RichardS Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Apologies if there is another thread for this elsewhere; I could not find one. I have just seen the announcement of the Kernow Models Bachmann Scenecraft Clay Dries and Chimney. They look very nice but...... at £74 for the dries (is one enough?) and £44 for the chimney, "The're 'aving a larff bor!" (as we say in Norfolk.) I have retired to my bunker..... RichardS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JohnR Posted December 30, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 30, 2011 I'll be honest, the price doesnt concern me - it looks like a fantastic model, and if you want a china clay dry, you'll need to buy it. After all, how much time and money would it take to scratch build something like that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard37670 Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Got say look great think most people been waiting years for something like this stay be buying it for sure Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Big price for a fairly modest sized clay dries but it does look very good. Kernow have made a savy choice of something to go with their Well tanks and the assorted china clay wagons now available. I concur with JohnR that these should sell well, even at that price. If you look at the effort that modellers have put into the dries on layouts like "Wheal Elizabeth", the money starts to look a little less bad. For those with ambitous plans and deep pockets, I imagine it would be possible to abut 2 or more of these dries to make a larger facility. The only downside for me is that this is a Kernow commission and not a Bachmann regular release. That means the chances of it being scaled down to N gauge are much less. Still, I have just got rid of my china clay rolling stock as I do not have a layout to run them on so perhaps it is just as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardS Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 I'll be honest, the price doesnt concern me - it looks like a fantastic model, and if you want a china clay dry, you'll need to buy it. After all, how much time and money would it take to scratch build something like that? You are fortunate not to be concerned with price John. Scratch build? Cost would be very low less than £20 I guess. Time could be a problem, agreed but then so is £118 (or £192 if you need two dries.) RichardS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted December 30, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 30, 2011 I was aware this announcement was imminent and that the images would make it look very appealing. In terms of pricing the cost represents the time and effort involved in a small-run commission plus the finance tied up in such a project. I believe it to be a fair price for the workmanship involved. We didn't (on the whole) baulk at paying £92 for a "small engine" with the Beattie well-tanks despite the fact that other small engines are available at half the price. Why then should we question the cost of a superb matching structure which represents quite a large building in reality? Some of us possess the time and skill to scratch-build and as such may be able to create a similar item for a lesser price but at what cost in terms of personal time? Scratch-building is a significant and satisfying part of the hobby overall but that is not a valid reason to knock the production of a RtP item. Some of us scratch-buld rolling stock as well but most choose the RtR option and I am sure the same will be true of the Kernow dries. Now to think of a suitable name and how to re-jig a section of the layout to accommodate the item! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gulliver Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 You are fortunate not to be concerned with price John. Scratch build? Cost would be very low less than £20 I guess. Time could be a problem, agreed but then so is £118 (or £192 if you need two dries.) RichardS How about £160 for the Art Deco station from Bachmann, or £275 for the Sheffield Park station? They are at this years prices, the clay dries presumably takes account of the prices for next year. As Gwiwer says there is the time taken and also allowing for the anything I produce not being remotely as good as what this looks to be. I have ordered mine as well, it is about the same as a loco these days and I have far too many of them but still buy more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Time is a cost for many but for many the originality of modelling your own rather than RTP carries more weight. These are undoubtedly good and will sell just like all the other RTP out there, the price is just mildly limiting. As the main centerpiece of the layout it being of good quality will make it stand out. However, once this becomes a relatively common item it will become too recognisable on the exhibition circuit. We await conversions or cheaper imitations Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardS Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 I would think there is considerably more work in designing and manufacturing a new loco and chassis such as the Beattie than creating what is essentially a cubiform stone building which is then cast in resin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted December 31, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2011 Yes they look nice and for those starved of time with a bit of money an excellent way to make a realistic layout quickly. http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/category/1106/Ready_Made_Buildings With rtp at shows then if there aren't used in an original way then they probably won't get many invites Just anotherway to get into the hobby and they'd certainly make a nice diorama. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R A Watson Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Having read this thread extolling the virtues of this product I then followed the link to view the advertising pictures, to my eye there is a major fault in that at the back of the loading deck there is a continuous wall seperating the drying pans from the loading bay. In the real world there is , at least, entrances in this wall to allow the dried clay to be shovelled from the pans to the dock, or, more normally no wall here at all and smaller doorways on the track side of the loading bay. I offer this comment subject to not having seen the product in the flesh and stand ready to be corrected by those who have had that pleasure. Once again reference to this previous thread may help http://www.rmweb.co....