2012 / 13/14.....Dukedog?

[Ian Hargrave]

Hi Brian,Never considered Rhydlafar....Ian

More coincidence....I was an outpatient there as a child....late 1940's,for a small lower spinal problem,which has now returned to haunt me in later life !!

As an addendum to my posting about St.Athan excursions,I can vividly remember an eccentric addition at the head of the excursion ,originating from Merthyr,which my father and I joined at Abercynon.It was an ex-GWR slip coach,then liveried in BR crimson and cream.The one and only time I got to travel in one.Quite how and why it was there,I will never know but excursion stock frequently turned up surprises.A 'corridor' coach in Valleys trains was something to savour...at least it had a toilet on board!

I can....just....remember USRA 2-8-0's on the Vale of Neath line through Cwmbach and one of the last 'Aberdare' class....that would be on a late 1940's stroll with my grandfather.

[br2975]

More coincidence....I was an outpatient there as a child....late 1940's,for a small lower spinal problem,which has now returned to haunt me in later life !!

As an addendum to my posting about St.Athan excursions,I can vividly remember an eccentric addition at the head of the excursion ,originating from Merthyr,which my father and I joined at Abercynon.It was an ex-GWR slip coach,then liveried in BR crimson and cream.The one and only time I got to travel in one.Quite how and why it was there,I will never know but excursion stock frequently turned up surprises.A 'corridor' coach in Valleys trains was something to savour...at least it had a toilet on board!

I can....just....remember USRA 2-8-0's on the Vale of Neath line through Cwmbach and one of the last 'Aberdare' class....that would be on a late 1940's stroll with my grandfather.

 

The No.1 Branch was/is very local to me - being brought up a couple of fields from the line at the Waterhall Jct end; by that time we had one or two trains a day, from Creigiau Quarry to East Moors Works via Radyr. Waterhall Jct being my alternative to Ely (Main Line) as a spotting location - due to being able to bunk into the Cymric Trading yard and play on the narrow gauge track and wagons.

.

Much of the No.1 Branch is still passable - if you wear waders !

.

Over the years there have been murmurings of it re-opening to Creigiau, with a Park & Ride at the M4 Jct.33 services - perhaps the proposed Cardiff LDP will allow for it - I personally would forgo this re-opening, if it stopped the LDP !!.

.

The Valleys were 'notorious' for strange coaches, such as the low roofed immigrant from the BPGV that haunted Brynmwawr and worked excursions to Barry Island occasionally in the late 1950s, and at least one BR(SR) green BR Mark 1 in the mid-60s. As for the pre-grouping auto-coaches and workmens coaches, I wish I'd been around to experience them.

.

Brian R

[Ian Hargrave]

I think one of those was a regular on the long gone Pontypridd-Ynysybwl branch.Workmens' coaches did duty between Aberdare and Bwllfa Colliery.

[The Stationmaster]

I think one of those was a regular on the long gone Pontypridd-Ynysybwl branch.Workmens' coaches did duty between Aberdare and Bwllfa Colliery.

Ynysybwl was a push-pull working for many years before closure as there was no run-round facility at Old Ynysybwl station (and neither in the north end bays at Ponty I believe) and some BR period photos definitely show some very old cars in use on the service..

[tomparryharry]

The No.1 Branch was/is very local to me - being brought up a couple of fields from the line at the Waterhall Jct end; by that time we had one or two trains a day, from Creigiau Quarry to East Moors Works via Radyr. Waterhall Jct being my alternative to Ely (Main Line) as a spotting location - due to being able to bunk into the Cymric Trading yard and play on the narrow gauge track and wagons.

.

Much of the No.1 Branch is still passable - if you wear waders !

.

Over the years there have been murmurings of it re-opening to Creigiau, with a Park & Ride at the M4 Jct.33 services - perhaps the proposed Cardiff LDP will allow for it - I personally would forgo this re-opening, if it stopped the LDP !!.

.

The Valleys were 'notorious' for strange coaches, such as the low roofed immigrant from the BPGV that haunted Brynmwawr and worked excursions to Barry Island occasionally in the late 1950s, and at least one BR(SR) green BR Mark 1 in the mid-60s. As for the pre-grouping auto-coaches and workmens coaches, I wish I'd been around to experience them.

.

Brian R

Off topic, but...

 

What happened to the scheme to run Llantrisant (Pontyclun) to Cwm?

