Internet orders

[ia909]

Hi all,

 

I wonder what members' experiences are of ordering stuff via the internet?

 

What's prompted my query is the following. On Tuesday morning I placed an order from a very well known retailer in the south to be called a few hours later and told that three of the four items I'd ordered weren't actually in stock, despite their website specifically stating that they were. Although in one instance they had a similar item in, (same loco different running number), they were not willing to reduce the price of that in-stock item.

 

Tuesday afternoon, I placed an order for the loco with a retailer in the south-west. A "sorry out of stock" email appeared three hours later. Again, the website showed (and even now still shows) the item as being in stock and available.

 

Wednesday, ordered some rolling stock from one of the country's largest retailers, received an email acknowledging my order (for which I had agree to pay extra for priority shipping), only to receive an email Friday afternoon saying, (yes, you've guessed it), out of stock and would I like it placing on back order. I've declined the offer and will order directly from Japan.

 

Have I just been unlucky or is this typical of the British hobby outlet nowadays? At a time when cash for hobbies is in short supply surely updating their websites can't be too difficult? I have had exceptional internet order service from Bromsgrove Models but I'm left wondering if it is an island of excellence in a sea of general indifference.

 

Ian

[gwrrob]

It might be that stocks are low after Christmas orders and they have'nt restocked yet.I know it can be frustrating at times.Don't you have a local retailer ?

[Guest Natalie Graham]

It isn't that hard to keep your theoretical stock availability up to date on the website if you have real-time computerised stock control. What is not always so easy is keeping the actual stock the same as what the computer says you have. That loco that somebody shoplifted a few weeks ago doesn't appear on the computer and only comes to light when someone orders the last item and it isn't there. The same with the one a member of staff swapped for a faulty one in the shop and didn't put through the computer system, or the LNER liveried open wagon which got mistakenly put through as an LMS one. When you order the last one and somebody has just bought it in the shop or just ordered it online then that isn't there either. I have experienced this with non-railway retailers recently too so it isn't just the hobby related shops. I would imagine you will see it more during the current financial situation where retailers will very possibly be trying to reduce the amount of stock they are carrying so are more likely to be getting down to that last missing item that still shows as in stock on the computer.

[simon hudson]

Whats a local retailer?? I think the t'internet has got rid of quite a few.Ive had to order paint today none of the model?toy shops have it here in North Wales

[ia909]

Robin, Not one that sells Japanese N scale!

 

I know it's a specialised area and I appreciate that after Christmas stocks of model railways generally might be low, but I still don't think stores should advertise that they have goods in stock when they don't.

 

I understand Natalie's point but frankly if a store (any store), can't be sure of what its got in stock, then it shouldn't try to be an internet retailer. One of the retailers I mention above doesn't even have a shop. He's internet only.

 

In an ideal world I would always love to see, touch and test a model before I buy but that's not possible today. If John at Bromsgrove Models and Stuart at Model Junction can keep their websites bang up to date, (and I have no association with either other than as a satisfied client), then others should too.

 

Ian

[Edwin_m]

This seems to be a perennial problem with ordering on the internet. If the website stock levels can't be trusted and you have to phone to check availabilty, then what is the point of having a website?

 

I agree that the occasional unexpected out-of-stock will happen in the best run websites, for the reasons suggested by Natalie but also because a couple of people might walk in from the street and buy the last two of a particular item. The better shops will phone you promptly, apologise and offer an alternative or to cancel that item from the order. Two that do this in my experience, and generally have excellent feedback on RMWeb and elsewhere, are Bromsgrove Models and Hattons (no connection other than being a satisfied customer of both).

 

There are quite a few others, some named and shamed on here over the years, who appear to make no effort at all to keep their website stock levels up to date and fail to manage the situation on the (no doubt frequent) occasions somebody orders something they don't have. So searching on RMWeb is probably a pretty good starting point before placing an order.

[gwrrob]

I feel your frustration here too.I've been here myself with a well known chain showing item in stock but when I try to puchase it I've been told its been put to one side for another customer.

 

This seems to be a perennial problem with ordering on the internet. If the website stock levels can't be trusted and you have to phone to check availabilty, then what is the point of having a website

 

Absolutely.

[Mike Bellamy]

I help a friend with a trade stand at exhibitions. After Thursday evening he has to stop trading as Friday is spent loading the van and travelling to the show. Saturday and Sunday spent trading there and then return home Monday and dump stock at home to return van in time. Tuesday start to sort out stock and check for orders - that's when he finds that items that were in stock have been sold.

