finishes, a tiny bit of acrylic for one or two spots. Edited picture. Wouldn't call it heavily-weathered, but enjoyable apart from the smell of enamel and thinners.https://www.facebook.com/brsteamphotos/photos/a.378493222316349.1073741838.203786143120392/404697769695894/?type=1&theater

Nice pic Rob, the light along the boiler and tank very atmospheric and weathering looks very realistic. A snip at 132 quid! The Heljan tango approaches...

 

Best wishes for 2015 to all.

Bill

[Ian Hargrave]

Nice pic Rob, the light along the boiler and tank very atmospheric and weathering looks very realistic. A snip at 132 quid! The Heljan tango approaches...

Best wishes for 2015 to all.

Bill

And also to you.Just posted on the Tango thread to the effect that there are hopes that they put a decent motor in it.