Heljan Beyer garratt

[amdaley]

That's good news Peter.

Many people were burned by the original version so its nice to hear a good news story regarding the model.

Edited January 3, 2017 by amdaley

[Colin_McLeod]

Is Olivias "Fixing up" BGs or only ones that they already have?

[amdaley]

Is Olivias "Fixing up" BGs or only ones that they already have?

 

They seem to be one's which were returned faulty to Heljan & bought by Olivias who then repaired them with new motors.

[Colin_McLeod]

Thanks Tony. A neat move by Olivias to get a bit of extra business.

 

Would you consider one of their locos?

[amdaley]

Thanks Tony. A neat move by Olivias to get a bit of extra business.

 

Would you consider one of their locos?

 

Hi Colin.

Happy New Year.

 

Not from Olivias. We have heard to many bad things about this company for me to ignore. Every shop has its mishaps from time to time but Olivias seem to have just to many.

I was very disappointed when my original Hattons one died within minutes having waited three years for it to arrive so I would gladly buy another if given the opportunity & if I could be sure that the problems had been overcome.

Maybe if I lived in the UK within driving distance of Sheffield I might take a chance with Olivias but not at a distance.

[Grovenor]

 

I was very disappointed when my original Hattons one died within minutes having waited three years for it to arrive so I would gladly buy another if given the opportunity & if I could be sure that the problems had been overcome.

Plenty help back up this topic to fit a couple of replacement motors, simple enough and much cheaper than a new loco.

Regards

[amdaley]

Plenty help back up this topic to fit a couple of replacement motors, simple enough and much cheaper than a new loco.

Regards

Thanks Keith. I read all about fitting new motors back in this thread.

I think the point being made at the time & upteen times since was why should anyone have to take apart a brand new £200 loco to replace the motors. Not everyone has the skill, the time or the inclination to do so.

I sent my faulty one back long ago. I would love a Garratt & would have no problem buying a new one if only it wasn't from Olivias.

[Trains&armour]

Well, it's supposed to be a happy new year, so some more positive news should go down well...

I bought my BG from Olivias almost a year ago, and, except for a short trial on my 2m test track, it has stood looking pretty in my display cabinet.  

Until last week. I was invited to a model railway meeting and decided to accept and bring something nice to run on the 50 meters of  modular British layout that was going to be there. And lo and behold, my BG preformed flawlessly throughout the day, happily chuffing back and forth on the track. No funny sounds and smells, no smoke and no warming of the motors. The only minor niggle being that the ponytrucks were prone to derail on some points. But I think some extra weight or a spring will soon cure that.

No connection to the company, but well done Olivia!

Edited January 3, 2017 by Trains&armour

[amdaley]

Well, it's supposed to be a happy new year, so some more positive news should go down well...

I bought my BG from Olivias almost a year ago, and, except for a short trial on my 2m test track, it has stood looking pretty in my display cabinet.  

Until last week. I was invited to a model railway meeting and decided to accept and bring something nice to run on the 50 meters of  modular British layout that was going to be there. And lo and behold, my BG preformed flawlessly throughout the day, happily chuffing back and forth on the track. No funny sounds and smells, no smoke and no warming of the motors. The only minor niggle being that the ponytrucks were prone to derail on some points. But I think some extra weight or a spring will soon cure that.

No connection to the company, but well done Olivia!

 

That's great to hear.

Two pieces of good news about Olivias today.

Perhaps the tide has turned for them in 2017.

[Rshakes3]

Hello all, well lets make that 3 pieces then,  I too ordered a Garratt with some trepidation from Olivias before Christmas. However it was delivered in good time and following some running in on my rolling road and a bit of weathering it has run perfectly for the last few weeks. Shame I didn`t wait for the Christmas 'special' as I would have saved over a $100 however I was ready to spend the money anyway. So all in all I`m very happy withthe loco - thanks Olivias!

[GWR8700]

Do the seperate sets of driving wheels run at the same speed now?  I noticed this on a few videos on YouTube that they weren't in sync.  Does this have an impact on the running quality?

Edited January 6, 2017 by GWR8700

[lymer]

Do the seperate sets of driving wheels run at the same speed now?  I noticed this on a few videos on YouTube that they weren't in sync.  Does this have an impact on the running quality?

