LOCOS REVERSING COACHES INTO PLATFORMS

[The Stationmaster]

I assume in the days of steam when there were bay platforms for branch line trains, with no run round facilities, that either the train arrived at the bay and then had tp propell it out, run round it and propell it back, or else arrive at a main platform and perform a similar manouver to start from the bay again?

 

Exactly so. And all sorts of different ways of doing it of course.

[£1.38]

Slightly off-topic, but old videos of American termini show very long rakes of coaches being propelled into stations from distant carriage sidings and reversing on triangles - often at quite a pace too.

[ChrisN]

Exactly so. And all sorts of different ways of doing it of course.

 

Thank you. That's what I thought, but the more you think about it the more you doubt yourself, or I do.

[cary hill]

I assume in the days of steam when there were bay platforms for branch line trains, with no run round facilities, that either the train arrived at the bay and then had tp propell it out, run round it and propell it back, or else arrive at a main platform and perform a similar manouver to start from the bay again?

 

Not just in steam days - in "Branch Lines around Bodmin - Middleton Press" there is a Bodmin Road photograph dated 24th October 1963 described as follows - "after arrival, the locomotive (D63XX Class) propelled it's coaches (back) onto the branch, where they were braked and uncoupled. The diesel then ran into a siding and the train was run under gravity into the platform, allowing the engine to rejoin it. I assume this was a continuation of steam day practices and would only involve 2 branch coaches.

 

Indeed, all sorts of different ways of doing it.

[SwissRailPassion]

Nice to see the Scarborough video. Down the line at Bridlington excursions used to be propelled from Platforms 7 and 8 to the sidings and back again.

 

I was at Geneva a month ago when a train for Zurich drew in and moments later a shunter propelled three carriages onto the front of the loco, the last of the three carriages was a driving cab. Moments later we were ready for off with three cars leading a loco and ten doubledeckers. All done in about 5 mins.

[Gwiwer]

Exactly so. And all sorts of different ways of doing it of course.

We shall not mention the word "Cowes" in this context.

 

Oh whoops - I just did

 

For those who were there or those who know Cowes was renowned for the (strictly forbidden) practice of gravity-shunting the passenger coaches towards the buffers down the hill with the guard or shunter in charge of preventing disaster while the loco ran round.

[£1.38]

We shall not mention the word "Cowes" in this context.

 

Oh whoops - I just did

 

For those who were there or those who know Cowes was renowned for the (strictly forbidden) practice of gravity-shunting the passenger coaches towards the buffers down the hill with the guard or shunter in charge of preventing disaster while the loco ran round.

 

Why do you say strictly forbidden? It seems to have been a common practice elsewhere as well.

[Gwiwer]

Gravity shunting - as in the train rolling back without a locomotive attached - was as I understand it contrary to the rules unless specifically authorised for the location. As with fly-shunting in goods yards the fact that it was often done didn't make it right. However I'm always prepared to stand corrected if required.

[£1.38]

I don't know if it was authorised or not, but places like Cowes would be very difficult to operate any other way. One of the GNoSR termini was operated the same way, as was Eyemouth. Eyemouth had no run round loop, so i would have thought gravity shunting was an essential part of the railway operation there at least - impossible to disapprove of.

[Jim49]

Gravity shunting was also practiced at Killin Station. The train engine propelled the coaching stock

(usually just a single Thomson non-corridor) uphill out of the platform in the direction of Killin

Junction where the guard screwed his brake on tight. The engine then uncoupled and ran back to

the station where it hid in one of the sidings until the guard brought the train back down through

the station and past the goods sidings. The loco then came out, coupled up and drew back into the

station ready for the next trip.

 

Jim

 

Edit - I think the GNoSR station £1.38 referred to is Banff. The same general layout as Killin, with

no run-round loop but a handy hill just outside the station.

[£1.38]

Yes, I was thinking of Banff - just couldn't remember the name.

 

Apologies to Gwiwer if he thinks I am being critical of his comment, but many a myth has crept into railway practice by off-the-cuff remarks or opinions being taken by others to be authoritative statements of fact. I once had an enthusiast of a well known green-liveried loco organisation assure me that he had been told by an expert that their locos never slipped. He was completely convinced that this must therefore be true. Quite apart from the fact that videos show slipping did exist, why on earth did they bother fitting sanding gear?

 

Back on topic, East Kent Railway passenger trains were supposed to reverse into the platform at Shepherdswell after running round on a loop beyond the platform ramp. When officialdom was absent, they allegedly left the passenger train in the loop and invited passengers to walk along the track to join the train.

[Fat Controller]

Gravity shunting was also practiced at Killin Station. The train engine propelled the coaching stock

(usually just a single Thomson non-corridor) uphill out of the platform in the direction of Killin

Junction where the guard screwed his brake on tight. The engine then uncoupled and ran back to

the station where it hid in one of the sidings until the guard brought the train back down through

the station and past the goods sidings. The loco then came out, coupled up and drew back into the

station ready for the next trip.

 

Jim

 

Edit - I think the GNoSR station £1.38 referred to is Banff. The same general layout as Killin, with

no run-round loop but a handy hill just outside the station.

Wasn't there a similar arrangement for one of the branches from Wellington (Shropshire)? ISTR that the person/club who built the exhibition model of the station had to resort to a powered coach to replicate the manoeuvre.

[Tequila Sunrise]

Wasn't there a similar arrangement for one of the branches from Wellington (Shropshire)? ISTR that the person/club who built the exhibition model of the station had to resort to a powered coach to replicate the manoeuvre.

 

Possibly Coalport?

[Fat Controller]

Possibly Coalport?

