London Bridge re-development

[Christopher125]

The draft for the latest 'Route Study' for the Sussex area may be of interest, whose purpose is to identify a range of choices "to accommodate the growth in passenger and freight services whilst maintaining performance"

 

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/long-term-planning-process/south-east-route-sussex-area-route-study-draft-for-consultation/

 

 

Operational planning work for the study suggests if implemented

the interventions detailed below would deliver an additional 6 trains

per hour in the peak over and above the end of CP5 base. If

achieved, this would meet the end of CP6 and end of 2043 Demand

forecasts:

 

• Windmill Bridge Jn (north of East Croydon where the lines to

London Victoria and London Bridge diverge) : Grade separation

of two key remaining flat junctions on fast and slow lines

• East Croydon: Additional platforms and 6th track to Windmill

Bridge Jn

• London Victoria Station – alterations to signalling on approaches

and minor track alterations

• Clapham Junction remodelling of fast line platforms – or

implementation of ETCS and Automatic Train operation (ATO)

for inner area (see section below on Digital Railway)

• Grade separation at Stoats Nest Jn near Coulsdon for services

crossing from the Redhill lines to the fast lines in the northbound

direction

• Track layout alterations north of Gatwick Airport

• Track layout alterations at Haywards Heath

• Improvements to the signalling headways to enable more trains

to operate south of Haywards Heath

 

In addition to these ‘core’ schemes, a number of further schemes

are identified that would bring additional benefits

 

• Grade separation of Keymer Jn (South of Wivelsfield where the

lines to Brighton and Lewes diverge) to allow additional services

to operate all the way from Hove (and beyond) and Lewes (and

beyond) to London as opposed to just from Haywards Heath and

Gatwick Airport inwards)

• Lengthening of the platforms at Reigate to 12-car lengths

• Changes to the track layout immediately south of the station at

Redhill to allow some of the proposed additional services to serve

the Redhill route.

Chris

[Ron Ron Ron]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVFfxfwuXuM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[John M Upton]

Newly released is an extensive summary of changes to London Bridge services on Southern after 4th of January when the next big block is completed:

http://www.southernrailway.com/download/32568.9/january-15-tt/

 

And the Redhill impacts:

http://www.southernrailway.com/southern/news/how-will-redhill-be-affected-from-january/

 

Meanwhile there are four Class 170's heading down south soon to add to the Uckfield services. Not sure where these are coming from but the picture I have seen shows one in First ScotRail livery...  Conversion and refurbishment to Class 171 spec will take place before they enter service though.

[cromptonnut]

... meanwhile, I am told that there should be something on the BBC London news this evening (not 100% confirmed) about the "Redhill impact" of the new changes thanks to the local rail users group who are organising a protest campaign as Redhill is bearing the brunt of the new timetable changes.

[The Lurker]

One thing I have pondered recently as I have sat outside London bridge and glanced at the distance markers; these measure in chains from London Bridge (I'm looking out over the Brighton lines) and I noticed that the marker for 0m 19chains is further (several chains in fact) from the station than the quarter mile marker.Have th buffer stops and therefore the datum point changed over the years? I am sure that the original measurers would not have been several cricket pitches out on their measurements.

[John M Upton]

The first of new 387's are now being tested in pairs on the Brighton main line.

[roundhouse]

The first of new 387's are now being tested in pairs on the Brighton main line.

Is there a particular time that they run them or is it fairly random?

[John M Upton]

Not sure. A check on Realtimetrains.co.uk may help. I'll ask around as well as I would like a shufty at them as well.

[cromptonnut]

Tomorrow morning there are "Meet the Managers" at London Bridge and Blackfriars.

 

I fully intend to take advantage of the situation to explain my feelings on the changes.

 

We have a local "action group" if anyone is near Redhill, it may be of interest.  https://www.facebook.com/groups/RRDRUA/

[Claude_Dreyfus]

I never get the chance to meet the managers... Sadly my train always seems to be late that day and I need to get to the office...

[roundhouse]

I never get the chance to meet the managers... Sadly my train always seems to be late that day and I need to get to the office...

I have been avoiding London Bridge of late with morning meetings in Kensignton or travelling on Thameslink to Elephant and Castle. However the lift out of usre for refrubishemnt was due to be completed at the end of September. Still not completedit  and no sign of when it will be so quite often have to walk down the stairs. It still gets me into the office near London Bridge (getting off the Northern line at Borough) quicker than the direct London Bridge service a few minutes later off Redhill as its quite often delayed either arriving into Redhill and / or enroute to LBG then the queuing ot get off the platform although its vlsightly improved as they now normally hold boarding passengers back and have widened the platform access near the buffer stops.