 

The separate driving wheels should run at the same speed but most didn't which was causing the motor failures as it was placing stress on the motors and burning them out

[amdaley]

The separate driving wheels should run at the same speed but most didn't which was causing the motor failures as it was placing stress on the motors and burning them out

 

Strange you should say that as I never thought of it that way.

Back when I got mine I ran it for about 20 minutes each way on a rolling road with no problem but as soon as I placed it on the track it failed withing minutes.

On the rolling road each motor was able to run at its own pace but started fighting when put on a rigid track.

I also noticed that one chassis ran slightly slower that the other one.

[Golden Fleece 30]

I am not 100% convinced on that one.  If I double head a train and both locos run at different speeds, which is fairly common for a lot of locos, it never burns out a motor of one of those locos.

 

Putting two Dublo 0-6-2 tanks or 2-6-4 tanks or 8F's on the same track but not coupled one will invariably catch the other or get further away yet there are no problems when double heading the same locos, I don't get burnt out motors so why is it supposed to do this with the Garratts?  After all they are two separate locos as such.

 

Garry

[davefrk]

I'm not convinced either, more likely the slower chassis was 'tight' and this would put an extra stain on the motor which could then overheat.

Usually batches of motors run about the same speed which is why it is recommended that you buy two motors together if double motoring locos.

 

Dave Franks.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Smallish motors in the Garratt, and the failed example that someone was kind enough to dismantle and put a photograph on here had undoubtedly had a meltdown. I rather suspect a sum of contributions, not very special manufacturing quality of the motor, then placed under rather more load than desireable from both mechanism and running as a 'double header', the most likely set of causes. I see an example - just one! - running regularly, and it is fine. We have no clue to the scale of the failures, known to Hattons alone; and their view will be distorted by the 80% sold that have never turned a wheel to any extent.

[amdaley]

I am not 100% convinced on that one.  If I double head a train and both locos run at different speeds, which is fairly common for a lot of locos, it never burns out a motor of one of those locos.

 

Putting two Dublo 0-6-2 tanks or 2-6-4 tanks or 8F's on the same track but not coupled one will invariably catch the other or get further away yet there are no problems when double heading the same locos, I don't get burnt out motors so why is it supposed to do this with the Garratts?  After all they are two separate locos as such.

 

Garry

 

 

I'm not convinced either, more likely the slower chassis was 'tight' and this would put an extra stain on the motor which could then overheat.

Usually batches of motors run about the same speed which is why it is recommended that you buy two motors together if double motoring locos.

 

Dave Franks.

 

My thinking was that normally when double heading there is enough play in the couplings between the two locos which helps even out the difference there may be in motor speeds. You can often see the locos hunting back & forth.

However in the case of the Garratt even though there are two chassis as well they are bolted rigidly together with no play at all between the two so they fight against each other even more.

I've no doubt that there are other factors as well like motor quality because when the motors are replaced with quality items the problem seem to go away ?

Then again as Dave said the new motors may be from the same batch which eliminates the speed differences.

 

I understand what Dave is referring to about motor batches running at the same speed.

I have two Hattons Dapol LMS twins.

One runs slightly faster than the other.

They were bought at different times.

I had originally thought of buying the Hattons Dapol No 10000 & the Rails Bachmann No 10001 but got fed up waiting for the Rails one so I bought another Dapol one from Hattons.

Since I run DCC I will speed match the two Twins when I get around to it.

Of course if I was running DC I couldn't do anything at all.

[Mike Riley]

My thinking was that normally when double heading there is enough play in the couplings between the two locos which helps even out the difference there may be in motor speeds. You can often see the locos hunting back & forth.

However in the case of the Garratt even though there are two chassis as well they are bolted rigidly together with no play at all between the two so they fight against each other even more.

I

Of course if I was running DC I couldn't do anything at all.

 

You could put a resistor in series with the motor on the one that ran faster.  Trial and error to find the value of the resistor would be a pain of course unless you used a potentiometer.

[Theakerr]

I suspect that different speeds for each motor may have played a role but as far as I am concerned the motors used were cxxp.  As 34 has pointed out someone took some pictures of a failed motor and as I found out when I repaired a friends garret the body temp of the motor hit 54C when it was running alone on my equivalent of a rolling road.  No way would a quality motor have hit that sort of temp.