 

Ian

[7013]

Lovely sequence Railroadbill the Dukedog always looks smooth and serene when running.

[Unicorn1]

Bishopscombe's arrived on Saturday. (I haven't fully refitted the tender till I get the extra weight just right). I was going to wait a bit longer, but seeing them 'in the flesh' at the Canterbury MRC Show was too much!

 

 

I can only agree with others here who have complemented this model - it really is outstanding.

 

Now which number, and where is my LCGB headboard.......

 

Les

[Stevelewis]

I have  noticed  something  about  my  2  Dukedogs  which  I find  a little  strange,  I would   add at  the  start of  this  that it is  something  that  doesnt   concern me too much  and  if  I only  had  the  1   would  probably  have  never  noticed,

 

There  appears to be  a  height difference  at  the  fron of the  2 locos  of  around 2mm, ( approx 1/2 diameter of the buffers!!)

 

I just  happened  to  buffer  them up and  noticed, at  first  I condidered  that  the  bogie  spring may be  the  cause, but after  removing the  bogies,  and  ensuring that  all 4 drivers of each loco were absolutely flat a level I took the  attached  pics  and the  height difference  is  apparent,  I can confirm  that  the  tender  coupling is playing no part  in this discrepancy  and  as  far  as  I can  tell neither locos footplate  is bent

 

Both  locos  run impeccably so I am not  too concerned  akthough it  would be  nice  to know which loco is  the  correct  height!!  The height  of  the  Black loco to the top of the  buffer beam  is  18mm  the green one  is 16mm

Edited January 20, 2014 by Stevelewis

[coachmann]

Re height different, the weathered one looks to have been in winter storage. Have you checked if it has any water in the boiler...?

[Stevelewis]

No  I emptied  it  already!!!!  But I may have  the  answer  I will  report  further  after  HINTERLAND BBC1 Wales only!

[tomparryharry]

Hi Steve,

 

Try turning them back to back, to see if one is higher.

 

Ian

[Stevelewis]

Re  the   Problem of  height I reprted  earlier:-

 

I think  I know the  reason  for  the  height  difference,  the coupled  driving  wheels appear to be mounted in a sub frame this  is secured by a single central screw  at the  front end ( not sure how the  rear is  secured but possibly it fits into a slot in the main frame.

 

When both locos  were inverted I found  that pressing  this  subframe cased no movement on the  green loco, but on the  black one  theres was  upwards movement which meant  that the main frame of the loco could  be in a higher position than it  should be,  the  cab end of the loco is exactly the same hight as the green one so the height difference is only noticable at the front end of the loco.

 

I found  that  the  screw  holding in the  subframe  was tightl BUT examining the same screw on green loco  noticed  that the Black one's screw was slightly more exposed!!!

 

To cut a long  story  shorter!  the Black screw  appear to have been cross threaded, thus not screwed in far enough and allowing  the subframe a little movement thus causing  the  height difference.

 

The  solution was to use  a slightly longer  screw  which screwed in further  and now  holds the subframe solidly  ALL SORTED OUT,  I hope that  some one  from  Bachmann reads this  or someone passes the info on!

[Cy Lindercocks]

Re  the   Problem of  height I reprted  earlier:-

 

I think  I know the  reason  for  the  height  difference,  the coupled  driving  wheels appear to be mounted in a sub frame this  is secured by a single central screw  at the  front end ( not sure how the  rear is  secured but possibly it fits into a slot in the main frame.

 

When both locos  were inverted I found  that pressing  this  subframe cased no movement on the  green loco, but on the  black one  theres was  upwards movement which meant  that the main frame of the loco could  be in a higher position than it  should be,  the  cab end of the loco is exactly the same hight as the green one so the height difference is only noticable at the front end of the loco.

 

I found  that  the  screw  holding in the  subframe  was tightl BUT examining the same screw on green loco  noticed  that the Black one's screw was slightly more exposed!!!

 

To cut a long  story  shorter!  the Black screw  appear to have been cross threaded, thus not screwed in far enough and allowing  the subframe a little movement thus causing  the  height difference.

 

The  solution was to use  a slightly longer  screw  which screwed in further  and now  holds the subframe solidly  ALL SORTED OUT,  I hope that  some one  from  Bachmann reads this  or someone passes the info on!

 

 

I have often found that screws securing then body to chassis on Bachmann locos. are cross threaded.

[tomparryharry]

Here! They haven't fitted 'city' wheels under it, have they?