 

Its noticaeble how many regular LBG commuters are now doing what I am doing!!

 

To add to the woes travelling, the Redhill roadworks seem to grow even though they should have been completed by now (been going on forover a year to remove the one way system) which also delays our bus journey to / from the station!!

 

Edit:

 

Once the 06.56 Thameslink via LBG is withdrawn in January I fear the 07.11 Thameslink via Elephant and Castle will be overcrowded and the 07.15 London Bridge is already 12 cars and like sardines on arrival into LBG; the 06.43 to LBG from Tonbridge is only 4 cars due to short platforms on that line and is often late so quiteoften is terminated at either East Croydon or Redhill therefore we avoid this one)

[roundhouse]

Tomorrow morning there are "Meet the Managers" at London Bridge and Blackfriars.

 

I fully intend to take advantage of the situation to explain my feelings on the changes.

 

We have a local "action group" if anyone is near Redhill, it may be of interest.  https://www.facebook.com/groups/RRDRUA/

I dont get replies form Southern anymore to my emails not that any of my emails are discourtious but do have constructive comments in them.

 

I must join the Redhill action group .

 

Been a lot in the local press recently.

[cromptonnut]

I dont get replies form Southern anymore to my emails not that any of my emails are discourtious but do have constructive comments in them.

 

I must join the Redhill action group .

 

Been a lot in the local press recently.

 

Been doing my bit to help, with their new website www.rrdrua.org.uk

[BR(S)]

The first of new 387's are now being tested in pairs on the Brighton main line.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfvtzdoAT7k&feature=youtu.be

 

13+13 again today but not on RTT for the next couple of days.  It's scheduled via Very Short Term Planning, so may only appear a short while before it runs:

 

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O44454/2014/11/05/advanced

[roundhouse]

This morning was a normal day at Redhill due to various trains normally being late. To start with, the departure at 06.43 to London Bridge was cancelled due to signal failure at Godstone. As mentioned in a previous post this is only 4 coaches and quite often cancelled or terminated short of LBG so we avoid it.

The 06.56 Thameslink is the next service to LBG and is an 8 car Thames link. The deliberately blurred photo for privacy of passenger shows the deep crowds of people waiting for it, slightly swelled due to the 06.43 cancellation but is typical of the number of people boarding at Redhill. This service is being withdrawn from January so all these people will now have to go on either the 06.43 the 07.11 Thames link) via Elephant & Castle) which is already much busier than it used to be but let's hope they increase this to 12 coaches (Already you have to queue to get down the steps at Elephant & Castle station). The 07.04 12 coach Vic service came in as 8 coach train today on platform 1 (also late as normal) so that was like a can of sardines. With this being late it also delayed the 07.11 and the following 07.15 12 car to LBG which we now avoid as it's already getting very crowded and at East Croydon often becomes very packed. This one will also have to take the extra passengers off the 06.56 and the 08.40 services that will no longer call at LBG from January.

Edit.. All those passengers in the photo got on the 06.56 and no doubt some of the passengers waiting for the late Vic service got on to East Croydon but most were waiting out of view for the Vic train with no announcement that it was going to be a short formation.

[Guest]

Just before I left the railway, my last few years as a driver were at Horsham. One of our diagrams included working the 07.52 Horsham - London Bridge, which was booked as a single 4VEP. I well remember that by the time we reached Redhill (admittedly, towards the end of the morning rush - approx. 08.20), any attempt to board would have been hopeless and often led to angry scenes. I see little has changed, sadly.

Completely off-topic, I wonder if anyone has ever modelled a suburban station 10-deep in model commuters? Not something I've ever seen.

 

Edit: if we left Horsham at 07.52, we must have been at Redhill around 08.30, as I think it was all stations including Faygate on the way up - still ridiculously busy at Redhill as the tail end of the morning rush met the beginnings of leisure travel.

[John M Upton]

That 07:52 off Horsham is one of my jobs. Up until September it was a four car and if the colleges (and their seemingly ever increasing number of further education students) were in it could be full and standing with me marooned in the back cab by Redhill.

 

It's now a brand spanking new five car but diverted to Victoria. Still sits for a long time at a East Croydon where it is timed just right for three quarters of the population of South London to cram themselves onto a train that us already pretty much rammed.

