number6 Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 What I found interesting about the 1970s works was the splitting of Cannon Street from Charing Cross Routes at Borough Market Junction. So you could then only access Cannon St from platforms 1,2, and 3 at London Bridge. So previous to them it was more flexible but more congested. Those of us regulars know whats happening when we get routed towards these platforms on approach to LB as it means a short of destination turnback is imminent. I do understand why you can't add that conflict back into the service just to take a few trains from the Kent coast and Sussex into Cannon Street during the day but... It would be great if you could send perhaps a proportion of CharingX trains into Cannon Street during the day to help with the skipping of LB. I wonder if there was any thought given to perhaps dropping off passengers from Charing Cross bound trains at New Cross and allowing transfer to Cannon Street trains or onto the Overground? Its a long ride in from Orpington that doesn't compare well with turning back at Waterloo or just walking. Or even an additional or diverted service from Tonbridge or Sevenoaks where there is cross platform interchanges. I hate Waterloo East as its such a dogs dinner and it takes so long to get out of the station. I will be trying to exit via Southwark tube - which would save perhaps 10 mins walk... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 More Redhill chaos this morning after a brief shower at 8am froze everything solid. Trains apparently not stopping at Merstham because it's uphill and they aren't sure they'd be able to get them moving again. You really couldn't make this up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted January 7, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2015 It's things like this that make me glad to be retired. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 It's things like this that make me glad to be retired. ... and make me wish I was! I simply cannot wait for the "Meet the Manager" in a couple of weeks time... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 7, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2015 ... and make me wish I was! I simply cannot wait for the "Meet the Manager" in a couple of weeks time... I expect it will be cancelled 'due to operating difficulties' ..... But it really does all sound exceedingly shambolic with very little thought seemingly given to passenger flows and the impact of the work on them which is not something I can remember from past major jobs in London. It might of course simply be down to the sheer weight of traffic to/from London Bridge but looking at it from a distance and through comments and links here I am left with a poor impression of the way it has been phased and managed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 The problem - and solution - is obvious. You have everyone forced left to use the "entry" barriers. 90% of traffic "in" has to cut across "exit" traffic causing delays. Open some of the right hand barriers to entrance and keep exit in the middle, form two queues, problem solved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lurker Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 On a positive note they appear to have made quite a bit of progress over the last two or three weeks. The bridge decking over Borough High Street has now been physically joined to where the new through lines will be. I thought for a second that they had ballasted it over night but they appear to have spread something over the decking (my view is seven floors up and craning my neck to see). a lot of demolition work also seems to have taken place on the platforms that need to be converted to though running. Advice for changing trains seems to suggest Hither Green and New Cross - not that the Sidcup CHX trains call at the latter. Do any? I thought part of the plan was to remove the Spa Road junction so that there were no crossings on the level after the ones between Hither Green and St Johns? Perhaps the New Cross change is a suggestion to get the Overground. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan452 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Just when I thought it was all over as far as Canada Water was concerned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiffy2 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I was at Canada Water in the evening rush on Monday. It was horrific - not helped by the many young men who though that shoving my 64-year old wife out of the way to get on was OK. In my opinion the station should have been closed. It was very dangerous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 Advice for changing trains seems to suggest Hither Green and New Cross - not that the Sidcup CHX trains call at the latter. Do any? I thought part of the plan was to remove the Spa Road junction so that there were no crossings on the level after the ones between Hither Green and St Johns? Perhaps the New Cross change is a suggestion to get the Overground. I suppose I wasn't clear - I was referring to longer distance trains whose last stop on the way in is usually Orpington. All the advice in the leaflets peppering the trains is to pass through LB and return. One would have thought some of that travel could have been diverted before LB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted January 7, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2015 In the news http://www.cityam.com/206599/government-tells-rail-bosses-fix-london-bridge-chaos-urgently Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Latest update from Southern's website Network Rail and Southern apologise to you for the unacceptable disruption and delays at London Bridge this week resulting in severe overcrowding on the concourse. This is not the level of service that you deserve, expect or that we want to deliver. Over the festive break Network Rail undertook 16 days of work rebuilding two new platforms, removing and replacing 3km of track and installing new signalling into London Bridge. This work was completed on time. However, the new timetable has proved challenging to manage so we have reviewed this and made some immediate changes to a small number of evening peak services which will reduce the pressure on the infrastructure and help us to deliver an improved service. The following services from London Bridge will not run this evening, or for the remainder of this week: 16.36 London Bridge to West Croydon 17.06 London Bridge to West Croydon 17.38 London Bridge to West Croydon 18.06 London Bridge to West Croydon 18.36 London Bridge to West Croydon We apologise, this was not an easy decision but we needed to act quickly and passengers using the above services do have reasonable alternatives. Passengers requiring Anerley and Penge West should take a Southern service to New Cross Gate and change for London Overground services. We will monitor the service for the remainder of this week and assess if any longer term changes are required. As a result of the above changes, three services into London Bridge are also withdrawn: 17.12 West Croydon to London Bridge 18.13 West Croydon to London Bridge 17.42 West Croydon to London Bridge We have reviewed with Network Rail, the operation of the station concourse, placed more staff at London Bridge, and implemented additional crowd control measures to separate passengers entering and exiting trains. By the end of the week, we will have additional passenger information screens, so the concourse is used more evenly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted January 7, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2015 I know it's a no win situation but won't that just add more people waiting on the concourse for even fewer trains?