 

"They all looks t' same to me, them GWR 4-4-0's, with them outside bits wot goes roun' n roun'..."

 

 

Have coat, on pavement, awaiting taxi...

 

Ian

[railroadbill]

From my Ian Allan "British Railways Locomotives and Locoshed book 1955" reprint, here are the depot allocations for 90xx locos as shown in that book (hopefully correct).

 

81F  Oxford / Fairford

 

9015

 

84J  Croes Newydd/Bala/Penmaenpool/Trawsfynydd

 

9028

 

 

89A  Oswestry/Llanidloes/Moat Lane

 

9003

9010

9026

9027

 

89C  Machynlleth/Aberayron/Aberystwyth/Portmadoc/Pwllheli

 

9004

9005

9008

9009

9011

9012

9013

9014

9016

9017

9018

9020

9021

9022

9024

9025

 

Of course 9017 being preserved could nowadays be running in all sorts of locations using my modeller's licence.......

 

 

edited for typo

Edited January 21, 2014 by railroadbill

[Jim104]

Interestingly, Swindon 82C had a sub shed or stabling point at Andover Junc. This was part of the Swindon Marlborough and Andover Railway, which survived until 1958.

in 1948 Swindon had an allocation of 3 Dukedogs 9011-9018 and 9023, they were still there in1952, and in 1955 two remained 9011 and 9023.

One can only assume that these locos run this line until closure and they must have been seen at Andover during those years. Now there is an excuse to run them alongside Bulleid Pacifics !

(allocations taken from Jim Grindlay Modelmaster Publication)

Has anyone seen an image of one on this line ?

Edited January 21, 2014 by Jim104

[Coach bogie]

Interestingly, Swindon 82C had a sub shed or stabling point at Andover Junc. This was part of the Swindon Marlborough and Andover Railway, which survived until 1958.

in 1948 Swindon had an allocation of 3 Dukedogs 9011-9018 and 9023, they were still there in1952, and in 1955 two remained 9011 and 9023.

One can only assume that these locos run this line until closure and they must have been seen at Andover during those years. Now there is an excuse to run them alongside Bulleid Pacifics !

(allocations taken from Jim Grindlay Modelmaster Publication)

Has anyone seen an image of one on this line ?

 

The Earls seen on the M&SJWR were allocated to Cheltenham (3209) or Andover (3210/11) in 1938 joined by 3223 at Andover in 1939. As earlier threads, from 1948 onwards Images and diagrams show that Swindon allocations main duty was on freight working to Bristol with two engines, one working 7.45 Swindon-Stoke Gifford and the other the 7.25 Stoke Gifford - Swindon, passing each other on the way.The third was spare.

 

As the M&SJWR passenger workings were through from Cheltenham to Southampton, there was no easy opportunity to exchange engines, as the M&SJWR did not pass through Swindon Junction station.The usual working was the 10.29 Cheltenham -Southampton Terminus and 16.36 return. By BR days these workings were in the hands of Moguls and later the Standards.

 

The Didcot engine 9015 (9006 an early 1948 withdrawl) was more likely to be seen next to Bullieds as it continued in use on Southampton trains until the mid 1950's.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[railroadbill]

Got a book on the Didcot, Newbury and Southampton line which states that Dukedogs were used on it (during the second world war and after) but doesn't have any specific information or photos.  Were 90xx locos actually used on this line?

 

Actually, just re-read coachbogie's previous post where "The Didcot engine 9015 (9006 an early 1948 withdrawl) was more likely to be seen next to Bullieds as it continued in use on Southampton trains until the mid 1950's."  so -question already answered!  Thanks.

 

 

 

 

edited due to myopia

Edited January 21, 2014 by railroadbill

[Coach bogie]

With regard to the 1955 shed allocations, be aware that large numbers of Earls, although capital stock, were actually in store, (9003 from the list was withdrawn in 1955) due to the large number of Manors and standards, more capable of the heavier duties. The process of storing excess Earls began much earlier in 1950. Stored engines were moved to Stourbridge Junction, Craven Arms, Shrewsbury and Abercynon for the storage periods, with engines removed or added as required until 1957 when those stored were officially withdrawn leaving only eight engines in traffic. By this time most of the surviving engines were only used for short periods, spending winter months in store being retrieved for summer services and specials. Nice cosy enclosed cab of a standard on a very windy winters night or open cab of an Earl -if you were a militant ASLEF driver which would you be expecting?

