Do you agree with this assessment of the Hammant and Morgan controllers ?

[kevinlms]

I still use Clippers to power the points and lights - they just keep going!

 

Xerces Fobe

 

But that is an entirely different function than trying to control trains.

 

Kevin Martin

[Darwinian]

I have a 1970s H&M walkabout that I use with a range of motors from old ECM Type 2s through varius mashimas and Portescaps (dependent on how recently I built the loco!). It's a lovely controller to use but the slider knob on mine is now becoming loose so it's been retired to run my test track and rolling road. Soon after I bought it one of the inertia settings failed (the lesser effect one) and it went back to H&M. It worked properly when returned but failed again a year or two later. I went to Uni soon afterwards so it never got sorted but the rest still works fine today.

The walkabout doesn't include a transformer and requires a 16v AC. supply.

 

Mine has been superceded by a Morley vector which gives comparable fine control, has single rotating knob, with vertical off, without any "click" on the main unit but also has small walkabout units which do have a slight click when the zero position is passed.

 

Adrian

[Gummy-Joe]

I have a 'Clipper' which I have used for the last 15 years with a wide range of locos - from elderly Tri-ang TT A1A-A1As through to the latest incarnation of the Athearn HO SD40T-2 - and it has always performed very satisfactorily. I currently model primarily in N gauge, and find that it works just fine with both UK and US outline locos. Once they have been run in I have found that it is possible to run most locos at a smooth, steady, crawl around my small oval test track, provided the resistance and wave switches are set appropriately. When I do get around to shopping for a new controller, it will be for a DCC system. I can't see any real need to replace the Clipper, especially as it provides an excellent source of power for my soldering iron!

[antrobuscp]

Just as a matter of interest, I've very recently managed to obtain an HM Walkabout unit after mine packed some time ago. In another thread there was mention of surging with some Bachmann Emus/Dmus, and I've experienced this with my other controllers. Interestingly, the Walkabout seems to "manage" these units better than any of my other controllers. Excellent controller.

 

Colin

[wilfy]

Hi everyone,

I really do not want to be a rumour starter but I have just opened up a H and M powapack transformer. Inside I found what I believe to be a sheet of white asbestos used as electrical insulation. This was in a very soft and crumbly state and there was white dust on the inside of the box. I may be wrong in identifying this as asbestos but am I going to take the risk, NO. Does anyone know for sure?.

Apart from this issue, the 16 volt did not work and the 12 volt outputted 16.95 volts according to my meter. I did swallow the H and M hype, I have a sixties duette on the way from ebay as well. Its just my own personal opinion but I am disappointed, perhaps I was expecting too much from old apparatus. The only thing is I did not pay much at all so I can write it off to experience. I now need to take the powapack to the tip for safe disposal.

[RJS1977]

The reason the 12V gave 16V is probably because there was no load on it.

[N15class]

Hi everyone,

I really do not want to be a rumour starter but I have just opened up a H and M powapack transformer. Inside I found what I believe to be a sheet of white asbestos used as electrical insulation. This was in a very soft and crumbly state and there was white dust on the inside of the box. I may be wrong in identifying this as asbestos but am I going to take the risk, NO. Does anyone know for sure?.

Apart from this issue, the 16 volt did not work and the 12 volt outputted 16.95 volts according to my meter. I did swallow the H and M hype, I have a sixties duette on the way from ebay as well. Its just my own personal opinion but I am disappointed, perhaps I was expecting too much from old apparatus. The only thing is I did not pay much at all so I can write it off to experience. I now need to take the powapack to the tip for safe disposal.

 

The duette is a good transformer controller. I use mine for all my testing and for running my 12V soldering Iron. From what I remember it is mostly an empty box. I do not remember seeing any thing like asbestos inside it.

 

The chances are it was not asbestos but if it is dusting you do not want to take the chance. If it was still in solid form there would not of been to much to worry about.

[Southernman46]

I use a Powermaster (that's as old as me - nearly 50 !!) and a slightly younger Duette without problems - slightly iffy at very low speeds but this has a bit to do with track cleanliness too - don't see me changing anytime soon.

