RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 2, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 2, 2012 We had a little incident today which was dealt with very quickly by two manual boxes - train approached me with red lights displayed on the front (as well as the rear!), I could very easily get the next box to stop him. As a result he only lost three minutes and departed from there with the correct head lights displayed. Any box which controls a large area would miss this potentially - it may seem like a minor incident but in an area with a complex track layout, the wrong lights could be enough for a lookout to miss a train and not be able to give a work group sufficient warning. Also rather worrying for those on the front end to see red lights where there shouldn't be any getting closer at a rate of knots - especially on curved track. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Red lights on the front are/were used as a warning to trains in the other direction of an obstruction on the line, though newer cabs now have a hazard light button which flashes the headlights insteads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesehead Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 The full list being Faversham (EY), Margate (GE), Ramsgate (HE), Canterbury East (CB) and Shepherds Well (SH). All replaced by two workstations in the "new" East Kent Signalling Centre. Faversham is particularly interesting as I think it was the last AEI-GRS supplied turn-push panel in operation on NR. The recovery trains should indeed be on their way to Whitemoor with some of the old signals and location cases for processing. Canterbury East signalbox closed at 2100 on 24th December 2011 and the signals were removed on Boxing Day - the former Down Section Signal (a 2 aspect colour light) and Up Home Signal (lattice post semaphore) were close to my Father's house. Fortunately these were removed in tact by a road railer which could mean the sempahore signal will be preserved. I managed to get some pictures on the last day of sempahores - www.flickr.com/photos/16216391@N05/ As for Faversham this was a unique panel (an early form of NX with, as you say rotary switches and push buttons for route setting) and is destined for the National Railway Museum. Hopefully Shepherdswell will be preserved as it was the last surviving London Chatham & Dover Railway signalbox. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 2, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 2, 2012 Canterbury East signalbox closed at 2100 on 24th December 2011 and the signals were removed on Boxing Day - the former Down Section Signal (a 2 aspect colour light) and Up Home Signal (lattice post semaphore) were close to my Father's house. Fortunately these were removed in tact by a road railer which could mean the sempahore signal will be preserved. I managed to get some pictures on the last day of sempahores - www.flickr.com/photos/16216391@N05/ As for Faversham this was a unique panel (an early form of NX with, as you say rotary switches and push buttons for route setting) and is destined for the National Railway Museum. Hopefully Shepherdswell will be preserved as it was the last surviving London Chatham & Dover Railway signalbox. What is so unique about Faversham Panel - I realise it was one of the earliest NX panels on the Southern but what else is special about it? Sittingbourne had some pretty unusual features as well I believe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesehead Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 What is so unique about Faversham Panel - I realise it was one of the earliest NX panels on the Southern but what else is special about it? Sittingbourne had some pretty unusual features as well I believe. The December 2011 Issue of Modern Railways has an article on East Kent re-signalling. According to this Faversham's panel was unique as the point indicators were electro-mechanical (triangular pointers indicating which way the points are set). Most NX panels have lie of the points indicated by lights. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 2, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 2, 2012 The December 2011 Issue of Modern Railways has an article on East Kent re-signalling. According to this Faversham's panel was unique as the point indicators were electro-mechanical (triangular pointers indicating which way the points are set). Most NX panels have lie of the points indicated by lights. Thanks. I've an idea at least one other panel on the Kent Coast scheme had that feature (Sittingbourne??) - but it was replaced some years ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Leceister defo this holiday 2 new panels at Derby EMCC called Kettering and leceister have taken over Yes you're right. A discussion on the Signalbox forum suggests that the interlockings had deteriorated unexpectedly fast, so what I thought I knew from a couple of years ago was no longer correct. I don't believe any of the trackside stuff has changed so presumably their cables were transferred from the interlocking to a batch of trackside modules in the former relay rooms. This probably means the Leicester area still isn't 25kV immume, but most of the existing trackside stuff may well be replaced as part of freight capacity enhancements (putting back the fourth track) before electrification eventually goes ahead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Also rather worrying for those on the front end to see red lights where there shouldn't be any getting closer at a rate of knots - especially on curved track. I did have a second when I looked and thought I couldn't remember a train on the down, then I realised! Red lights on the front are/were used as a warning to trains in the other direction of an obstruction on the line, though newer cabs now have a hazard light button which flashes the headlights insteads. Certainly not the case here - he was doing line speed! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camberwell Green Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Thanks. I've an idea at least one other panel on the Kent Coast scheme had that feature (Sittingbourne??) - but it was replaced some years ago. I'm not too sure about the style of the panels at Rochester and Rainham as I haven't had a chance to visit them as part of Phase 2 of the East Kent Resignalling yet but the panel at Sittingbourne was replaced as part of the Sheerness branch resignalling scheme and is a modern tile matrix one (albeit still with turn-push route setting). With regard to Cheesehead's post about the Phase 1 recoveries I don't believe that any of the individual signal structures are being preserved - we recover the simple ones in one piece simply because it is the quickest way to do it. Whilst it would be great if Shepherds Well box could be preserved it suffers from being on the wrong side of the railway for convenient access for dismantling/removal and is expected to be demolished within the next few months. Given the even more awkward location of Faversham PSB it will be interesting to see how the panel can actually be extracted and recovered to York. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I'm not going to comment on that... Apart from 'liking' it, I notice! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Apart from 'liking' it, I notice! That's an action not a comment! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 at least 26 are to be listed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted July 26, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 26, 2013 Signal boxes are to be listed - see here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-23451290 and here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23461408. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted July 26, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 26, 2013 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-23451290 Tickles me that some are spoken about in the past tense but are still open ! "Built in 1888, the Bury St Edmunds Yard signal required four resident signal men to work the levers" - one of those random statements made to impress, a lot of small/medium 24 hour cabins required 3-4 men and bigger cabins required a lot more - some of the Chester boxes had 4 men on a single shift ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted July 26, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 26, 2013 Signal boxes are to be listed - see here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-23451290 and here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23461408. I have to wonder how many listed boxes will be the subjects of mysterious fires late at night because they happen to be in the way. http://www.flickr.com/photos/16299801@N03/4171565327/ Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 26, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 26, 2013 Well I suppose the listing is a step in the right direction but it does seem to be based as much on the 'easiest' to preserve as it is upon any particular historical value of a particular design or style - there some real gems that have not been included. But that's partly down to the way the list was put together and the way recommendations from many folk were ignored I suspect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Shippea Hill signal box listed of its own accord - until a modern extension was added. Sadly, its history doesn't guarantee its future http://www.elystandard.co.uk/home/shippea_hill_s_victorian_signal_box_to_be_demolished_1_1753960 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted July 26, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 26, 2013 Shippea Hill signal box listed of its own accord - until a modern extension was added. Sadly, its history doesn't guarantee its future http://www.elystandard.co.uk/home/shippea_hill_s_victorian_signal_box_to_be_demolished_1_1753960 It was still there a few weeks back when I passed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Highams Park (on the Chingford line from Liverpool Street) is locally listed - despite being a post-grouping structure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted July 26, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 26, 2013 Well I suppose the listing is a step in the right direction but it does seem to be based as much on the 'easiest' to preserve as it is upon any particular historical value of a particular design or style - there some real gems that have not been included. But that's partly down to the way the list was put together and the way recommendations from many folk were ignored I suspect. Unfortunately, by their very nature, many signal boxes are in places that make taking care of (or even visiting) them very difficult. There's not much point in listing them, then allowing them to rot, which will, I suspect be NR policy for any they consider inconvenient. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 As no-one's put the complete list on here yet, I'll copy it over from my post on the other thread, now locked. Found the full list on the Guardian site, linked from the BBC, but nothing on Network Rail's site yet: NORTH Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire Hensall, North Yorkshire WEST Bournemouth West Junction, Dorset Lostwithiel, Cornwall Marsh Brook, Shropshire Par, Cornwall Totnes, Devon EAST Brundall, Norfolk Bury St Edmunds Yard, Suffolk Downham Market, Norfolk Skegness, LincolnshireThetford, Norfolk Wainfleet, Lincolnshire Wymondham South Junction, Norfolk SOUTH Aylesford, Kent Canterbury East, Kent Cuxton, Kent Eastbourne, East Sussex Grain Crossing, Kent Littlehampton, West Sussex Liverpool Street, London (owned by London Underground Ltd) Maidstone West, Kent Rye, East Sussex Shepherdswell, Kent Snodland, Kent Wateringbury, Kent No less than 5 from the Strood-Paddock Wood line! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Harrison Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 What exactly is being listed? Just the building or the mechanics inside and around it too? I know once a building is Listed there are such things as Curtilege Listing but I don't think they apply to fixtures and fittings. If we're just saving the empty shells then what exactly is the point- the buildings lose their 'story' as to the hows and whys of their existance in the first place. Surely that is why we preserve buildings in the first place, for their historic interest. How do you keep that interest if you only save the building and not the mechanics, collections etc etc etc? This is the problem sadly with trying to preserve industrial or working buildings- the legislation is set up more for castles and palaces than workshops and signal boxes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 If it's any help, English Heritage say this about "listing" (link) Listing does not freeze a building in time, it simply means that listed building consent must be applied for in order to make any changes to that building which might affect its special interest Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Harrison Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Agreed. At the end of the day it's just another hoop for planners and developers to jump through. The French have a system which dictates a building is listed and held in aspic (and a large area around it too in some cases). What generally happens is that the area (and the building) then go into decline as you can't do anything to make use of it without having to brave excessive beaurocracy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Don't really see the point of listing some of these. Take the ex-LSW box at Bournemouth West Jn. It was never very visible at the best of times, stuck inside Bournemouth Traincare Depot. Now it's hidden behind a new paintshop building so hardly anyone (even railway staff) can see it. What's the point? The list seems very arbitary; not a single ex-Midland example. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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