 

So what is he supposed to do - switch off the web site for 4 days each week, or stop going to shows - the business isn't viable without both and so he has to take a chance that any internet orders can be covered by remaining stock. To try and make things easier he is now spending rather a lot on a bar code system so that everything has a label and is scanned when sold at a show so that when he gets back to base he can run that through the stock control system - but it all takes time and costs money - which will ultimately lead to increased prices.

[HLT 0109]

I agree it is frustrating but, with the occasional exception, I have found internet traders very keen to please. Even when the item I want is out of stock, I have found traders prepared to honour the quoted price despite not knowing when they will be able to supply it. As long as there is a geographical telephone number I am quite happy to give a call to check availability and then I can decide whether to go elsewhere.

 

I have some sympathy with Mike Bellamy's comments. There are some really good, large retailers but a lot of smaller ones giving them necessary competition and good service. The alternative to expensive technology is expensive manpower - difficult to get it right.

 

Harold.

[Dave777]

Have I just been unlucky

 

From my own experience, yes.

[Prodigy]

eHattons is good , they got memy christmas present

[Gwiwer]

From my quite substantial experience of internet ordering (to Australia from the UK and Canada and occasionally other countries) I would suggest OP has been unlucky. Some of the best retailers operate real-time cybertills but not all. The costs of doing so may mean that smaller businesses find that not viable. Either way there will always be a slight delay between the last model being taken off the shelf and having it updated from "In stock" to "Out of stock". Even a real-time system cannot factor in the customer taking something off a shelf, browsing for perhaps some time after and then paying. The item only comes off stock at payment. Stock variance has been discussed above as well.

 

I have only once had a reply following an order for something "In stock" to say it wasn't. In fairness the stock level when I ordered was 1 and that might have been sold over the counter or maybe I had become a victim of missing or miscounted stock. Either way I had it sent at the advertised discounted price a few months later when it was back in stock.

[Andy Y]

eHattons is good , they got memy christmas present

 

They're nice people but I think you may find it was either a loved one or Santa.

[250BOB]

Yes, a couple of close friends of mine have had similar experiences to the OP in the last few weeks, and that was from a big dealer in the SE. Personally, I just smile smugly at them when this happens.....because I try not to buy significant items, i.e. locos and stock etc through the internet wherever possible.

I support my local model shop....and ask them if they can source the item for me first. I ultimately pay a few quid more, but not always, but spend a most enjoyable couple of hours chatting in the shop on my monthly visit.

 

Your model shop......use it, or lose it. I do appreciate that this is not possible for some people.....your choice of course.

 

Bob

[Butler Henderson]

I only trust a few specific websites to be accurate re stock levels - and if its a rare or sale item I usually send an email first or phone them to make certain the item(s) are in stock. This is not just related to model railways, most websites seem to inaccurate as to whether the items are in stock or not (probably one the areas that ebay wins one) - have just ordered a set of kitchen under cabinet lights which to all intents appears to be in stock but have now been told they expect stocks by Feb 7. Of course in the old pre-internet days there seemed to be a standard 28 days delivery timescale on most mail order items.

[Gwiwer]

Your model shop......use it, or lose it.

I whole-heartedly endorse that sentiment but

I do appreciate that this is not possible for some people

Indeed - as my post above should make clear in my case and

your choice of course.

In my case again the nearest shop is over an hour's drive (not that bad on a Global scale but still $10 in fuel and $8 in road tolls) and for UK items the local shops charge something like three times the price I can obtain the same item for from the UK.

 

When possible I do support the local shops and if we are to retain their expertise and services I urge others to do likewise.

[2ManySpams]

I've never had any issues ordering UK outline stock and other modelling bits from UK sites or model shops such as Hattons and Kernow. I suspect that part of the OP's problem may be due to ordering Japanese outline stock in the UK. I would imagine that stock levels held of these items will be far lower than equivalent UK outline produced by Bachmann or Dapol.

[Kenton]

Stock control systems are expensive to implement and more importantly expensive to maintain.

 

I don't think there is any recall legally or morally on a website that states that there is stock when in fact there is no stock as long as no money has changed hands even then there is no obligation except a refund. Some suppliers may go that extra distance to remedy the unfortunate situation but in this day and age most know that the internet shopper has little loyalty and will probably shop around anyway.

 

At least being informed that they were out of stock is one important step - some small businesses have such poor stock management that they might have just ignored it.