[bigP]

--

[Guest]

That 07:52 off Horsham is one of my jobs. Up until September it was a four car and if the colleges (and their seemingly ever increasing number of further education students) were in it could be full and standing with me marooned in the back cab by Redhill.

 

It's now a brand spanking new five car but diverted to Victoria. Still sits for a long time at a East Croydon where it is timed just right for three quarters of the population of South London to cram themselves onto a train that us already pretty much rammed.

 

I'm amazed it's still in the timetable, even though now diverted to Vic. Which depot, John? I don't even know if Horsham still has traincrew... Horsham and Three Bridges were never exactly large depots. Pete.

[Budgie]

Just came across this vid on you tube, apologies if I'm repeating a post (didn't see it earlier however)....

It's a shame you can't model anything like this, or even a part of it, because nobody will make models of the EMUs.

[John M Upton]

I'm amazed it's still in the timetable, even though now diverted to Vic. Which depot, John? I don't even know if Horsham still has traincrew... Horsham and Three Bridges were never exactly large depots. Pete.

 

Horsham driver with Barnham guard.  Has been like that for a good few years now.  Horsham Depot has drivers and guards, Three Bridges only has a small number of drivers, very nice friendly little depot to have a break in!  That will be changing however when the new Thameslink Depot opens there however.

[cornelius]

It's a shame you can't model anything like this, or even a part of it, because nobody will make models of the EMUs.

 

You could make them.

[bigP]

--

[cromptonnut]

Our meeting was great fun about the Redhill/Reigate cuts.  Senior management from Southern, Thameslink and Network Rail were present and over 150 people turned up to express their dissatisfaction.  Report in the local news here:  http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/angry-rail-users-quiz-southern-8177349

  

Local MP Crispin Blunt was presented with a 1,000+ signature petition and explained to the managers present that he was not satisfied with their response and challenged them to come up with a solution before he used his influence to force the Department of Transport and Office of Rail Regulation to come up with a solution for them.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzuo6I0zWAU

 

For me, one of the highlights of the meeting was during the open question session where one lady asked why she hadn't received replies to any of the four complaint letters she had sent in, and when the head of PR told her that it was quite unusual not to hear back seven others stood up and explained that they had also not received responses to complaints.  The other was the closing comment that after 2 hours of excuses, fluff and spin, not one of the 7 managers present had actually apologised once for the cuts and disruption.  The reaction from the top table in combined stunned silence was priceless.

 

Management did not come out of this at all well and provided no real answers, no concessions (apart from 4 coaches being added to an already full train to replace an 8 car train that's cancelled) and that they were not required to cover out of pocket 'cross London travel' expenses for displaced travellers to get back to where they wanted to be).

[roundhouse]

Our meeting was great fun about the Redhill/Reigate cuts.  Senior management from Southern, Thameslink and Network Rail were present and over 150 people turned up to express their dissatisfaction.  Report in the local news here:  http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/angry-rail-users-quiz-southern-8177349

  

Local MP Crispin Blunt was presented with a 1,000+ signature petition and explained to the managers present that he was not satisfied with their response and challenged them to come up with a solution before he used his influence to force the Department of Transport and Office of Rail Regulation to come up with a solution for them.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzuo6I0zWAU

 

For me, one of the highlights of the meeting was during the open question session where one lady asked why she hadn't received replies to any of the four complaint letters she had sent in, and when the head of PR told her that it was quite unusual not to hear back seven others stood up and explained that they had also not received responses to complaints.  The other was the closing comment that after 2 hours of excuses, fluff and spin, not one of the 7 managers present had actually apologised once for the cuts and disruption.  The reaction from the top table in combined stunned silence was priceless.

 

Management did not come out of this at all well and provided no real answers, no concessions (apart from 4 coaches being added to an already full train to replace an 8 car train that's cancelled) and that they were not required to cover out of pocket 'cross London travel' expenses for displaced travellers to get back to where they wanted to be).

Interesting, as I do not get replies to my emails to Southern except one regarding a refund on my Key card when I tried to use it for the first time and it didnt work, ever since been trying to get a refund and now doesnt look like I will get one so the Key card is going in the bin.

 

I wanted to go to the meeting but with so little time at home this week with Warley and another show plus seeing parent I couldnt go but it does look like I wouldnt have got in the room anyway due to over crowding which is quite ironic considering what the meeting was about!!

 

Hope to be at any future meetings though.