mikemeg Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 A year or two ago, I built the body for an LNER A6 - Whitby tank - using some parts from the Little Engines kit and quite a lot of scratch building. The intention was (and now is) to scratch build the chassis in order to complete this model. Another much earlier thread described the techniques in building the body, much of which is actually plasticard. As Arthur K is now well on with the development of his own NER Class W kit (the original 4-6-0 version of this locomotive) and with the 4-6-2 NER/LNER rebuilt version of this locomotive, now seems a propitious time to complete this model, especially as Arthur has very kindly supplied some of his test etch components for this model. So let's start the thread with some of those lovely old black and white photos of this class and the particular loco which forms the basis of the model. This example - 69796 - outlasted the rest of the class and was not withdrawn until 1953. Unusually, this locomotive (and one or two other class members) were painted in BR fully lined mixed traffic livery, despite the shortness of their BR lives. These were very large tank locos, being somewhat longer, though significantly less powerful, than the shorter but very much more powerful 3-cylinder T1 4-8-0's. The family resemblance to the LNER A7's, A8's and T1's is very apparent from the photographs. The final photographs are the completed body awaiting its chassis and final painting. The footplate, behind the smokebox, is actually open (appears solid in the photo) to show the 'gubbins' between the mainframes. The second of the two model photographs also shows the bunker full of 'alternative fuel' - large round lumps of lead. The body does weigh around 14 ozs, so adhesion shouldn't be a problem, though it will have a Mashima 1626, with a flywheel, to drive it. Might be the only A6 with a 7P power rating; the prototypes managed to achieve 4P! Perhaps this thread may whet a few appetites for Arthur's own upcoming kit of these very handsome and classically North Eastern prototypes. Edwardian locomotive design at its clean and uncluttered very best! So here we go again. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ArthurK Posted January 20, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 20, 2012 There are a couple of excellent shots of 69796 albeit is various stages of being dismantled in the recent publication 'Darlington Scrapyard'. I find publications such as these an great source of detail not normally visible in photos of the locomotives at work. Crash photos are also useful especially when the loco is on its side or upside down! ArthurK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trunker3 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Colour Rail have a slide (or had, I don't have a current catologue) of 69796 at Starbeck in quite clean lined black livery. Very nice it looks too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 So I'd got to here, on the scratchbuilt chassis, when Arthur's J73 kit, plus some 'spares' from his A6 chassis test etch, popped through the letterbox. This chassis is a composite, in that it uses both nickel silver and plasticard in its construction. I first used this approach of wrapping the n/silver frames with cosmetic but properly profiled frames on the T1, which is still going strong after four years. The mainframes from the original little engines kit were not very accurate in profile (I could use much more explicit language about these but hey, these kits were produced many years ago and things have moved on) but they were accurate in their wheel spacings and drillings. So the nickel silver mainframes were assembled into a box and then 'wrapped' with new plasticicard mainframes which match the prototype profile. The chassis is then strengthened with various boxes, made from .040" plasticard and glued in with superglue. Believe it or not, this chassis is quite rigid and should not distort under operating conditions. Certainly the T1's chassis, which is built in this way, has not distorted or twisted at all, though using either Araldite or Superglue and avoiding liquid poly, in the main construction probably helps. So having got this far, only to find that the parcel from Arthur contained absolutely everything needed to produce an A6 chassis, I decided to use only certain components, with a view to building another A6 at some later date and using the remaining parts from Arthur's etches. The spring hangars and leaf springs are therefore scratch built from .020" plasticard (spring hangars) and .010" plasticard (leaf springs). I really just wanted to see if I could do it! Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 ....This chassis is a composite, in that it uses both nickel silver and plasticard in its construction......Believe it or not, this chassis is quite rigid and should not distort under operating conditions..... Do you find that the plasticard layers also reduce the possibility of a short circuit? So having got this far, only to find that the parcel from Arthur contained absolutely everything needed to produce an A6 chassis..... Isn't that always the way? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7mm Mick Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Lovely work as usual Mike. I'll be keeping a close eye on this thread also. As you know I share your love of these North eastern bruts and plan to eventually have a go at an A6 at some point. But first it'll have to be an A7 as these are my favouate. I think Botanic had an A6 for some time before it was withdrawn? There's a great picture in one of Mich Nicholoson and Mr Yeadon's books on Hull. I'm going to dig out the picture to satisfy my curiosity. ATB Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 Do you find that the plasticard layers also reduce the possibility of a short circuit? Yes, very definitely. The fact that there is no circuit across the two mainframes, as the frame stretchers are effectively isolators, does reduce any chance of short circuits. The only conductors, crossing the mainframes, are the wheel axles. Even if the brakes touch the wheel rims, there is no short circuit provided that the brake hangar spindles are not passed across both mainframes. Isn't that always the way? Yup! Still now I have a valid excuse to build anotrher A6, but one which retained much more of its North Eastern appearance, right up until withdrawal. For a class of only ten examples, there were a surprising number of differences between class members. