2012 / 13/14.....Dukedog?

[tomparryharry]

I do have one question I have 9017 but want to change it, I want to use it for ash mountain layout,which is set between Pontypridd and Aberdare.

What I am looking for is a loco number that may have been near to these locations who's number I could use?

Also are there any good books on the duke dogs and the sort of area and work they did?.

Thanks.

Darren

Hi Darren,

 

I've got the same problem as you. my 'backwater' means that Dukedogs only got to within about 30 miles. I'd reckon the nearest they got to Aberdare would be Brecon, or possibly Merthyr, but at a very big long shot.

 

I'd suppose you could put one on as an SLS special. They ran all over the place, and with locomotives not normally seen in that location. The yellow route availability allows them access to most of the network. Farm specials, etc, is another 'reason'.

 

Remember modelling rule number 1

 

Ian

[Coach bogie]

There is always an excuse (as if anyone needed one) and that is the 1950's was the decade of the railtour and the Earls were a popular choice. My friends, who would not normally run GW have a Truro for the same reason. Using SLS or RCTS headboards from 247 you can have your own railtour.

 

Some genuine ones and look what the Earls double headed with.

 

14/6/53. 9000 (with topfeed and small tender)  ran a SLS  railtour from Birmingham(roundtrip) out via Cheltenham, down the MSWJR to Swindon for a works visit. Return via Andover, Basingstoke, Reading Oxford.

 

One which was recreated last night in the train room courtesy of a couple of visitors. 24/9/55 9027 (topfeed and large tender) with T9 30304 on Talyllyn railtour to Towyn. In our version the Hornby T9 was doing all the work as the Earl could not manage the eight coach train. A silmilar railtour ran on 22/9/56 with a Dean goods 2538 and Southern D 31075.

 

28/9/57 9021 (topfeed) with L&Y 2-4-2 50781 again on a Talyllyn railtour. They took over from City of Truro. Now there is an engine change to be modelled!

 

26/9/59 9014 and 9004 (both with topfeed) together on another Talyllyn railtour.

 

And remember 9017 travelled all the way to the Bluebell under her own steam light engine.

 

It your trainset - run your own railtour perhaps

 

Mike Wiltshire

[The Fatadder]

thanks Rich, I am assuming underneath the tender ?

cheers Jim

Yes

Between the first and second wheelset

[tetsudofan]

.......not quite sure I can explain this.......

 

 

   

 

Keith

[Metr0Land]

Hitachi finally build something as good as Swindon?

[tomparryharry]

One of them is very different...........it's red!  

 

Sorry, couldn't resist

 

Jeff

For those of you watching in black & white, it's the one at the bottom left hand corner....

 

Ian

[The Stationmaster]

Dear Richard Chapman.....if you disagree with my posting,perhaps you would do us the courtesy of explaining why.I made a posting of historical record....with,I believe,the expression of just one opinion.

 

And while I can't comment on NCB matters it was certainly pretty accurate as far as the Western part of the post was concerned so nothing to 'disagree' with there - maybe the bloke pressed the wrong button?

 

Anyway back to 90XX and their far from well known frequent operations over the North & West Line (in my dreams, of course) but ideal for local freight workings.

[7013]

Keith's picture...One Dukedog and one dog or is that hotdog

[Ian Hargrave]

Hi Darren,I've got the same problem as you. my 'backwater' means that Dukedogs only got to within about 30 miles. I'd reckon the nearest they got to Aberdare would be Brecon, or possibly Merthyr, but at a very big long shot.I'd suppose you could put one on as an SLS special. They ran all over the place, and with locomotives not normally seen in that location. The yellow route availability allows them access to most of the network. Farm specials, etc, is another 'reason'.Remember modelling rule number 1Ian

Possible scenario ( post Sunday lunch fantasy).Troop train for Dering Lines barracks in Brecon,double headed by 2251 class ,coupled inside Dukedog of choice? 66th RA Tonfanau via Moat Lane and Three Cocks Junction to Brecon.There you go.....job done! Whatever....just enjoy.