 

I forgot to add, some of the duties lost to the Didcot engine after 1954 were later regained by another 4-4-0 as in 1957 3440 City of Truro was used on the Didcot Southampton runs for some time.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Ian Hargrave]

Abercynon....really ? Obviously,I accept what you say....but ,as one who travelled up & down the line between Aberdare and Cardiff,nearly always changing at ,Abercynon,I have no memory of them .The only oddity I can recall on shed in the 50's was Webb Coal Tank 58926 which spent some time there.Thanks for that...an interesting posting....well,for me ,then a local boy,anyway

[tomparryharry]

Abercynon....really ? Obviously,I accept what you say....but ,as one who travelled up & down the line between Aberdare and Cardiff,nearly always changing at ,Abercynon,I have no memory of them .The only oddity I can recall on shed in the 50's was Webb Coal Tank 58926 which spent some time there.Thanks for that...an interesting posting....well,for me ,then a local boy,anyway

More likely Stormstown, if anywhere near Abercynon. I've always thought that Abercynon shed was too small & busy to have anything standing about too long. Aberdare, possibly? Thinking about it, Abercynon sent it's withdrawn locos to Cardiff East Dock about that time, as I've got some photos here of Taff Vale 'A's standing on CED's ash roads, ex Abercynon....

 

Ian

Edited January 21, 2014 by tomparryharry

[railroadbill]

With regard to the 1955 shed allocations, be aware that large numbers of Earls, although capital stock, were actually in store, (9003 from the list was withdrawn in 1955) due to the large number of Manors and standards, more capable of the heavier duties. The process of storing excess Earls began much earlier in 1950. Stored engines were moved to Stourbridge Junction, Craven Arms, Shrewsbury and Abercynon for the storage periods, with engines removed or added as required until 1957 when those stored were officially withdrawn leaving only eight engines in traffic. By this time most of the surviving engines were only used for short periods, spending winter months in store being retrieved for summer services and specials. Nice cosy enclosed cab of a standard on a very windy winters night or open cab of an Earl -if you were a militant ASLEF driver which would you be expecting?

 

I forgot to add, some of the duties lost to the Didcot engine after 1954 were later regained by another 4-4-0 as in 1957 3440 City of Truro was used on the Didcot Southampton runs for some time.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Thanks for that, Mike. Very good point that because locos were nominally allocated to a particular depot they weren't necessarily all in service at the same time, could be stored but still on the books. Think a lot of passenger and goods stock got used the same way, being kept spare then taken out for busy periods. 

 

In fact it would be interesting to know what proportion of a depot allocation (as recorded in "spotter" books of the time) was actually available for use at a given time, since some must have been out of service being repaired, overhauled  etc.

[Coach bogie]

Abercynon....really ? Obviously,I accept what you say....but ,as one who travelled up & down the line between Aberdare and Cardiff,nearly always changing at ,Abercynon,I have no memory of them .The only oddity I can recall on shed in the 50's was Webb Coal Tank 58926 which spent some time there.Thanks for that...an interesting posting....well,for me ,then a local boy,anyway

 

Due to lack of space on the main Cambrian sheds, with so many out of traffic, many engines were sent to the lesser used sheds.

 

Example 9021 spent September 1956 to June 1957 at Abercynon in winter storage.

 

9021 was lucky. One of only eight engines to survive the winter 1956/7 storage, returning to Aberystwth from Abercynon. 9008-12/16/20/22-28 deamed not worthy to bring back into summer service and were towed direct from storage to Swindon for cutting in the July.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Edited January 22, 2014 by Coach bogie

[tomparryharry]

I'd like to see a photo of 9021 on Abercynon. If nothing else, it would mean I'd be able to use a Dukedog on my layout.

 

Most likely to be a 'paper exercise'. Pannier 9629 was withdrawn from Pontypool in 1964, and sent to Woodhams, Barry. How come I've got a photo of the loco on shed, at Llantrisant, in the company of 4261. Both locomotives are withdrawn... A similar fate befell 9612. Transferred from Aberdare to Radyr. The loco didn't do any work, as it was withdrawn en route.

 

I'd suggest that locos were 'marked up' to depots, but not actually stored there.

 

Ian

[nickwood]

A couple of pages back post no 504 I posted this link which gives all Dukedog first and last shed allocations together with some other usefull info.  Seems to have got missed in the earlier general discussion so worthg repeating.

 

http://www.greatwestern.org.uk/m_in_440_dukedog1.htm