I think it was one of the Great Western branches- perhaps the one to Buildwas?

[Unicorn1]

Back on topic, East Kent Railway passenger trains were supposed to reverse into the platform at Shepherdswell after running round on a loop beyond the platform ramp. When officialdom was absent, they allegedly left the passenger train in the loop and invited passengers to walk along the track to join the train.

 

Indeed, at the other end, Wingham Canterbury Road, passengers rarely (never?) made it to the platform. The train would stop outside the station, the loco being uncoupled and run into a siding. The passengers were then invited to climb down from the train before it was run down to the platform by gravity. The loco then rejoined the main line and followed into the platform. In fact this arrangement meant that the passengers were adjacent to a footpath into Wingham, saving a longer walk from the station!

 

Les

[hmrspaul]

They used to propel from the down side carriage sidings at Euston into the platforms, again some considerable distance. That came to an untimely halt one day when a new shunter was in the back brake, nearest the stops, and was told to apply the brake when t eh train was near the stops.

 

The driver, wondering what had gone wrong, went to the back of the train, where said shunter had gone a bit purple in the face explaining that "de dam breyak won't screw on no more maan". He had tried to stop the train on the hand brake, not the air brake!! Lukcily no damage was done!

 

LMS coaches appear to have been specially designed for such propelling movements. At the brake end some at least had windows in the end - if necessary either side of the corridor connection. As a kid I can remember watching rake descend into Euston, under the control of shunter or guard whom was clearly controlling the descent with the brake in the coach. I think the propelling locomotive had already dropped off.

 

Paul Bartlett

[DaveF]

At various times I have spent holidays in Switzerland and have watched operations at Zurich. I have often seen parcels vans, and sometimes coaches, being propelled towards a platform, the loco braking quickly to a stop and the van/coaches continuing by themselves towards the buffer stop with a shunter controlling the brake.

 

But odd things do happen in Switzerland. One day in Zurich I found one platform line had the buffer stop removed, track jacked up, extra track laid across the conourse on the ordinary surface with a steam engine (in steam) on display. The platform meanwhile was still in ordinary use.

 

David

[The Stationmaster]

Gravity shunting of passenger stock instead of running round went on at a couple of places that I know of on the Western - Maiden Newton (junction for Bridport) and - as is probably much better known - at Yelverton (for the Princetown branch train).

Having done a quick bit of Rule Book checking I can't find anything which bars the use of gravitation to shunt passenger stock instead of the loco running round and as far as the Southern is concerned it is perhaps illuminating to note that it was expressly prohibited at Ilfracombe which suggests that it was permissible unless prohibited by an Appendix etc item. Alas the one bit of the Southern I don't have an Appendix for is the Isle of Wight so I can't check if it was prohibited at Cowes.

[Porco Rosso]

Yes, I think its another case of modern eyes assuming things are too unlikely or dangerous to have been allowed, when in reality they were matter of fact at the time!

[edcayton]

I would think that the results of gravity shunting at Ilfracombe could have been rather spectactular!

 

Did anything ever go through the buffers here?

 

Ed

[Jim]

I remember being the trainman/second man on a special formed of a Crompton and a rake of mk1s for a shuttle between Ashford and hastings, I think there was some steam chuffing about too that day.

We had to propel out of the down carriage sidings into Ashford station right across the main line. I told the driver that I would nip down the back and see him back. I was walking through the train when the driver just started to push back anyway. To my horror all the drop windows had bars over them and I wanted to be seen waving the driver back to avoid awkward questions from a traction inspector. I didn't have time to get to the back where the brake van was so I stood on a table with alternatively squeezing my head having a quick look back and waving my arm out of the top sliding window.

Unlike now, you only needed outlet signal to get into any of the platforms.

I should've dropped the handle but didn't want to upset the driver. Famous last words!

[The Stationmaster]

I remember being the trainman/second man on a special formed of a Crompton and a rake of mk1s for a shuttle between Ashford and hastings, I think there was some steam chuffing about too that day.

We had to propel out of the down carriage sidings into Ashford station right across the main line. I told the driver that I would nip down the back and see him back. I was walking through the train when the driver just started to push back anyway. To my horror all the drop windows had bars over them and I wanted to be seen waving the driver back to avoid awkward questions from a traction inspector. I didn't have time to get to the back where the brake van was so I stood on a table with alternatively squeezing my head having a quick look back and waving my arm out of the top sliding window.

Unlike now, you only needed outlet signal to get into any of the platforms.

I should've dropped the handle but didn't want to upset the driver. Famous last words!

Actually the Driver should have dropped the handle if he couldn't see any handsignals from you - but he no doubt 'done it dozens of time before with no problems mate'.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Happened everyday at Derby, well into the late 1980s. ECS being propelled by the train engine from Etches Park CS, round a sharp curve, across the flat crossings of the goods lines, through single and double slips into the station platforms. Peter

[caradoc]

There are still booked propelling moves of loco-hauled passenger coaches, with passengers on board, in Britain to this day.

[Guest Natalie Graham]

Killin was a good example of gravity shunting of passenger stock as there was no run=round loop once was line was truncated.

 

At Moniaive on the G&SWR's Cairn Valley line the loop was away from the platform so the stock must have been propelled back. When that line was worked by the railmotor which was later seperated into loco and coach the train could have up to two coaches added to it at the coach end so the railmotor was propelling two coaches ahead of it all the way to Dumfries. The method of working was that when they extra coaches were added the fireman would control the brake from the carriage end of the railmotor from where he could communicate by bell with the driver while the guard kept a lookout from the end of the leading carriage, from where, it appears, he couldn't communicate with anyone.