[tomparryharry]

Possible scenario ( post Sunday lunch fantasy).Troop train for Dering Lines barracks in Brecon,double headed by 2251 class ,coupled inside Dukedog of choice? 66th RA Tonfanau via Moat Lane and Three Cocks Junction to Brecon.There you go.....job done! Whatever....just enjoy.

Sorry Ian,

 

Can't really see troop trains running over Common Branch Junction...

 

Nice try though....

 

Another Ian

[nickwood]

 

I do have one question I have 9017 but want to change it, I want to use it for ash mountain layout,which is set between Pontypridd and Aberdare.

What I am looking for is a loco number that may have been near to these locations who's number I could use?

Also are there any good books on the duke dogs and the sort of area and work they did?.

Thanks.

Darren

 

Darren and anyone else looking for shed allocations, have a look here http://www.greatwestern.org.uk/m_in_440_dukedog1.htm

[Ian Hargrave]

Sorry Ian,Can't really see troop trains running over Common Branch Junction...Nice try though....Another Ian

Well,they might be heading for RAF St.Athan,via Barry and The Vale of Glamorgan line ....excursions from Valleys destinations for the annual air display did follow that route....56XX hauled,mind. 614 Squadron flew Vampires,as I remember.

[mow]

Who will be first to model the Seadog?

Is that for the Spike Milligan wartime troop train?

 

http://www.youtube.

com/watch?v=4aVMnIyUpYo

[tomparryharry]

Well,they might be heading for RAF St.Athan,via Barry and The Vale of Glamorgan line ....excursions from Valleys destinations for the annual air display did follow that route....56XX hauled,mind. 614 Squadron flew Vampires,as I remember.

So, I'm assuming the train 'came off' at Treforest, and up the hill to Tonteg. Where then? Creigau? Or Llantrisant, and Penarth Curve?

 

Ian

[Ian Hargrave]

No....straight to Barry via Cregiau...direct over S.Wales main line.Then Wenvoe to Diglis Junction into Barry,

Edited January 19, 2014 by Ian Hargrave

[Andy M]

I finally succumbed to the charms of the Dukedog today and acquired a weathered black version. It will become 9023, one of the trio that were loaned by Swindon to Newton Abbot in 1954/55 for trial on pilot duties. Along with 9011 and 9018, their stay was short and unsuccessful as they proved underpowered for the heavier trains and disliked for the primitive cabs compared to the usual Grange and Manors. It is a little early for my 1958 period but so was the 72xx, and I couldn't resist that either!

 

As others have said, first impressions are that we have another little gem from Bachmann.

 

Andy.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Andy M

[jcm@gwr]

For those of you watching in black & white, it's the one at the bottom left hand corner....

 

Ian

 

Or even the top right,

for those not watching from the Southern Hemisphere!

 

Jeff

[railroadbill]

9017 has been running round loft with 3 mk1s very well, 4 just ok but 5 a struggle. Weighted tender idea posted earlier may be looked at but actually a 3 coach train probably fine for layout.  Found a picture of a Dukedog in BR days near Barmouth with 5 on, but another pic with one on a 2 coach train.

 

This link (if it works!)  is to a rather nice sequence of 9017 on the Llangollen railway in 2009 (with 5 coaches)

 

 

Also found a good film of 2 Dukedogs double heading a railtour in 1960 on "Railway Roundabout 1960" video, but couldn't find a clip on youtube unfortunately.

 

 

ps when I typed in Dukedog to youtube search, it listed some videos of American racoon traps.  (ok, plus a lot of videos of the preserved engine).

Edited January 19, 2014 by railroadbill

[darren01]

Hi 

I had a look and i am going to do 9018 as the loco for my layout, and i will be using rule 1 lol.

I going into town later this week so i may pop in to the shop and see if he has any, only looking...

Darren

Edited January 19, 2014 by darren01

[Blobrick]

I finally succumbed to the charms of the Dukedog today and acquired a weathered black version. It will become 9023, one of the trio that were loaned by Swindon to Newton Abbot in 1954/55 for trial on pilot duties. Along with 9011 and 9018, their stay was short and unsuccessful as they proved underpowered for the heavier trains and disliked for the primitive cabs compared to the usual Grange and Manors. It is a little early for my 1958 period but so was the 72xx, and I couldn't resist that either!

