Heljan Beyer garratt

[bigherb]

Don't take too much notice of the voltage rating - they are all listed as Model N60-2535 and are the same motor !!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

I don't know how you work that out?

Do you want a motor doing 18500 rpm at 3V in a Garret? or one doing 15000 rpm at 12V or even better 3000 rpm at 12V

[cctransuk]

I don't know how you work that out?

Do you want a motor doing 18500 rpm at 3V in a Garret? or one doing 15000 rpm at 12V or even better 3000 rpm at 12V

 

Go back to your original post #1729 - what is the model number of the motor to which you drew attention?

 

I did a Google search on "Motor Model N60-2535", and got the links that I posted above.

 

The descriptions of Chinese surplus items on-line are notoriously unreliable but I would purchase, on the basis that the model number matches the one that you posted.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[ikks]

Many thanks for your help folks.

 

Rgds.....Mike

[Theakerr]

Last night, after installing Mashima motors such that my friends Garret is running the way it should, I had it on the work bench for general maintenance.  Interesting in that with no load the front end defiantly runs faster than the back end at slow to intermediate speeds.  This is more pronounced when running in reverse.  I cannot see this being a function of the motors now that it has "identical" Mashimas, and I cannot find anything obvious in the driveline or gearboxes.  I am more than a little bit suspicious of the wiring after noticing that there are some very uneven run lengths of very fine wire and there may even be some different gauge wires.  I am also wondering if there is any imbeded software on the decoder pin base like there is on the 02/03.  Just wondering if anyone else has come across the same phenomena since on cheaper motors it could very well be an additional problem to cheap motors.  FYI, my friend runs DCC but I have put in a standard 8 pin blank because I run DC 

[Downendian]

Well being out of warranty I was dreading test running my B-G based on the last 15+ pages of woe. My own fault, I had salted it away waiting for a rainy day to run in but regrettably two years after purchase. Guess what, one motor failed promptly before the loco had completed one circuit on the test track. Two replacement motors bought, and other task to join the Queue. Lesson learnt - run in all locos before the warranty expires.

Neil

[farren]

Do you think there will ever be a second production run of the garratt?

[Re6/6]

I must have been lucky with mine as it ran faultlessly for over an hour on the DRAG test track at S4um.

 

If l ever get round to P4ing it the motors will be changed just in case!

[jjb1970]

Well being out of warranty I was dreading test running my B-G based on the last 15+ pages of woe. My own fault, I had salted it away waiting for a rainy day to run in but regrettably two years after purchase. Guess what, one motor failed promptly before the loco had completed one circuit on the test track. Two replacement motors bought, and other task to join the Queue. Lesson learnt - run in all locos before the warranty expires.

Neil

Whether out of warranty or not, under the Consumer Rights Act you have six years to make a claim if a product is not of satisfactory quality or fit for purpose. If Hattons try and fob you off by telling you it is out of warranty so they won't do anything then you can use the small claims process which doesn't cost a lot. At this point the burden would be on you to demonstrate that the model was not fit for purpose but given the amount of evidence around the web about this model I think you should be able to put a reasonable case together. If the model only completed one circuit then it will probably be quite obvious to an informed person that the model hasn't been operated.

[Brian Hawkins]

Do you think there will ever be a second production run of the garratt?

 

I sincerely hope not, I rather stupidly purchased all twelve Garratts and only three of them run now, lovely looking model, but, those motors, oh dear, oh dear, oh dear :-(

[Horsetan]

Had this been the Heljan Clayton Affair all over again, we'd be saying three out of twelve's not bad....

[Colin_McLeod]

Well being out of warranty I was dreading test running my B-G based on the last 15+ pages of woe. My own fault, I had salted it away waiting for a rainy day to run in but regrettably two years after purchase. Guess what, one motor failed promptly before the loco had completed one circuit on the test track. Two replacement motors bought, and other task to join the Queue. Lesson learnt - run in all locos before the warranty expires.