[JeremyC]

My thinking was that normally when double heading there is enough play in the couplings between the two locos which helps even out the difference there may be in motor speeds. You can often see the locos hunting back & forth.

However in the case of the Garratt even though there are two chassis as well they are bolted rigidly together with no play at all between the two so they fight against each other even more.

I've no doubt that there are other factors as well like motor quality because when the motors are replaced with quality items the problem seem to go away ?

Then again as Dave said the new motors may be from the same batch which eliminates the speed differences.

 

I understand what Dave is referring to about motor batches running at the same speed.

I have two Hattons Dapol LMS twins.

One runs slightly faster than the other.

They were bought at different times.

I had originally thought of buying the Hattons Dapol No 10000 & the Rails Bachmann No 10001 but got fed up waiting for the Rails one so I bought another Dapol one from Hattons.

Since I run DCC I will speed match the two Twins when I get around to it.

Of course if I was running DC I couldn't do anything at all.

The chances of two independent motors running at absolutely matched speed or load are practically zero. Obviously they were much larger motors, but my last ship had twin prop motors driving into a common gearbox; the motors ran in master/slave mode with a lot of high tech electronics constantly measuring the torque of each motor and adjusting the power of the slave to match the master. Edited January 16, 2017 by JeremyC

[46256]

Some time after the last post on this thread....what a poor model this is....I've spent time money and expertise both my own and friends in making this model work...its been remotered....then to find the pickups are poor then for wheels to detach from axles...I can't help thinking if this model had been engineered and then sold at the correct price.....then the majority of the. Criticism on this thread would be redundant.......and let me make it clear ..I am not interested in recompense.....just a model of a locomotive I need on my layout to wor.k,,

[Horsetan]

....I can't help thinking if this model had been engineered and then sold at the correct price.........

 

Based on the anecdotal information, I get the impression it has been engineered, but down to a price, allowing Hattons to have their profit out of it when they sell to the ultimate user.

[46256]

Hopefully my last post on this site...Garratt in works since January...had specified to my mate to replace the mashimas with another batch of Chinese motors..thinking the mashimas not as powerful. He did so for one of the new batch to overheat and fail. In meantime discovered a number of other problems...pick ups not making good connectivity...driving wheels becoming loose. To cut a very long story short recommended I stay with the mashimas....I have done so....he has added extra pick ups to the centre wheels on each chassis..wheels cleaned...returned to me today....what a revelation....in conclusion I have now spent an extra 100 quid on this loco...would have paid 300 at outset...

 

To see this Garratt perform on my layout today...priceless

[46256]

Whom the gods wish to destroy they first make proud...after my last post...cue bugle...went to my loft layout ran the Garratt...then derail is it the pony truck....oh no...front driving wheel loose...motion jammed....even the mashimas running hot...trust me...this loco is a pile of poo....I will salvage the best bits...superstructure ...will order .two comet fowler 264 t chassis.....portescap motor exchanged from one of my remaining locos that they have them...in this case a millholme a2/2 , a hi flier and mashima 14/30 will replace.. This drastic action will I hope produce a worthy sister loco to my kitmaster vintage 1960 loco....

[46256]

The cold light of day...emotions back to normal....lump hammer returned to tool box without becoming acquainted with a Garratt chassis.

 

 

Examination of model. It had been running straight tender first, this was the chassis experiencing the meltdown. The motion had seized on one side, this in turn caused the front drivers to become loose, and lose their quartering, thus adding to the complete seizure of the chassis. Motion removed from the one side, the connecting rod held in place by the crank on cntre driver...this just seems to be a force fit rather than a screw in.....top of tender removed and by turning the flywheel loosened the jam. The wheels were then requartered. The model was then returned to the track . The motion has yet to be replaced , I want at this time to ensure good running...how she looks at the moment is not important. It then became apparent what was the probable cause of last nights mishap, the front pony truck keeps derailing and on doing so jams into the motion. I have removed the truck for now....and the Garratt has been running for the past half hour. The mashimas are working fine and now being run in are better than I recall back in January, in addition the extra pick ups on the centre wheels to my mind really aid the running.. Ok not there yet got to replace motion and work on that pony truck...but feel a lot better today!