Benjamin Brady Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Hi all Just a quick topic really about the Great Western sleeper when it used to be in the Merlin livery I have been unable to track any images of it in this livery and was wondering if anyone had any photos of it or any information as to its formation, if it ran with a MK1 BG at the front and MK2s or just the MK2. Many Thanks Benjamin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Triang Paul Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Working at PZ i should know this - BUT I DONT !! It was before my time here. Lima did do the mk3 slep in Merlin livery BUT after a quick internet search, i cant seem to find ANY photos. The 47s were the first to go from Merlin to Fag lasting less than 2 years at most. Will check at work and reply tomorrow !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium nightstar.train Posted November 7, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 7, 2011 As far as I know (and have modelled) the formation was 4 or 5 Mk3 sleepers, a Mk2 lounge car, SO and BSO. I believe at some times one of the sleepers was detached/added at Plymouth by a shunter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nile_Griffith Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Seem to remember this question coming up a while ago and someone suggesting that possibly the only coaching stock to receive the 'Merlin" logo where the Mk3 Sleepers and HST stock maybe these services where considered the flagship services and where re-liveried first. Anyway, it would seem that the existence of "Great Western" as an operating body was relatively short, before becoming "First Great Western" and at that point of change the non sleeper coaching stock used was still in intercity raspberry ripple livery. So any subsequent repaints went from intercity to FGW fag packet livery............. Thats what I recall as being described, but hopefully someone may have the correct information. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Triang Paul Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Having ask a few oldies at Long Rock, the opinion is they went straight from IC to Fag. Whilsts HSTs will change livery quickly, in the case of the repainting into blue, the Sleeper stock was the LAST to be treated. There may have been the odd mk2 in Merlin as GW at the time ran other loco hauled sevices too. This makes the Lima model in Merlin livery fictional........ . Of course, as they ran after dark, photos seem to be scarce....... . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted November 9, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 9, 2011 There were 3 or 4 photos of them (at least 2 iirc) on fotopic I have modelled one (a respray of a part sanded down Hornby model in fag packet repairing the ivory and adding the buff). One day I may do the tags I need to complete my hst... At least one photo showed it with an intercity mk1 bg at Plymouth in 99 Edit: just to reinforce that, they definitely did carry the livery and the Lima model (poor reproduction of livery colours aside) is accurate. However, the amount of time the livery was carried for was very short and the mk2s did not carry it (at least a heck of a lot of research for however slight a mention of merlin mk2s came up with nothing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted November 11, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 11, 2011 I both lived within sight of the railway at Hayle and was a frequent user of the Night Riviera in the years between IC and fag packet. The formation was cut down from 6 "wakers" including a buffet (sometimes a Mk1 RMB, more often a TSOT and with a BSO, 3TSO and an FK forming the rest) and five sleepers to just BSO+TSO+RLO+4SLEP with all seated accommodation then standard class. The rear-most sleeper was dropped off at Plymouth and picked up on the way back. A BG was often included until around 1985 but was uncommon in more recent years. Early Mk2 stock in b/g gave way to air-cons (which went from b/g to IC) as they became available. Before sectorisation the "wakers", invariably the 6-coach formation described, were detached upon arrival at Paddington and worked the 06.00 to Manchester Piccadilly, returning to Paddington late afternoon and being serviced at Old Oak Common before reattaching to the sleepers there and being shunted to Paddington for the down service. The set which ended up at Penzance also had its day coaches used for a round trip to Plymouth and, I believe for a couple of years, went back to London as a different set of 6 worked a down mid-day train as a balance. During the fag packet era a further sleeping car was removed from the rake except on Friday nights meaning the train was just load 6 to / from Plymouth and a meagre load 5 through Cornwall. At that time it was easy to feel the service was being run into the ground. Staff morale was low, it was sometimes hard to book a ticket as the service allegedly wasn't included on the appropriate database and the stock was tired. Motorail vans briefly added additional loading during GWT's experiment with them, albeit they were almost empty and contributed little to the total number of passengers conveyed. It wasn't until the franchise was re-let and FGW as they had become had the "Beds" firmly written into that franchise (when they had apparently hoped for the reverse) that any serious marketing effort and revamping went into the service. It is now back to 5 sleepers some nights and often booked out. The livery was a faded and careworn IC until very late in the Merlin era, possibly in anticipation of their expected (by GWT at least) withdrawal, when the sleepers finally got a lick of paint and new bedding. This lasted barely a year IIRC before morphing into fag packet so pictures of a Merlin-livery Night Riviera would be rather uncommon. Mixed-livery formations did turn up occasionally during the repaints as an entire set could not be withdrawn from service at once given there are only two for two trains with very little spare stock although I do recall a picture appearing of a full rake of fag packet stock being hauled back to Penzance from the paintshops. I concur that the Mk2 aircons never received Merlin livery and ran in IC until repainted into fag packet. However the Mk2 stock got fag packet quite early meaning the duration of IC wakers with green sleepers was short-lived indeed. Locos seldom matched the rolling stock for livery until everything was fag packet green. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Brady Posted November 15, 2011 Author Share Posted November 15, 2011 HI all Thank you all for the information I think that that has finally cleared up a questions which have been puzzling me for some time. Ben Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted November 15, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 15, 2011 We were on the Sleeper last Friday night from London down to Penzance. Had a good night on it. The beds seem to be more comfortable than on past trips. Staff were friendly and service was good. The green 57 was at the front. Looking forward to doing it again next year. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted November 15, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 15, 2011 The wake-up snacks have improved as well. In BR days you got tea or coffee and biscuits (with a morning paper as well in first class). Now that the service is effectively all one class it is normal to be offered juice as well with a croissant or bacon roll. The beds are much the same Mk3 berths as they have always been but FGW has at least replaced the age-worn bedding in recent years and did so again when the sleepers gained "dynamic lines" livery. They also had what I think was a heavy overhaul at the time so are in pretty good shape currently. There were times when under BR IC sector when the then youthful sleeping cars looked, felt and sometimes smelt unpleasantly old. We now make an annual trip home and the overnight train trip to Cornwall is a significant part of that. Apart possibly from the Fort William sleeper not a lot on the UK rail network beats a relaxing glass of wine in the lounge car before retiring and waking up to tea and bacon rolls / coffee and croissants and seeing St. Ives Bay out of the window on one side followed soon after by Mounts Bay on the other. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted November 15, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 15, 2011 Yes the bacon rolls weren't bad. There was a choice of cereal aswell which I don't remember in the past. Saturday morning was a nice sunny start with the sun shining down on Mounts Bay as we pulled into Penzance... a lovely scene. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Triang Paul Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 The refresh was a complete overhaul incl electrics. There is talk of a trial using quilts instead of blankets but no start date as yet. There is great pride in the Riviera amongst its regular staff both in and out of the public view. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charles2 Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Hi! Paul - most summers we spend about 4-5wks in the Pz area (previously up by Germoe/Praa, since last year Marazion) and my boys & I spend most evenings at Pz to see the sleeper (or as my 8yo says it , the 'Beeper' !) and other trains that happen to be there! My point is, the FGW staff we have spoken to are some of the most helpful and they have offered my youngest the chance to see in a sleeper carriage - which he gets very shy and coy about (& won't go in!). They show a great deal of pride in the Riviera service and I think that is a great thing to see (could be why I'm modelling Pz & the first stock items I got were 57602, Mk3 sleepers & Mk2 carriages in fag packet!)! Thanks! Charles Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Triang Paul Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Its always good to hear feedback for something you do ! With the new franchise there are several options open for the NR and all are positive - even new locos and stock ???!! See posts on here and other forums. We wait and see but we know the service is safe and will be invested in furthur. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted January 29, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 29, 2012 One of the best investments which might be made is in a couple of extra sleepers and sitters for each set. Load isn't a problem on the very generous timings it gets but loadings seem to be still on the up and could be promoted even further if there was actually accommodation on the trains. The formation used to be 6 "sitters" or "wakers" including the buffet car; allowing for the different capacity of Mk1 / 2 and Mk 3 coaches four or five would now be a match for that with the lounge car acting as the "wakers" buffet. Though where more Mk3 sleeping cars might come from is a moot point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted December 28, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 28, 2018 Very useful thread with post 7 neatly answering a question I had been researching confirming the 1998 foramtion as Loco Mk2d BSO Mk2d SO Mk2d RLO Sleep (FO) Sleep Sleep Sleep (to Plym) My only question is does anyone have a photo of the Mk2d RLO, I am interested to see what differences there are (internal and external) to a standard Mk2d (presumably an FO) in order that I can modify a coach before I spray it in the new year. My formation will have a loco in GWT, Intercity mk2s, 2 sleepers in Intercity and the final 2 in GWT. As an aside on the Mk2 liveries, I have heard a rumour from a few sources (all be it with no evidence to back it up) that the first set of mk2s was repainted into Merlin livery, but other than a post refurbishment test ran never left the works before being fitted with the new FGW vinyls. Hence how quickly it received Fagpacket livery after the First Group takeover. Would be very interested to hear confirmation of this should anyone know more... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomag Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 My only question is does anyone have a photo of the Mk2d RLO, I am interested to see what differences there are (internal and external) to a standard Mk2d (presumably an FO) in order that I can modify a coach before I spray it in the new year. The buffets were not clasified as RLO They started out as Mk2d TSOs, which were converted to TSO(T) in 1981 in the 6600-6619 series (Tops AG202). In 1986 five were converted to RMBT for CC services; they had a proper buffet counter, microwave etc along the lines of the Mk2F RFO. 50 was added to the number 6652-6665 (AN207). FGW futher refurbised them and converted them to RMBF in the range 6720-6724 (AN103). A drawing of the buffet section while as a RMBT can be found in a post by Flood at http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/9279-information-on-mk2-micro-buffets/&do=findComment&comment=1928220 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted December 28, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 28, 2018 Thanks Were windows played over in the TSOT conversion (behind the counter)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Brady Posted December 30, 2018 Author Share Posted December 30, 2018 Good Morning, I did get around to finishing my sleeper set in Merlin. I've made all the sleeper GWT Merlin though as I do like the livery with a Marlin 47. I'll add a photo this evening. In the mean time there is this video I've found on your tube if the ECS departing Paddington. Benjamin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Brady Posted December 30, 2018 Author Share Posted December 30, 2018 There are also some clips or the sleep on this video. However the closest to Merlin you get is a Class 47 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted December 30, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 30, 2018 That video is incredibly useful, I always forget to check YouTube as a resource for research. From that I now have a complete formation to model (just need to reprofile the 3 mk2ds and paint them plus the two sleepers in Intercity) This project will be finished in 2019! No numbers but great weathering inspiration Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Pilotman Posted December 30, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 30, 2018 There are also some clips or the sleep on this video. However the closest to Merlin you get is a Class 47 https://youtu.be/dj2UxPqQvF8 A three hour video of trains in Cornwall; that’s my afternoon sorted... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted December 30, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 30, 2018 A three hour video of trains in Cornwall; that’s my afternoon sorted... Some really good stuff on a quick scan through. Is it all late 90s or a mix Will watch through properly later screen grabbing useful formations for future reference Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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