[steven156]

I had always planned to stick with my Hornby HM2000 controller when I made my beginnings in DC many years ago. I feel the review for the HM2000 is very general and feel it deserved a bit of a better opinion. It does everything you need in a good sized layout and despite the sheer amount of plastic it feels "solid". It's always got my Bachmann flywheel traction to run silky smooth and even a very decent crawl out of the Lima Pancakes when I ran on DC.

 

I've went DCC, but despite this my HM2000 controller is still a useful servant, it provides plenty of power to my Points via a bank of switches and the Layout Lighting is powered and controlled by the two track outputs so different parts of the layout can have powerful bright lights- like the depot area and dim lights - like in the cottages!

[Belsay Lad]

I have a H&M 'Duette' which on high res and half wave moves a Minitrix class 27(sic) at less than an inch a minute at min power without problem. However I don't know what would it might do to more delicate modern locos - I suspect the 'magic smoke'?

[APOLLO]

I started off (Tri-ang TT) with a Hornby Marshall 2, OK but only had 4 or 5 steps in each direction of control, Upgraded in the late 60's to a H&M Powermaster, a variable transformer unit with 6 section switches, power boost and pulse slider. Brilliant unit, but I sold it (wish I hadn't) & bought (still have) Codar units with built in acceleration. These nowadays control the lighting and colour light signal voltage on my layout. The best controllers I have ever / still use are 3 ECM units - they are brilliant though now, sadly no longer availiable. A gaugemaster Q 4 track unit controlls my main lines - no problems or complaints, though I'd sooner have ECM's.

 

Brit15

[soldier184]

hey guys, i have only the new cheap type of Hornby standard controller after recently getting into oo gauge which works fair to middlin on new engines and also an older than myself airfix controller built like a tank which is to powerfull for modern locos but works very well with older models that need the extra power.as i have a few early s/h locos i am also looking at getting hold of one or two duettes to power these.

 

some people are giving the duettes a bad go but most i speak to swear by them also after reading up on this link it seems to put them down a bit and says to my surprise that a Hornby r965 is decent.

 

i no the older types can run hot after a few minutes of running but they just dont make them like that any more.

 

also not much mention of the vortrak controllers which appear quite good and i will also be looking at these myself for a permanent controller

 

drew

[shortliner]

I spent two days last weekend running US locos at the Inverness Exhibition. Power was supplied by a 1000ma wallwart and control (DC) was a second hand AGW solid state hand held picked up at Glasgow (I think it cost me a fiver)- I took 6 locos just for a bit of variation and every one would run so slowly that you could barely see it moving with three 50' cars attatched - the motor literally cogging over - DCC simply isn't needed, for smoth slow running - Flak jacket and tin helmet on!

[brian777999]

I spent two days last weekend running US locos at the Inverness Exhibition. Power was supplied by a 1000ma wallwart and control (DC) was a second hand AGW solid state hand held picked up at Glasgow (I think it cost me a fiver)- I took 6 locos just for a bit of variation and every one would run so slowly that you could barely see it moving with three 50' cars attatched - the motor literally cogging over - DCC simply isn't needed, for smoth slow running - Flak jacket and tin helmet on!

 

The only problem with DC is that the major manufacturers have either forgotten how to build a decent controller or they are just not interested  any more. I suspect that they see far more profit in pushing everybody towards DCC.

[shortliner]

The only problem with DC is that the major manufacturers have either forgotten how to build a decent controller or they are just not interested  any more. I suspect that they see far more profit in pushing everybody towards DCC.

 

You could try the Bachmann DC one - all my locos run fine with that too - and it can have a (basic)DCC one added if you decide to go that way later

[kevinlms]

The only problem with DC is that the major manufacturers have either forgotten how to build a decent controller or they are just not interested  any more. I suspect that they see far more profit in pushing everybody towards DCC.

Do you mean controllers made by Hornby & the like? If so most of their controllers throughout their history are made for train sets & not for serious modellers. In that respect, nothing has changed, i.e. their entry level DCC controller the Select, which doesn't conform to the required standards. I'll let you do your own Google searches to find out how poorly they are regarded.

[DLT]

I spent two days last weekend running US locos at the Inverness Exhibition. Power was supplied by a 1000ma wallwart and control (DC) was a second hand AGW solid state hand held picked up at Glasgow (I think it cost me a fiver)- I took 6 locos just for a bit of variation and every one would run so slowly that you could barely see it moving with three 50' cars attatched - the motor literally cogging over - DCC simply isn't needed, for smoth slow running - Flak jacket and tin helmet on!