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 Lovely work as usual Mike. I'll be keeping a close eye on this thread also. As you know I share your love of these North eastern bruts and plan to eventually have a go at an A6 at some point. But first it'll have to be an A7 as these are my favouate. I think Botanic had an A6 for some time before it was withdrawn? There's a great picture in one of Mich Nicholoson and Mr Yeadon's books on Hull. I'm going to dig out the picture to satisfy my curiosity. ATB Mick The two photos in the first posting on the thread, were both taken in Hull. 69796 was allocated to Botanic Gardens in 1950, along with 69798. The first photo is outside Dairycoates shed - the trawler slipway is clearly visible at the end of St Andrews Dock; the second photo is Hull Paragon Station in 1952. I believe that 69796 stayed at Botanic Gardens up till its withdrawal, in 1953, though when it arrived in Hull I don't know. The stock list for mid 1950 gives the other four remaining A6's - 69791, 69793, 69794 and 69797 - as being allocated to Starbeck (50D). Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 I'm not going to do a 'blow by blow' on building this chassis but as I set out to scratch build all of the springing equipment on this, then someone might be interested as to how it went. These A6's had compensation beams, initially between all coupled wheels; latterly between the middle and rear sets of driving wheels. So these were marked out and cut from .020" plasticard. I also finished making the six leaf springs; each one consisting of five leaves of 1.25 mm x .010" plasticard the leaves being 13mm, 11 mm, 9 mm, 7 mm and 5 mm, with the spring plate retainer glued over the centre. Each leaf spring was then drilled .4 mm at the extremity of the longest leaf so that a piece of .4 mm plastic rod could be inserted into the hole and then juggled for final position. This operation did need some care and did need those holes drilling very accurately but I managed to do them all without any breakage. Perhaps the new specs are working? So now for the brake hangar brackets and then I can start doing the wheels and motion. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ArthurK Posted January 24, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 24, 2012 The main changes to the A6s was the boiler design. The original was replaced by the newer designs of Dia 63A, B or C. Some of these were superheated and the supheated variety appeared on the A6. Fortunately the barrel length of the boilers was very nearly the same for all, but when a superheated smokebox was fitted, which was longer, the boiler itself was pushed further back into the cab. This means (fortunately) the one boiler etch can be adapted for all includining the origimal as the dianmreter was the same. What I must do is to clearly show which holes are to be drilled for each type but that is a small penalty to pay. Other differences are the appearance of a 'T' strap connecting the tanks from the 1940s. The blower valve was high on the smokebox so that the operating rod could be above the tank top although the valve and rod were internal on later noilers. On the right was a operating rod for the Westinghouse pump. again high on the smokebox with a linkage doown to the pump itself. Again this disappead and was replaced by a stteam pipe fron a valve in the cab. One further pont of note is the front bogie. Originally this was the 'standard' NER design with compensation beams carrying the springs, Later the NER fitted brakes to the bogie wheels. The were operated via a steam cylinder betweemn the wheels. The compensation beams had to go and coil springs used instead. The brakes were removed but they kept the coil springs. Two further differences the equalising pipe connecting the tanks was removed and the holes blanked, The loco springs were compensatied on all theree axles but was removed from the first two. There were also differences in the sand boxes, originally uder the footplate but were moved above, initially 'L' shaped. Some were enlarged to include Down;s sand dryers. ArtnurK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 Just to illustrate how different these locos could look, here's a photo of 69791, again taken in Botanic Gardens shed (the loco is sporting a 53A shedplate) and again with the loco painted in BR lined mixed traffic livery. This loco was withdrawn in August 1951 so I assume that it came to Hull some time after mid 1950 as the mid 1950 stock list gives it allocated to Starbeck. Some of the differences referenced in Arthur's post above, are clearly visible on this loco and doesn't this loco just exude its North Eastern ancestry? Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ArthurK Posted January 24, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 24, 2012 Yeadon says it was fitted with a 63C boiler in 1843 then with a 63B in 1950. I think that this is the 63B. it had been at Starbeck and was allocated to Botanic in Feb 1951. It surptising that it was given a boiler change as it only lasted until August of 1951. ArthurK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 One of the really tricky things with these old tank locomotives is to establish just how they were lined out, especially with the BR lined black livery. Just how was the lining arranged around the cab cutout and what sort of radii were the curves. Very rarely one comes across a photo taken side on; a photo which actually shows just where the lining was. And just look at the period detail in this photo, which has to be 1953 at the very latest (this loco was withdrawn in 1953) and is probably slightly earlier. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold John B Posted January 24, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 24, 2012 I remember shopping at Dugglebys on Spring Bank as a kid in the 70s... I just love those big NER tanks. Thanks for the inspiration, Mike (and Arthur). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I remember shopping at Dugglebys on Spring Bank as a kid in the 70s... I just love those big NER tanks. Thanks for the inspiration, Mike (and Arthur). I worked for Mr Duggleby at Princes Ave Jan 1966 to Feb 1969. It was there that I first meet a very youthfull Mr Megginson. Mick Nicholson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 I worked for Mr Duggleby at Princes Ave Jan 1966 to Feb 1969. It was there that I first meet a very youthfull Mr Megginson. Mick Nicholson. Yes and I can still remember my first excursion into that 'Aladdin's Cave' which was Dugglebys and meeting a similarly youthful Mick Nicholson and a somewhat less youthful, though still young, Ken (?). Wasn't that actual corner always known as Dugglebys corner? I never intended this thread, or any of my threads, to become 'All Our Yesterdays' but I guess that's the penalty, if penalty it be, of having seen and lived those times; the times in the black and white photographs. What is really gratifying is just how many folk, who were not born when many of these old photos were taken, are still inspired by seeing them. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ArthurK Posted January 25, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2012 My cousin and I used to cycle across thacrossing by Duggleby's many times on our way to Botanic Gardens where we used to sit atop of the wall by rhe turntable. We spent many hours there watching trains in and out of Paragon as well as the shed activity. Sometimes we were brave and placed a penny on the track to have it flattened by a D49 or whatever! All was peaceful until one day a prailway ganger who had been greasing points and fishplates suddenly took a dislike to us sitting there and came at us threatening drastic action with his gease brush. We didn't stay long! That was the late 40s. ArthurK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I was about 19 at the time of the attached photo. The young lady was a couple of years older than me, so I reckon she will now have had five years out of her pension book. Best Wishes, Mick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Worsdell forever Posted January 25, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2012 Mick, you haven't changed a bit... Love the A6 Mike B) , my favourite class, well it should be, me being a Whitby lad... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Mick, you haven't changed a bit... Love the A6 Mike B) , my favourite class, well it should be, me being a Whitby lad... Unlike me, I bet the "Young Lady" is now a bit wrinkled in places. She disapered off the face of the earth well over forty years ago. Best Wishes, Mick. v Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 Unlike me, I bet the "Young Lady" is now a bit wrinkled in places. She disapered off the face of the earth well over forty years ago. Best Wishes, Mick. v Ah but was she ever one of your fabled 'coterie' of wild women. Answers on a postcard, Mick, too many revelations, on here, might distract the reader(s) into misreading the intent of the site. Perhaps we've both 'weathered' reasonably well. I'm still playing badminton twice or three times a week, and against players up to forty years my junior and, once or twice (and sometimes consistently) actually beating them. So here's to the next half century! Is there an updated version of 'When I'm sixty four', which song was rendered for my benefit last month, to cater for 114? Cheers and best regards Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 ....I'm still playing badminton twice or three times a week, and against players up to forty years my junior and, once or twice (and sometimes consistently) actually beating them.... Do you play to County standard? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 Do you play to County standard? I honestly don't know, though I do play against players that are. I re-started playing this game at the beginning of 2010, having not played since my school and University days. It has been an enormous surprise to me that I can still play this game and even though I am approaching my o.a.p years, I seem to stay clear of any aches, pains or injuries and can still 'fling meself around the court', albeit not for the full two hours of the sessions. So I shall keep playing until the old body tells me to stop, for I'll be a long time dead once I stop. Cheers and regards Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tranby Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 We are now into a Dugglebys reunion thread !- Remember the shop,you and Ken Marsden well,and the Alex Dock J72s tearing over Botanic Crossing heading towards Dairycoates lunchtime Saturdays.Crossing threads a little-more of Asselby has survived than your box- the station building is in my loft. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 We are now into a Dugglebys reunion thread !- Remember the shop,you and Ken Marsden well,and the Alex Dock J72s tearing over Botanic Crossing heading towards Dairycoates lunchtime Saturdays.Crossing threads a little-more of Asselby has survived than your box- the station building is in my loft. Yes but isn't this one of the wonderful things about this site, that these threads can diverge and wander and all in real time. Ken Marsden, that was his name! Anyway, time to get back to this A6. Then a J73 (another of Arthur's wonderful kits); then another A6 perhaps, then, then ....... Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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