 

Of course it can happen in the high street shop just the same - you make a special journey to your model shop miles away and when you get there and ask at the counter they are out of stock. Many might simply say "come back next week" others might take payment then promise to post it when it comes in stock others might just offer to call you and you'll need to make a return journey.

[mcowgill]

Robin, Not one that sells Japanese N scale!

 

I know it's a specialised area and I appreciate that after Christmas stocks of model railways generally might be low, but I still don't think stores should advertise that they have goods in stock when they don't.

 

 

I can guess who your third 'large' retailer is, there aren't many who (allegedly) stock Japanese N gauge. If it's who I think it is they have never fulfilled a complete order from me when their web site said it was in stock, there's always something that goes on back order. I won't deal with them any more, but for every one of these there are many more who bend over backwards to give excellent service, I suspect that your particular interests mean you have a far more restricted choice than those of us who take the easy choice of British outline.

 

I won't name any names as I might be barking up the wrong tree with my assumptions.

 

Martin

[Physicsman]

The only problems I ever had were way back in 2003-4 with the infamous Totally Trains. A useless website and hopelessly mixed messages from the staff in the shop.

 

In the last 5 years I've used Kernow as my main supplier. Orders usually sent via the internet, and any problem has always resulted in a phone call from one of their team within the hour. Out of, maybe, 100 orders, maybe one slight delay. Their fantastic internet service has earned them my loyalty.

 

Other retailers, such as Hattons and Harburn have been just as up front.

 

So I think you have been very unlucky.

 

Jeff

[Fenway Park]

I see the OP was related to Internet purchases. Later on it became clear the purchases were in relation to Japanese N gauge items.

If the purchases were not Kato Unitrak, then the number of potential shops for Japanese N gauge would be very limited.

The current wholesaler has very limited stocks and is just catching up with the Japanese production system.

 

In addition the outlets for Japanese N gauge mostly rely on the wholesaler for their stock. The wholesaler's stock lists are very poor.

 

The other outlet in the South West for most Japanese N gauge items is not a major box shifter and possibly not the outlet contacted by the OP.

 

Japanese products apart from Unitrak are issued on a very limited basis. I think the Kato wholesaler is only just coming to terms with the pecularities of the Japanese production system.

 

In Europe there are few choices from where you can buy Kato items. Tomix and Micro Ace as well as Kato can be purchased from Wellington Models.

[Philip Jackson]

I help a friend with a trade stand at exhibitions. After Thursday evening he has to stop trading as Friday is spent loading the van and travelling to the show. Saturday and Sunday spent trading there and then return home Monday and dump stock at home to return van in time. Tuesday start to sort out stock and check for orders - that's when he finds that items that were in stock have been sold.

 

So what is he supposed to do - switch off the web site for 4 days each week, or stop going to shows - the business isn't viable without both and so he has to take a chance that any internet orders can be covered by remaining stock. To try and make things easier he is now spending rather a lot on a bar code system so that everything has a label and is scanned when sold at a show so that when he gets back to base he can run that through the stock control system - but it all takes time and costs money - which will ultimately lead to increased prices.

 

just a thought and i appreciate this would take a little more time but couldn't you friend remove from stock on the website those items he's taking to the shows and put those left back in after wards?

[Bernard Lamb]

I know I am thick but I would have thought that the best place to buy Japanese trains was Japan.

My only experience of internet orders from Japan has been with music CDs and that works fine.

Even if you can't read Japanese you have a picture and a price.

Bernard

[Oldddudders]

I know I am thick but I would have thought that the best place to buy Japanese trains was Japan.

My only experience of internet orders from Japan has been with music CDs and that works fine.

Even if you can't read Japanese you have a picture and a price.

Quite true - and I've certainly bought tons of US stuff this way. But we'd never be aware of other model ranges from overseas if it weren't for the enterprising importer who risks his shirt on bringing them in, so I have to admire the OP's determination to support these people. They may not exactly be your LHS (Local Hobby Shop), but they are a darn sight closer than Japan, will talk your language, and Japanese enthusiasts have reason to want them to prosper. Furthermore, big ticket items from Japan will invariably get caught for import tax etc, so many weeks can intervene between order and receipt, and the final £ cost can be a bit of a shock. Exotic goods, sold by one-man-band traders, at this time of year, in short supply - a poor mix, I'm afraid.

[250BOB]

just a thought and i appreciate this would take a little more time but couldn't you friend remove from stock on the website those items he's taking to the shows and put those left back in after wards?

Can you imagine the volume of stuff he would take to a show, removing all that from a website would take ages....then he has to put most of it back again, I would imagine.