S.A.C Martin Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Exactly the point I made earlier in the thread, Jim. I've nothing against the loco, but if it wasnt for CoT's claim to the speed record, it would never even have seen preservation. Don't forget - its own company wasn't that bothered about its survival. It took the LNER to preserve it for its York museum. That says something to me about both companies attitude to preservation. And thank goodness it was - one of the few GWR engines that transcends the boundaries of region. Gorgeous locomotive, particularly in its current livery. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torn-on-the-platform Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Will the City be released as a normal run Bachmann loco with different name and number? They all get withdrawn such along time ago and we're told time and time again that theres very little interest in pre BR. It will be interesting to see if Bachy do or not. W.R.T. the survival of the class, I'm sure that without the NRM's intervention the City wouldn't really be considered, but as Coachmann says, the tooling's made, they may as well use it! Even if the demand is relatively small I'm sure they can release a variant every other year or so in small numbers. It really is a top end model and it would be such a waste to confine it to the NRM's shop forever! I would imagine that the we have the NRM's special edition to thank for the forthcoming Dukedog. I'm not sure how similar the frames are but they would have certainly shown that outside framers can be done well in R-T-R. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave flint Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I'm sat outside the NRM right now, having enquired about reserving a model. they're not taking orders directly, as they've "been delayed until December". Not only that, they're putting their christmas tree up, my first sighting this year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 they're not taking orders directly, as they've "been delayed until December". Hang fire on that one please until I can establish any official position tomorrow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 20, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 20, 2011 W.R.T. the survival of the class, I'm sure that without the NRM's intervention the City wouldn't really be considered, but as Coachmann says, the tooling's made, they may as well use it! Even if the demand is relatively small I'm sure they can release a variant every other year or so in small numbers. It really is a top end model and it would be such a waste to confine it to the NRM's shop forever! I would imagine that the we have the NRM's special edition to thank for the forthcoming Dukedog. I'm not sure how similar the frames are but they would have certainly shown that outside framers can be done well in R-T-R. I think the latter point is Bachmann's real benefit from producing 'Truro' - it gave them certain technical/production technique advances which they can turn to good advantage with the oft requested 'Dukedog' without necessarily ever having to make more than the odd run of 'Cities' on their own account. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Don't forget - its own company wasn't that bothered about its survival. It took the LNER to preserve it for its York museum. Pretty good of them, considering it was their own loco that achieved the first authenticated ton Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 The Great Western was the best railway. It is probably not thought about much in railway circles, but it was the only railway of the Big Four not saddled with poor locomotives. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 The Great Western was the best railway. It is probably not thought about much in railway circles, but it was the only railway of the Big Four not saddled with poor locomotives. True. But saddled with such antiquated labour intensive procedures that were totally impractical in later days. Other CMEs had to cut their cloth according to the conditions. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 But saddled with such antiquated labour intensive procedures that were totally impractical in later days Whilst I cannot dissagree, it has to be remembered that the introduction of rocking grates and ashpans only came in after the war on the LMS and LNER and that probably 90% of their locomotives remained as labour intensive as those of the GWR. The GWR probably saw no reason to change as its workforce was very loyal. Nevertheless the company could easily have built its postwar 2-cylinder and 4-cylinder locos with outside walschaert's and rocking grates and it stud would still have been up to date if not ahead of the game. (Interesting idea for models). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 20, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 20, 2011 True. But saddled with such antiquated labour intensive procedures that were totally impractical in later days. Other CMEs had to cut their cloth according to the conditions. Bernard But a big advantage the Western had was that as far as possible it didn't waste the expensive time of Drivers and Firemen on work that could be done by much cheaper Shed Labourers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 One daft thing the GWR had was righthand drive. So what? Well, considering most people are born right-handed, people have to work at firing left-handed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coppercap Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 One daft thing the GWR had was righthand drive. So what? Well, considering most people are born right-handed, people have to work at firing left-handed. The GWR wasn't the only railway using right hand drive, was it? For a start, wasn't the Midland Railway r/h drive, with the LMS (or maybe it was the Midland itself?) changing over locomotives gradually to left hand drive? There were probably other r/h drive companies too.......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 The GWR wasn't the only railway using right hand drive, was it? For a start, wasn't the Midland Railway r/h drive, with the LMS (or maybe it was the Midland itself?) changing over locomotives gradually to left hand drive? There were probably other r/h drive companies too.......... Oh dear.......It pays to read a few more recent entries then you would see we were discussing GWR locomotives. Did you honestly think I didnt know about the other companies? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 As I seem to have led the Compound thread off topic, I'll steer it back now! Thinking ahead, I've been searching out photos of ex Midland Compounds in BR days. This shot has turned up of 41001 in early BR days still retaining verticle-sided cylinder support bracket covers (those boxes beside the smokebox) and Deeley tender. (It was coupled to a rebuilt bogie tender in late LMS days so it shows one has to take care). I'll need a short-ish LMS chimney and pop safety valves but might get away with filing down the dome. Rainstrips will need to be added at the edges of the roof.... (Photo R H G Simpson) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebottle Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 As I seem to have led the Compound thread off topic, I'll steer it back now! Nicely, Coach! Proper respect on this website. Does anybody remember the occasion sometime in the eighties when Yorkshire Television's "Calendar" local news programme decided to celebrate the LMS? I suppose it must have been the sixtieth anniversary of its birth, or something like that. "Now, we're going over to the Railway Museum at York, where we've got a leading railway historian to tell us all about the wonderful LMS railway". And there, positioned in front of the Midland Compound, was David St John Thomas. We were treated to a veritable firework display of invective and denigration, and left in no doubt that the LMS was the evil empire of the railway world. Mr Thomas finished with a dismissive wave at the engine, the model of which is now so eagerly awaited by many RMwebbers, and said that this was typical of the antediluvian monstrosities foisted on the poor travelling public while the Great Western Railway (blessed be its name) was building locomotives unsurpassed in the history of engineering. I paraphrase and expurgate, of course. I couldn't possibly do justice to the magnificence of his philippic. Oddly, as an LMS fan, I was immensely cheered by the performance, with a final chortle at the expression on the face of the hapless YT anchor man, who looked as though he'd literally been gobsmacked. I only wish we'd had a VCR at the time... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Hang fire on that one please until I can establish any official position tomorrow. I've exchanged emails with the museum this morning and all retail staff should have a Q&A sheet available which advises that delivery should be around late October/early November. No delays were mentioned in the response. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave flint Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Hmmm ! Does this sheet mention anything about pre-ordering in the museum shop, for those of us wishing to sneak a purchase past SWMBO ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Flying Pig Posted October 21, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 21, 2011 As I seem to have led the Compound thread off topic, I'll steer it back now! Unheard of! Rainstrips will need to be added at the edges of the roof.... Rivetted smokebox wrapper too, I'm afraid, coach as the NRM model appears to be flush rivetted. There seems to be some detail change on the firebox cladding as well, with another rivetted panel added and a pipe or control rod removed compared with 1000. Personally I prefer Deeley and Fowler cabs without the lower rainstrip, but no doubt the crews would have disagreed! If not using the front coupling is there enough room ahead of the bogie wheels to move the lifeguards from the bogie to the mainframes which is a characteristic feature of this and many Midland engines right up to the Baby Scots? You'd probably have to hack off the NEM socket so it wouldn't be a reversible mod, but I'd guess that the Compounds were more piloting than piloted by the 1950s. BTW - is 41001 still red in that photo? It looks like there's still lining around the front steps at least. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 BTW - is 41001 still red in that photo? It looks like there's still lining around the front steps at least. It is probably the result of unsharp mask and is most likely black. I had noticed the cosmetic changes you referred to and will do as puch as possible. Snap head rivet smokebox wrappers were the norm on after 1923 and the Midland examples got this type too when the smokebox became due for replacement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Hmmm ! Does this sheet mention anything about pre-ordering in the museum shop, for those of us wishing to sneak a purchase past SWMBO ? I (eventually) placed my order at the NRM in person on Tuesday 11th October - the first day that on-line orders were being accepted. I was initially told by the shop assistant that orders could only be made on-line, but persistence and a request to see the retail manager proved that order forms were available in a drawer below the till !! Be insistent, if necessary. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 The NRM shop web site seems to be in confusion. It tells who to make cheques out to but when e-mailing the shop for P&P rates, I got this reply: "Unfortunately the Order Line only accepts Credit or Debit card payments. If you wish to pre-order a Midland Compound ansd (sic) pay by cheque then you would need to ring the NRM shop and they would be able to advise you further on how to order the said item. The contact number is 08448 153 139, this will put you through the museum and they can transfer you to the shop. I hope this answers your query. Kind regards (Signature redacted) National Railway Museum Customer Services www.nrmshop.co.uk " So the shop's web site is obviously not the place to ask questions of the shop (Thinks - Is there a 'confused' smiley somewhere?). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted November 1, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 1, 2011 I would imagine that the we have the NRM's special edition to thank for the forthcoming Dukedog. I'm not sure how similar the frames are but they would have certainly shown that outside framers can be done well in R-T-R. The respective sets of outside frames are not the same, as it happens, one noticeable feature is that one is longer than the other. I once kit-bashed an Airfix kit into a Dukedog, using a K's whitemetal boiler, at which point I became aware of the differing frame lengths, but not enough to make a huge difference, visually (unfortunately with the passage of over 30 years, I can't recall off the top of my head which loco featured the longer frames, and which the shorter). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave flint Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Well, yet again I am in York on business, yet again I'm sat outside the NRM, and yet again I've been told by the two shop assistants that there is no way to pre order in the shop, only online. I fibbed a little and said I'd been "told on the phone" that there was a list under the counter, but just got a sheepish "no" in response. They also stated that the model has been delayed due to "problems at the port". Getting a little fed up with the retail staff now. They do have a model on display though..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 They also stated that the model has been delayed due to "problems at the port". Sorry to hear you've still had the run-around in the shop Dave. Speaking to the NRM last week there may have been some delays from the timescale quoted at the launch (although I chose not to be so specific in my review) but my understanding is that the Compounds are approaching the point of being shipped from Bachmann to the fulfilment centre so they're hopefully not too far away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 7, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 7, 2011 Sorry to hear you've still had the run-around in the shop Dave. Speaking to the NRM last week there may have been some delays from the timescale quoted at the launch (although I chose not to be so specific in my review) but my understanding is that the Compounds are approaching the point of being shipped from Bachmann to the fulfilment centre so they're hopefully not too far away. I must be getting old - in my lexicon a 'fulfillment centre' had very little to do with model railways Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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