RMweb Premium Kris Posted November 17, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 17, 2011 That's a very impressive start that you have made there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
devondynosoar118 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Sounding like a parrot I can only echo Kris above, excellent work so far, keep the pics coming! Love the dockside warehouse picture and nice work on the setts, carving them in 2 mm is a real mission. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsforever Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Wow indeed very good modeling and in my favourite county more pics and keep up the good work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinW Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Have to say this looks to be a great project and you have made a superb start with the scenics, will continue to watch with interest. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanLister Posted November 17, 2011 Author Share Posted November 17, 2011 Thank you for the supportive comments; they're much appreciated and of great value on this rather scary voyage into the unknown. Perhaps I should have started with something a bit less complicated, but I've waited a lot of years for the time and space to do something like this, and if I spend too long trying to build up my skills I'll have no eyesight or manual dexterity left to use them. So, onwards......who knows, in about ten years I may even try to build a loco! Seriously, what I really need is some lessons in painting; some of the stuff on this site just leaves me wondering where to start...................hint: good advice most welcome! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Tim: the line up to Tweedmouth station doesn't exist in my hypothesis. Let me explain (this is where it could get very boring unless you're particularly interested in the railway history of this area) Not boring at all - I think it's essential that a might-have-been layout has a well-justified and thought out 'history'. Incidentally Tim, I live about a mile from Berwick and have bridge number 7 on the Kelso branch in my garden. If you need photos of relics or whatever for your Coldstream project, I'll help if I can. Coldstream is a few miles away, and Cornhill, where the station was, is only about ten minutes in the car. Thanks for the offer. It's a long way from Shrewsbury to Cornhill, but I've made four (I think) visits over the years. I've got lots of photos of the station and parts of the goods yard before it closed, but if you happen to have (or know where there are) photos of the coal drops and cattle dock, then I'd be very happy! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanLister Posted November 18, 2011 Author Share Posted November 18, 2011 The 'Should-Have-Been' Design Challenge. This post is a bit of 'thinking out loud' but I'd welcome any opinions. When you create a should have been or could have been layout, you're in a very interesting position. On the one hand, you've a great opportunity to improve on reality and the creative freedom to develop the hypothesis in any way you wish, and no-one can tell you it's not accurate. On the other hand, your location is a real place, and should be recognisable as such, with the developments brought by your version of history influencing the reality in a convincing manner. Hopefully, people who know the place will recognise it, and appreciate your improvements! If the model is to satisfy, you also need to acknowledge the railway and architectural story of the area, and your changes should fit with the history of what is, to all intents and purposes, a real place. An illustration of this multi-faceted dilemma, which I find so fascinating and is a major driving force with the layout: Spittal Quay had a small fish market with, I believe, a single wooden shed. In bringing the railway to Spittal, I've allowed the fishing industry to grow and given it access to the ECML. A bigger fish market is needed, similar to this one I photographed at Newhaven (the real one near Edinburgh, not that airy fairy cheap copy on the South coast) in the summer, shortly after eating a splendid Italian meal in the other end of it (??). I like this building, and it would be ideal for the location but for one thing.........the architecture. The railway architecture of the B, TD and S will reflect its heritage, that of the Newcastle and Berwick railway and particularly of the NER, which built the branch. Two goods sheds which reflect this heritage: The challenge is to design Spittal's new fish market by blending the functionality of the Newhaven building with the style of the NER buildings. so that I have a building on the quay which works in both senses. I'm going to enjoy this immensely. Maybe I should get out more................ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sykes Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Perhaps if the original fish market was replaced by the NER after the fish traffic had built up over time, you could consider something like the G T Andrews goods shed at Driffield, with its roofed loading area supported on cast-iron columns with open sides. I've always felt it had the look of a market hall. Postulating that the building is a later addition would allow its architectural style to differ from the Newcastle and Berwick originals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanLister Posted November 19, 2011 Author Share Posted November 19, 2011 Thanks for that Steve; I'll have a look at it. It would certainly have been constructed by the NER, probably once the traffic had built up as you say. Built around 1890. perhaps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanLister Posted November 19, 2011 Author Share Posted November 19, 2011 Hi. The morning goods heads into Spittal Yard after drifting along the south bank of the Tweed. Stock is straight out of the box, I'm afraid. with finescale wheels and with DG couplings. Complete focus on layout building at the moment, but I will have a go at weathering these vehicles after some serious research on the forum. Watch this space....... Can anyone advise me on creating and posting video on here? I have a Canon SX30i, which will shoot video footage, but I have no idea what to do with it. I'd like to post a video of some shunting taking place in the goods yard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted November 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 19, 2011 Ian, hi Only just found this thread What a cracking start! I was blown away with that first photo showing the scenics completed - I also admire your discipline for seeing through one area like that (I seem to dabble in many different areas all at the same time but never actually finish something through!) I like the ideas for the layout and there is a nice proportion of landscape to trackwork, one of the benefits of this scale. Although I have never contributed to the VAG, I do read the content and there is excellent advice and support as you say. Now I have found your layout I look forward to follow your progress. Good luck, Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanLister Posted November 19, 2011 Author Share Posted November 19, 2011 Hi Pete, and thanks. Not sure about discipline; it's more the fact that I want to find out what I can do and how to do stuff.......I don't want to leave something till last and then find I can't do it. Hope your efforts with the water on Boxfile Kyle bear fruit; There'll be an estuary frontage of nearly 30' on the B, TD and S and I'm relying on you to work out how to do it for me................I'll build the fishing boats. Fish market has been started........... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted November 20, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 20, 2011 and I'm relying on you to work out how to do it for me.............. so no pressure then... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanLister Posted November 20, 2011 Author Share Posted November 20, 2011 No, no, take your time..........this afternoon will be fine . If you could work out how to capture the interplay between the flow of the river, the tide, a gentle breeze, the wake of a passing boat or two and the ripples caused by the struggles of a drowning Dr Beeching that would be even better.......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 The 'Should-Have-Been' Design Challenge. The challenge is to design Spittal's new fish market by blending the functionality of the Newhaven building with the style of the NER buildings. so that I have a building on the quay which works in both senses. I'm going to enjoy this immensely. Maybe I should get out more................ I think the key is to get into the mind of William Bell. Start at Alnwick with the goods buildings and work through the thought process of the differences required between railway side and public side of the various structures.The granary does bear an uncanny similarity to the one in your first photographs. It's the balance between elegance and functionality that i like in his designs. If I may be picky for a moment. It is rather unusual to use 16t mineral wagons on NER coal drops. They were massively constructed and of a capacity to easily cope with 21t hoppers. These wagons and in an earlier period the 20t wooden version were much more common in the north east. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanLister Posted November 20, 2011 Author Share Posted November 20, 2011 Bernard. Picky is fine; it helps in fact. Once the layout is well under way and I start building stock rather than simply converting RTR for convenience, 21T hoppers will be very near the top of the list. For now, though, they'll have to wait. Sacrilege, I know. Thanks for the words re William Bell. I'm looking at the architecture of the area and period already; I visit Alnwick 5 days a week driving a minibus, which helps!! The maltings in my earlier pics was designed by a Nottingham architect and built by a builder from Warkworth - Greens, I think. I have copies of the plans to work from. Regards Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Worsdell forever Posted November 20, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 20, 2011 Ian, a good place to start would be the NERA 'North Eastern Architecture' series of books by Bill Fawcett, a bit pricey to buy all three at once but one of the best resources there is. I saw a photo recently of a 16t mineral on some coal depots (though of course that would be quite rare), but can't remember where now... Keep up the good work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanLister Posted November 20, 2011 Author Share Posted November 20, 2011 Thanks for that Mr Worsdell. I've looked enviously at the NERA books by Bill Fawcett a time or two. Christmas present, perhaps.........I've actually realised, with help from here, that the N and B buildings I pictured above are inappropriate; they were built in the 1840s, and the dock branch didn't appear till the 1870s. The Alnwick to Cornhill branch is contemporary to my layout, and some of the buildings on there still exist. Wooler: Easier architecture to model, by the look of it. Good job I found out!! Thanks to Bernard Lamb. I've got photos of 16t minerals on the depots in this area, but when the time is right I'll hopefully build some hoppers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted November 21, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 21, 2011 No, no, take your time..........this afternoon will be fine . If you could work out how to capture the interplay between the flow of the river, the tide, a gentle breeze, the wake of a passing boat or two and the ripples caused by the struggles of a drowning Dr Beeching that would be even better.......... One thing that has occurred to me with the PVA method is that the surface needs protecting when finished. Whilst trying to remove the quay wall the other day, the knife blade touched the 'water' surface and it created a huge white patch... I think Chris Nevard recommends a coat of Gloss varnish to finish (and protect?) the PVA once done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanLister Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 One thing that has occurred to me with the PVA method is that the surface needs protecting when finished. Whilst trying to remove the quay wall the other day, the knife blade touched the 'water' surface and it created a huge white patch... I think Chris Nevard recommends a coat of Gloss varnish to finish (and protect?) the PVA once done. Thanks again Pete. I'm going to try various test methods before deciding how to do it, and it'll be a while yet. I have a quayside to build first, and I want boats etc in place before I add the water, so they look 'planted' or whatever you do with boats. As with the rest of the methods, I'm going to completely finish board one with water etc; I don't want to find it's really tricky to do when I have 30' of it to do! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanLister Posted December 6, 2011 Author Share Posted December 6, 2011 Hello again. The real Spittal had quite a lot of business with fish. There were the Tweed salmon of course, netted in the river and estuary and mostly shipped to London by fast sailing ship, often in ice, imported, amazingly, from Scandinavia (though I suppose it would have been more amazing had it been imported from Africa.......), and there were the herring, caught, pickled and barrelled on the quay and shipped to Germany and Russia; so many that Spittal had a foundry and cooper making barrels and fittings just for the fish. What never happened was the development of a typical North Sea fishing industry; drifters fishing for cod, etc, like at Whitby, Scarborough, North Shields, and a thousand other similar small fishing harbours on the East coast. Too much competition, and the lack of a viable fast rail link to the big markets, even though the ECML was less than a mile away!!! In my changed history of this bit of the coast, things worked out differently, and more interestingly........obviously! I was brought up on local railways in the West Riding and family trips to Scarborough and Whitby, and many of my childhood memories revolve around them. It has always been my plan to model a rail-served North East harbour with a viable fishing industry, and the B, TD and S railway provides me with the opportunity. In my version of the life of this bit of coast, the NER actually bought the dock at Tweedmouth when it was built in 1874, and developed the branch, the dock and Spittal yard as outlined earlier in the thread. Spittal Yard has a fish quay, and the branch provides easy access to the ECML at Berwick, just 2 miles away. So the fishing industry grew, and helped to feed the people of Edinburgh, the Border towns, the Tyne and Tees industrial areas and the West Riding. The fish quay on the B, TD and S will ship out, generally 4 or 5 vans of fish a day. One will go up the branch to Kelso and St Boswells, and the others, mainly Blue Spots, will join fast fitted freights on the mainline. Most of this will be night time traffic, with empties coming in on the daily trip workings from Berwick. The fish quay is at the front of the Spittal board, and the William Bell-designed and NER-built Fish Market, built in 1890 and with the awning added a few years later is the hub of this activity. In modelling terms, it's the only bit of the fish quay built so far, is my first decent sized building at about 20cm long, and is nearly finished: And a night time shot, without the people or the fish, yet. Watch this space.......... . It still needs to be detailed, and to be planted in its place on the quay. Ian L. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted December 6, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 6, 2011 That building is lovely looks years old not just built. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwinewt Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 I agree - that looks really good! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted December 7, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 7, 2011 That looks terrific Ian...care to share any details of its construction? Wonderful detail Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanLister Posted December 7, 2011 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 That looks terrific Ian...care to share any details of its construction? Wonderful detail Thanks for your comments; they're appreciated. Details of construction: I don't like plastic stonework. even though there are some beautifully finished and very convincing examples on RMWeb. I think it may be my lack of painting expertise/experience, but all the things I've tried look like plastic....... I also really like the 3D texture of stonework; I was brought up with it. So I decided scribing or embossing was the way to go. At first I tried DAS, but couldn't get it to adhere, stay flat or work effectively. The light weight Polycell plaster I used for the setts and pavements shown earlier in the thread seemed easy to work with, so I tried some test pieces. Here's one with the plaster (coloured with yellow ochre to see what happened) added by palette knife to a scrap of plasticard coated with dilute PVA which had been left to dry for about 10 mins. It's been left to harden for about 20 mins and then pressed down/smoothed with finger end...very easy to do. What I like is that it's easy to work, yet retains its shape and doesn't crumble at the edges. Here's a piece, on mounting board this time, with some scribing and painting experiments...about 15 mins work, but I started to get excited by some of the textures and effects which were easily possible. Scribing done with a ruler and blunt needle held in a pin vice, and the surface brushed with an old toothbrush afterwards to soften and age the scribe lines. If the surface is dampened slightly, more ageing is possible: A third test was to see if this technique would create anything like drystone or rough coursed walling. Scribed freehand, and worked more with the toothbrush produced this, with evidence of overdoing the toothbrushing in places: The walls of the building were made from 1mm plasticard and the technique shown above was used to create the stonework. They were joined around a platform base of 5.5mm ply, and the corner stonework was added. Painting is simply a couple of acrylic washes, followed by some powdered pastel brushed into the pointing, and a small amount of Modelmates weathering dyes added by brush in places. Painting is something I need to get a whole lot better at!!! The outside walls were scribed using a ruler: Whereas the inside walls were scribed freehand, to create a less formal feel: Please bear in mind that all the shots were taken from about an inch away, so normal viewing range would probably look better. That's my excuse, anyway. The roof is 1mm plasticard braced inside and 4mm x 2mm slates cut en masse from 80gsm printer paper were added, working to scribed lines and attached by picking up on a knife point and placing onto dilute pva. Overscale I know, but I like the texture and feel of age and slight dilapidation created, and again, I don't like the plastic sheen. One thing I really don't like at exhibitions is strips of roof tiles; they never look right to me and I wouldn't be able to make them work. The roof had a coat of acrylic greyish paint, a dusting of pale grey powdered pastel to highlight the edges, and then moss green and slate blue Modelmates dyes brushed on in places. It's not finished yet. The office walls are simply fabricated from plasticard, not as accurately as I'll do the next lot, and the support structure for the awning was constructed from Plastruct girders with brackets made from slivers of plastic tube and strip. The platform surface is - you guessed it - the lightweight filler again. The fish market has been my first ever building of any size and detail, and an experiment in developing techniques to use for the rest of the buildings; there will be some,big,challenging, imposing and potentially very satisfying ones to build. I just hope I live long enough................................. Once it's planted, I'm going to build a length of quayside, and the cobbled/ concreted/ ash ballasted surface of the area around it. And I have an Artitec fishing boat kit on the way, which will if nothing else provide me with a hull master for scratchbuilding my own., though I think with some modification it might be suitable for the period/purpose of the layout. Back to the fishbox production line......... Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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