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Just like it did on Monday and Tuesday during the evening peaks. One of the big problems is nobody thought to realise that the departure boards are now mostly in front of the closed parts of the concourse so you can't actually see what trains are going where from where you need to wait to be able to get through the barriers once they have a platform - so people then wait inside the barriers perhaps checking national rail's website, clogging up for people coming and going. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted January 7, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2015 Things seem to be escalating over this complete farce which many of us commuters could see coming. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-30709760 Apparently Boris is now getting involved although he won't be interested in South of Coulsdon as that's outside his control. I really am glad I have missed it this week but really adding to not wanting to return to work as my bosses aren't interested in the delays getting into work as one drives from West London (doesn't like train travel) and the other travels from North of London so avoids most of this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted January 7, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2015 Also meant to add that just wait till the South Easten CX service no longer stop after this week for 18 months who now want to use New cross Gate instead of New Cross will just add to the congestion. And no doubt some will continue to say this is all for the good in the long term. Three b***dy years of this crap paying a fortune and potential loss of our jobs in the meantime. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Three b***dy years of this crap paying a fortune and potential loss of our jobs in the meantime. ... if we haven't already given up and found work elsewhere, or topped ourselves in the meantime. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 ... if we haven't already given up and found work elsewhere, or topped ourselves in the meantime. ...or taken over the lease of the Market Porter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 A report on today's mess. http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/southern-network-rail-sorry-london-8398664 Gotta love the casual use of "omnishambles" in a tweet quoted... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted January 7, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2015 I have said this before but will say it again. The TOCs aren't the ones responsible for the reduction I tracks narrow platforms signal failures etc but they don't help themselves by putting positive spin on the situation nor for playing down the delays etc on their websites as they are hopelessly wrong and hence why I use National Rail to check the current delays. However there is No direct means of contacting Network Rail and those responsible except via the TOC s who know are no doubt overloaded with complaints (which they now call 'contacts'). I know that non of the redevolpment is easy but out in the big wide world of private industry we would have been out of work a long time ago as our clients would not employ us again. Trouble is us fare paying passengers have no other choice unless we change jobs and start driving but this is against all the environmentalists and government thinking these days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 7, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2015 I know it's a no win situation but won't that just add more people waiting on the concourse for even fewer trains?? I suspect the idea is to dissuade them from going there at all Ian. I get the impression that there seems to have been far too little thought given to making clear what alternatives exist and how to use them let alone properly organising passenger information at LB itself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted January 7, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2015 Mike I think the problem is that the alternative options are also being dissuaded by those operators such as Overground and Underground as they already saw this coming and are telling their travellers to find alternative routes. Without getting political this is a complete under estimation of the affect of this whole redevelopment that many have seen coming affecting a great part of the Capital and South East Edit Victoria service are being affected by all of this according to various reports. I hate to think how Southern and Thameslink front line staff and drivers are feeling as they will no doubt (and unfairly) be getting the brunt of this Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted January 7, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 7, 2015 ...or taken over the lease of the Market Porter. And turn it into a hotel as well, to save the commute for the next 3 years ir so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted January 7, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2015 And turn it into a hotel as well, to save the commute for the next 3 years ir so. Might just be a very good business venture but don't let them know this incase they are thinking of selling up!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 this is a complete under estimation of the affect of this whole redevelopment that many have seen coming affecting a great part of the Capital and South East When I started this thread it was under the impression that the redevelopment was under-reporting the impact it was going to have on architecture and the build environment [as they say]. I had an inkling that many users of the station would be unaware of the scale of the works and how it would impact them as it is now doing. Who really looks at those [admittedly impressive] computer fly-throughs of the final designs? Most of my fellow travellers don't even seem to know how to open the doors on the train or be able to spot which side the platform is going to be on let alone how timetables, working diagrams or the signalling actually operates. Its to our advantage our interests intersect with our commuting [to some extent]. I'm sure many travellers have no idea of alternative routes being both creatures of habit and to some extent confined by the design of route maps which may or may not help show other ways of getting home. The other issue is the gross overcrowding on trains and platforms even on a good day - Southern and Thameslink trains especially - add a bit of bother and its going to be nasty. The scale of the concourse is also a moot point. The old 70s one was canverous and could swallow hundreds of people. This new one is a death trap when full. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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