Neil

Like Neil I have not had an opportunity to run my BG yet but I have purchased replacement motors. What's the general advice? Should I try my luck with the originals and risk damage or should I just put in the new motors regardless?

[amdaley]

Like Neil I have not had an opportunity to run my BG yet but I have purchased replacement motors. What's the general advice? Should I try my luck with the originals and risk damage or should I just put in the new motors regardless?

 

I'd say put it on rollers Colin & run it in gently.

If you run it slowly then no damage will happen.

If on rollers all that can happen is that one of the motors will stop. See what happens.

 

Incidentally if you're not a religious person now would be a good time to start 

[JSpencer]

Like Neil I have not had an opportunity to run my BG yet but I have purchased replacement motors. What's the general advice? Should I try my luck with the originals and risk damage or should I just put in the new motors regardless?

And if you don't have 12 rollers lying around, turn the model upside down in the ice cube packaging. Apply current to the wheels and slowly accelerate.

 

All wheels should turn at the same speed. Panic if they don't!

[JSpencer]

I sincerely hope not, I rather stupidly purchased all twelve Garratts and only three of them run now, lovely looking model, but, those motors, oh dear, oh dear, oh dear :-(

 

WOW! because:

1/ 2.5 grand buying that lot

2/ 75% failure rate

 

I hope you got a refund.

[Brian Hawkins]

WOW! because:

1/ 2.5 grand buying that lot

2/ 75% failure rate

 

I hope you got a refund.

Exactly, £2400 wasted, not a happy bunny, you only have to look at the amount of pages on this thread, I believe that the Heljan Garratt is without doubt the biggest disaster in RTR model locomotive history, a lot of money for a very poorly manufactured model.

[micklner]

I sincerely hope not, I rather stupidly purchased all twelve Garratts and only three of them run now, lovely looking model, but, those motors, oh dear, oh dear, oh dear :-(

 

The post above yours sums up what you should do if you wish.

 

Quote

 

Whether out of warranty or not, under the Consumer Rights Act you have six years to make a claim if a product is not of satisfactory quality or fit for purpose. If Hattons try and fob you off by telling you it is out of warranty so they won't do anything then you can use the small claims process which doesn't cost a lot. At this point the burden would be on you to demonstrate that the model was not fit for purpose but given the amount of evidence around the web about this model I think you should be able to put a reasonable case together. If the model only completed one circuit then it will probably be quite obvious to an informed person that the model hasn't been operated.

[Ian Hargrave]

The post above yours sums up what you should do if you wish.

 

Quote

 

Whether out of warranty or not, under the Consumer Rights Act you have six years to make a claim if a product is not of satisfactory quality or fit for purpose. If Hattons try and fob you off by telling you it is out of warranty so they won't do anything then you can use the small claims process which doesn't cost a lot. At this point the burden would be on you to demonstrate that the model was not fit for purpose but given the amount of evidence around the web about this model I think you should be able to put a reasonable case together. If the model only completed one circuit then it will probably be quite obvious to an informed person that the model hasn't been operated.

This is a point that has been made a few times on the subject.It is,however,easier to say than do. Legal redress is a daunting prospect and I imagine only a very few would have the bottle for it.So....who's going first ? Queue here......

[Brian Hawkins]

This is a point that has been made a few times on the subject.It is,however,easier to say than do. Legal redress is a daunting prospect and I imagine only a very few would have the bottle for it.So....who's going first ? Queue here......

I made at least 7 visits to Hattons from my home in Gosport to return defective Garratts, each time they were test run in the shop for me and each time I returned home I thought my on going problems were solved ..............wrong, i've given up on the Garratts, I put everything down to very very shoddy manufacturing and very poor after service, Nine of my Garratts are sat in a display case just waiting to be joined at some time by the other three.