The AGW Controllers were very good indeed, its a shame they weren't on the market for very long. 

Having tried DCC I've gone back to conventional control using mainly Gaugemasters, but I also use on old H&M Duette.  Set on Full Wave and High Resistance, it controls my Mashima and Portescap powered locos brilliantly.  I've never used it set to Half Wave, makes the motors buzz horribly so I hate to think what its doing to them!

Cheers, Dave.

Edited September 17, 2013 by DLT

[johnsullivan]

I have an agw  controller which is as good as any and better than many,perhaps sold a little too cheaply?It is  a quality item ,as is this evening star I am hunting gen on;it even tames Athearn Hustlers and Hornby 4 wheelers.

[Dave B]

Hi All

I have tried but failed ( > 1Mb) to attach a picture of the two rheostats in a Duette which I think is from the 60’s, showing the material that Wilfy worries is asbestos, supporting the resistance wire. You can clearly see in this picture that the material is fluffy at the edges and looks as though it is capable of flaking off. I have not for obvious reasons poked it or anything to see if it will give off any dust or particles and at the moment I am wondering what to do about it. Before I retired I had a safety officer I could dump things like this on, but I now have to find out who deals with things like this for the general public.

 

I am certainly not happy about letting my grandchildren near it. It may or may not be asbestos but its friable looking nature could present a health hazard whatever material it is made of. Asbestos can sometimes be coped with if it is sealed away, but I don’t think this can be helpful in this situation because the case cannot be said to be hermetically sealed or anything near it.

[Dave B]

Hi All

Attached is a pic of the rheostat of the Duette that I tried to load in my last post.

[SHMD]

I would advise caution until the substance can be confirmed as safe.

 

To me it looks like card, possibly clay coated.

If it were mine, I would take a sample and analyse it at work where I repair photoelectron XRay spectroscopy instruments.

 

 

Kev.

[DCB]

 H and M variable transformer power units such as the Safety Minor don't have rheostats.

 

The Safety Minors just have a shaft disappearing into the transformer

 

 These give variable voltage, turn the knob and you can measure down to 2.5 volts off load

 

The Clipper, Duette etc are variable resistors with rheostats as shown and will usually measure around 14 volts off load as soon as you turn the knob.  They usually have high and low resistance  and also half and full wave selector switches.

 

I like the Safety Minor with variable voltage as it is much easier to run different locos from different manufacturers double headed.   Crawling slow running is probably better with the Clipper or Duette on half wave , but I was at the NYMR this week and apart from the last 4 feet buffering up to loaded trains I didn't actually see any crawling slow running,

 

The Safety Minor has a drawback in that the maximum voltage and thus power is limited compared to some others.    The plus point is it has a 1 amp cut out and not the point destroying  rail burning 4 amps of DCC, a big consideration if you are building for 25 years retirement and not just a few exhibitions.

[kevinlms]

The Safety Minor has a drawback in that the maximum voltage and thus power is limited compared to some others.    The plus point is it has a 1 amp cut out and not the point destroying  rail burning 4 amps of DCC, a big consideration if you are building for 25 years retirement and not just a few exhibitions.

Huh, I don't understand that at all, why should a point rail be switching 4 Amps? Nor the bit about 25 years of retirement vs. 'a few exhibitions'.

[SHMD]

Huh, I don't understand that at all, why should a point rail be switching 4 Amps? Nor the bit about 25 years of retirement vs. 'a few exhibitions'.

 

I think DavidC is referring to the scenario of a 4A Booster supplying a section which then has a short circuit out on the track somewhere - say a derailment possibly in a point, running a point set the wrong way, etc. If the accumulated total resistance limits the Boosters current to 3.5Amps then the Booster will not cut out.

But 3.5Amps is easily enough to start heating and melting sleepers, wire insulation and even Locos!

 

There are photos on the web showing short damage to high current Boosters.

If using a Booster with high a high current output capability then I would seriously look at having sections, to the track, with their own 'smaller local' current cutouts for this very reason.

 

But a layout planned for a long life AND an exhibition layout Both need high standards of wiring, installation and protection.

 

 

Kev.

[RJS1977]

Did anyone ever find out what the material in the rheostats is?