AberdeenBill Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Hi all, In a recent book, a caption mentions that the footplate crew are looking back toward a distant signal to see if it has cleared after the engine has passed it. Assuming that the crew are really doing this, I presume that this practice was not officially sanctioned, but was it banned in rulebooks? Thanks, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 I have heard similar storys from old footplate men. Obviously not mentioned in the rule book, but no harm, a signalman can't clear a Distant until all signals in advance are first cleared. Mick Nicholson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted October 1, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 1, 2011 As Micknich says, absolutely no harm done, but a driver will typically approach a distant at caution on a "trailing throttle" because as it stands any or all of the stop signals in advance may be at danger - almost certainly one is. If, after he's passed the distant, the signalman is able to clear it, the driver then knows he has the road until the first stop signal of the box in advance. With certain sorts of trailing load, and in certain circumstances, that could be very useful for him, enabling him to return to line-speed sooner, with benefit to timekeeping. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Assuming the driver doesn't lose his head on a low-hanging branch, looking back trying to discern a white signal against a white sky... maybe another reason they trimmed the foliage in those days! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Looking back was an accepted practice at one time. Even after the introduction of AWS or ATC as it is referred to on some of my Eastern Region circuit diagrams there are stories of train crews doing this. Another story i've been told by quite a few ex GN mainline signalmen is of them standing at the top of stairs making a motion like they are frantically riding a racehorse and whipping it's backside as a train passes that has missed the distant and has slowed.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 1, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 1, 2011 Another story i've been told by quite a few ex GN mainline signalmen is of them standing at the top of stairs making a motion like they are frantically riding a racehorse and whipping it's backside as a train passes that has missed the distant and has slowed.... Usual way of doing that on the Western was the Signalman giving a 'right away' hand signal (not that it was ever in the Rule Book of course ). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted October 1, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 1, 2011 Handsignals from drivers on Camp Hill bank when they didn't get the distant are best unreported Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted October 2, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 2, 2011 Signalmen and drivers have not always been the best of mates. In my Control days it was not unknown for an angry signalman to come on the phone, complaining that a driver had indicated something unpleasant as he went past - having felt he'd been delayed unnecessarily, of course. The secondman who actually went up the box steps at London Bridge to give his forthright views on the quality of signalling staff may have regretted it, however, when Harry the Horse picked him up by the lapels and dropped him back down the steps.... None of us understands all the circumstances of the other chap's job on the day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Only a few years ago, when the Bletchley to Bedford 'branch' was still largely semaphore, we used to look back at the distants to see if they'd been pulled off at the last minute. Giving a gentle toot on the horn as we approached them often helped but with so many level crossings and speed restrictions for freights on the line at that time, it wasn't always easy for the Bobbies to pull all their signals off without blocking the roads too much. Ridgemont usually managed to oblige at certain times of the day, but Millbrook always stopped us then pulled off while we'd got the brake well and truly in! I got the unofficial 'right away' from Droitwhich Spa three times last week, once on the up and twice on the down. Approaching the box from the station in the down direction you can't see the colour light signal round the corner that gives access to the single line to Stoke Works Jcn. The Bobbie had stopped me briefly in the platform, then pulled off the two semaphores slowly one after the other.... he then gave me the RA by hand from the window so I knew the colour light would be showing a green aspect before I could see it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted October 3, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 3, 2011 Hi all, In a recent book, a caption mentions that the footplate crew are looking back toward a distant signal to see if it has cleared after the engine has passed it. Assuming that the crew are really doing this, I presume that this practice was not officially sanctioned, but was it banned in rulebooks? Thanks, Bill Not much use with a colour light though I remember a few occasions with the local trip from Birkenhead - Ellesmere Port where the drivers complaints obviously meant he hadn't looked back, to be fair the distant concerned was on a right hand bracket, above the track, and the curve of the line meant he could probably see the home before the distant came back into view anyway (in those days if the home was off the drivers tended to treat it as if the distant was clear anyway) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Adrian Vaughn tells some very good tales about "dropping them down the chimney" in his various books about his signalling career - well worth the read if anyone out there hasn't already done so............and the story at Oxford in the fog whilst shunting I always keep fresh in my head when dealing with the need for very clear communication & understanding between staff..