Edited September 28, 2016 by Brian Hawkins

[micklner]

This is a point that has been made a few times on the subject.It is,however,easier to say than do. Legal redress is a daunting prospect and I imagine only a very few would have the bottle for it.So....who's going first ? Queue here......

 

Speak to your local Citizens Advice Bureau its free !!

[jjb1970]

This is a point that has been made a few times on the subject.It is,however,easier to say than do. Legal redress is a daunting prospect and I imagine only a very few would have the bottle for it.So....who's going first ? Queue here......

The small claims process was intended to address this very point and to make legal redress accessible. Costs are very modest and cases are heard in an informal setting without robes, barristers, solicitors etc. I've used it myself and it was painless and not at all intimidating. If companies get away with selling garbage because people don't use the mechanisms put in place to help them then I can understand why retailers try and throw us off and take a chance we'll just whinge and let them get away with it.

[Theakerr]

Portsmouth FC, don't mothball all your locos.  When I was repairing my friends garret I did a lot of research looking for alternate motors.   I came across a number in China on Ali BaBa with the same dimensions as the OEM, some with 5 pole motors and some with some impressive credentials in terms of torque, start voltage, running voltage etc. at about 1/4 the price of Mashimas.   I also came across a correless 5V motor that would have fitted.  I was really interested in that one because with a voltage dropper/restrictor it would have made a most interesting project.  Anyway my friend opted for a pair of Mashimas and it was an easy fix with the most difficult part being removing the worm gear.  

[Ian Hargrave]

I made at least 7 visits to Hattons from my home in Gosport to return defective Garratts, each time they were test run in the shop for me and each time I returned home I thought my on going problems were solved ..............wrong, i've given up on the Garratts, I put everything down to very very shoddy manufacturing and very poor after service, Nine of my Garratts are sat in a display case just waiting to be joined at some time by the other three.

 

There is of course a certain Hattons Dave who regularly posts on this forum.Worth a shot ? Not at him of course........ How would any prospective litigant present evidence of these multiple falures btw. Video footage,? Layout demo in the courtroom? One other avenue...IF you feel you have an overwhelmingly convincing case (in your case almost certainly) would be to get all your ducks in a row..i.e. assemble all your evidence of failures and then approach the retailer with notice of your intent and then see what happens.I wish you good fortune.You certainly deserve it.You should ask for financial reparation at very least.

Edited September 29, 2016 by Ian Hargrave

[Stevelewis]

Just a  small comment  probably  not  too relevant,  I neve  bought  any Garratts  so  I cannot  really  comment  on  them  other  than  to  appreciate  the  obvious  disappointment  that  some   owners  have  experienced  with  them,  particularly  as  it  is  such  a  nice  looking  model.

 

However I find  it  strange  that  performance  has  been  so poor  for  some,   given  that  Heljan's  H0   Danish  etc  outline  steam  locos  perform  extremely  well,   but  as  these  are  rather  expensive  I wonder  if it  was    perhaps that  the  Garratt was   manufactured  down  to  a  price?

[Ian Hargrave]

Just a  small comment  probably  not  too relevant,  I neve  bought  any Garratts  so  I cannot  really  comment  on  them  other  than  to  appreciate  the  obvious  disappointment  that  some   owners  have  experienced  with  them,  particularly  as  it  is  such  a  nice  looking  model.

 

However I find  it  strange  that  performance  has  been  so poor  for  some,   given  that  Heljan's  H0   Danish  etc  outline  steam  locos  perform  extremely  well,   but  as  these  are  rather  expensive  I wonder  if it  was    perhaps that  the  Garratt was   manufactured  down  to  a  price?

And that ,Steve,is the essence of the problem.

[Golden Fleece 30]

How would any prospective litigant present evidence of these multiple falures btw. Video footage,?

 

Don't forget the photos I put on here of the burnt out motor/melted commutator, and, sent them to Heljan who by return of post sent some replacements.  Unfortunately after replacing the motor I cannot give it a good run as the layout is non operational now for a considerable time.

 

Garry