__fromsearch__1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 7013 Posted December 31, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 31, 2011 Built my own for about £15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 7013 Posted December 31, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 31, 2011 Unfortunately upload not working at present so will post when I can, looking at the Kernow dries I am not impressed, they are poor representations of a dry, look more like a goods shed, I would put mine against the Scenecraft one any day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JohnR Posted December 31, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2011 I'm not saying its cheap, or that I have lots of money to spend! However, Its something that I couldnt reproduce, and as such, the money is not the stumbling block. I can see Kernow getting a substantial chunk of my modelling budget what with this, the O2 and the Gate stock too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 7013 Posted January 2, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 2, 2012 Not only would i say the dry and chimney are expensive, I would say the prices are scandalous for what in essence is a casting using couple of quids worth of resin, yes I know they had to be modelled in the first place but I still think it is very expensive, but I expect they will sell to those with more money than sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 they will sell to those with more money than sense. That's very harsh - more like more money than time or skill to spare to model anything better. I'll not be buying one, but that doesn't mark down the many that will as I can see their practical and aesthetic appeal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 That's very harsh - more like more money than time or skill to spare to model anything better. Well said, there are plenty of modellers out there who build moving masterpieces when it comes to rolling stock but find scenic work harder. I don't think that people who buy RTP scenery should be criticised any more than people who buy RTR locos and coaches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted January 3, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 3, 2012 We may all choose to buy or not buy this or any other item. It isn't cheap in the sense that a £20 plastic kit costs less but it contains much more detail than many sheet plastic structures, will be far more robust and should be of very high quality design and workmanship. I don't consider the Hornby "Brighton Belle" cheap for what it is either but it should still present a far better model than I could build for that or any other price. By all means allow those (relatively few) modellers who wish to to go ahead with their own projects. No-one is arm-twisting them to buy anything. But as a distinctive structure found in a very popular modelling theme the dries should give a substantial lift to many a project and also sit well commercially with Kernow's other china-clay themed commissions. Personally I expect to add a little detail to mine once the units arrive which would take it beyond a RtP structure to a level above "out of the box". There is nothing to say we must leave something pristine and certainly not clay dries which could be filthy places particularly in wet conditions. I look forward with interest to a number of other "individualisations" of these items as they arrive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 7013 Posted January 3, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 3, 2012 I apologise for my comment 'More money than sense' there was no intention to cause offence, my point which I should have made clearer is that yes will allow many more modellers who cannot build a dry to tap into Cornish Clay. However that does not detract from the fact that this is a very expensive product compared with similar sized and detailed buildings, for instance brewery and coal mine buildings which can be obtained for £20-30 cheaper. But saying all that i am not saying people should not buy the dry, I am all for supporting Kernow MRC, I have used the shop for years and applaud their efforts to bring Cornwall to the masses. There is scope for further clay related buildings as well such as pumping houses, mills and settling tanks etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted January 3, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 3, 2012 brewery and coal mine buildings which can be obtained for £20-30 cheaper. Without knowing which specific items you have in mind may I venture to suggest that these are mainstream releases for which the R&D costs can be shared across a far higher number of units than a limited run commission? As well a large manufacturer may be in a stronger position to financially underpin something which does turn out to be a slow seller than a retailer risking a significant amount of precious profit margin on the investment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 7013 Posted January 3, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 3, 2012 I agree to a certain extent Gwiwer but we are not talking R&D of a complex loco or carriage, having lived in the heart of China Clay country for a number of years and photographed many dries both new and old one thing you quickly notice is the variations in the basic design, so there was no need really to model a specific dry. I am not taking a swipe at Kernow for their dry, as I said it is to be applauded. Incidently if anyone wishes to see the history of china clay working in one simple and pleasant walk, take the road from Nanpean to St.Stephen, about a mile out of Napean past the Drinnick warfe is a layby on the left. Park up and take a walk down the valley path, there is a dry, settling tank, pipework, linhay,and water mills, there are seven water wheels in all three of which still have old and rusting wheels. If ever there was a place that would make a beautiful working museum it is that valley. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I think as so often with models if the initiating company have got their maths wrong it simply will not sell, they will be left with a pile of unsold boxes which will then reappear as "specials" "sale" or "bargain basement" items. On the other hand if they have got it right they will sell like hot cakes and they will soon appear as **RARE** items on ebay at inflated prices, with KMRC possibly running another batch. That's what business and markets are all about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSLR Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I just build my own because it looks better, cheaper and is to scale Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardS Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 An interesting range of views. I wonder at what price Kernow could have pitched these products to maximise their profits? That is to say at what price would those who are stating an intention to buy choose not to buy them believing them to be too expensive. £200? A week's pay? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 7013 Posted January 6, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 6, 2012 Quite, a four bay dry and chimney around £200, My four bay dry and chimney about £15 and mine looks like a dry not a loading bay! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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