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggesford box Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I believe on the Western distants where unoficially referred to as back boards which would fit with drivers looking back to see if they had come off after passing them, though as someone said, not much use with a colourlight! At Abergavenny, more years ago than I care to remember, we used to wave a newspaper out of the widow or a white light from side to side after dark if an up train had missed the distant being at the foot of Llanvihangel bank. One of my abiding memories is a parp on the horn and a friendly wave from the guard as the driver opened a 25 wide open to get as mich a run at the bank with a rake of Minfits from East Usk to Crewe. If you did this nowadays you would probably be reported and Medscreened! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted January 4, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2012 I believe on the Western distants where unoficially referred to as back boards I've also heard a few drivers on the Birkenhead Joint complain that the "flippin back 'un was on" - flippin being a translation of a well known railway term, often used for emphasis. If you did this nowadays you would probably be reported and Medscreened! I used to work signal boxes, occasionally with bosses in them, and frequently with bosses in the next boxes, and I wasn't even a BR employee, never mind a signalman (although I did go to signalling school but that's another story !) - gawd knows what would happen nowadays, the boxes I've visited recently (over the last few years) have almost all been staffed by nervous bobbies pleading with me not to publish the photos, one wouldn't let me take any in case he got into trouble for it, and I never get a sniff of pulling a lever or working the blocks anymore. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggesford box Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Hi beast, I am afraid it is just the way of the world nowadays. It is probably more noticeable on the railway having always had a large number of 'unofficial' people about. Management themselves are probably scared if anything happened or if they appeared to be seen to be condoning irregular working. Don't forget we are also split into different factions nowadays often seeming to expand more effort into scoring points off of each other than working together. The old days of drivers and signalmen covering for each other are gone even before you make allowances for voice and events recorders and delay attribution. Some things may have been gained but for a grey head like me it seems an awful lot has been lost. Anyway, thats enough of a digression from the original subject! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted January 8, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 8, 2012 Aberdare-Severn Tunnel return jobs sometimes took the up relief from Radyr-Maesmawr. There was a large S bend just above Treforest Estate station, where the up relief Maesmawr (fixed) distant was. If we could fit them in, then they went over to the up main as soon as possible. Many times hanging out of the window, giving them the right away, as they saw the us slightly before the up relief starter. happy days..... Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Years ago I worked Agecroft box where the Up splitting distants were a hefty 1586 yards back from the home signals, way off around a bend and with a bridge about 300yds from the homes nicely obscuring the view. If the distant was at caution, the brakes were well and truly on when the trains came out from under the bridge and the home signals became visible to the driver. The lazier signalmen who worked there would quite often sign off the distants as "too heavy to pull" and it would be a day or so before the S&T would come round, test the signal and sign it back on again, whilst passing comments on the idleness of some the bobbies there. This would invariably cause problems with the various empty but long and heavy class 25 hauled van trains that ran that route into Manchester in the early '80s. On one occasion 5M20 crawled under the bridge with about 20 vans on doing about 15mph, saw that the home and starter was off and duly opened the throttle wide. This produced more noise than accelleration and the train was still doing about 15 when it passed the box. To my amusement, the second man had is feet up on the desk and was holding a large piece of card up in the cabside window with a very unrepeatable word written in large black letters..... On another occasion, (same train, same problem), the driver decided to voice his displeasure by sounding the horn as he passed the home signal....unfortunately for him, he must have tugged the horn lever so hard it stuck on. I could see him as he passed desperately trying to shut it up! It was still blaring quite well as he trundled through platform 16 in Manchester Victoria. I knew this as the signal man at Vic West rang me as it was passing him.! Happy days JF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIP OO Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Usual way of doing that on the Western was the Signalman giving a 'right away' hand signal (not that it was ever in the Rule Book of course ). On the S&D, the signalman 'showed the engine crews the duster'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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