 

As others have said, first impressions are that we have another little gem from Bachmann.

 

Andy.

 

I wonder did any of the three mentioned above get used on the local traffic from Exeter down the "Branch" towards Kingswear. I ve seen photos of 78xx acting as bankers over the banks and working locals so in the same vein could the 90xx also been tried?

[railroadbill]

Just got down from loft. Blimey, it's 20 past midnight!   OK, Dukedog certainly is a little gem.  Could watch those outside cranks going round all night, oh I see I nearly have.

 

Seems to pull 4 coaches ok now, provided they are very free running. Just purrs along.  Superb.

[Brian Hawkins]

After many hours of running in over the last couple of days I decided to test the pulling power of 9022, she is hauling 7 maroon MK 1's with absolute ease around my layout at the moment, I'm delighted with this model and very tempted to purchase the other two models that are available.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Brian Hawkins

[br2975]

Sorry Ian,

 

Can't really see troop trains running over Common Branch Junction...

 

Nice try though....

 

Another Ian

 

I wouldn't discount this scenario out of hand.

,

During WWII ambulance trains were routed over the Llantrisant No.1 Branch (from Waterhall Jct - Common Branch Jct.) conveying injured U.S. troops to Rhydlafar Hospital (later The Prince of Wales Orthopaedic Hospital).

.

The U.S.A.C.  12th. Field Hospital had been despatched to Rhydlafar in late 1943 to establish medical facilities in/around the existing hospital which first opened in 1917, during WWI. Their journey in the UK was by train - but where they left the train, I don't know.

.

The 12th. Field Hospital were 'relieved' at Rhydlafar by the 348th. Station Hospital at the start of 1944.

.

The nearest potential railhead to Rhydlafar Hospital was Crofft Y Genau Siding (or as the GWR would have it - Croft Y Guinea) - on the No.1 Branch;  the access road or dirt track from Crofft Y Genau Road  down to the lineside still exists near the road overbridge, but the single ended siding would appear to have been be too short to accomodate such a train.

 

EDIT:- The siding was facing 'up' trains e.g. those approaching from Waterhall Jct to Common Branch Jct.

.

EDIT:- The next closest siding was at Pant Y Gored, about a mile further on, but that was closed/lifted by 1940.

 

I don't know if there was a loop at Creigiau Quarry in those days, so this limits any run-round facilities on the branch.

.

Logic would have it that ambulance trains from the Channel ports would run through Cardiff General, then Penarth Curve(s) through Ninian Park Halt to Waterhall Jct to access the branch - without the need to run around.

.

Accessing the branch via Llantrisant and Common Branch Jct would require a run around at Common Branch Jct. (but in fairness would then allow the train to exit the branch at Waterhall Jct. with loco facing the 'up' direction)

 

As there were no run around facilities at the Waterhall Jct. end of the branch I wouldn't be surprised that trains, having unloaded their injured passengers and medical staff would continue on to Common Branch Jct. and run around there, before travelling via Cross Inn, Cowbridge Road, Mwyndy Jct and regaining the SWML at Llantrisant with the loco now at the head end of the train for the 'up' direction.

.

Traffic was so light on the branch that such trains wouldn't cause any great interference with the then couple of coal trains and 1or2 stone trains using the branch each day.

.

The branch saw a few enthusiasts specials over the years, including a SLS special in the early 1950s employing a 64XX and two pre-grouping auto trailers (ex C.R. or T.V.R.).

.

The TVR also trialled their steam railmotors on the branch before the were put into daily service.

 

You 'may' find more in the Oakwood Press books "Taff Vale lines to Penarth" or "Llantrisant Branches of the Taff Vale Railway"

 

Ambulance trains also ran to Creigiau station on the former Barry Railway main line, most probably leaving the GWML at St. Fagans then negotiating Ty'n Y Caeau Junction to reach Creigiau, from where the injured were conveyed by ambulance to Rhydlafar Hospital.

 

Run around facilities would be available at Creigiau.

 

Hope this helps.

.

Brian R

Edited January 20, 2014 by br2975

[tomparryharry]

Hi Brian,

 

Never considered Rhydlafar....

 

Ian

[br2975]

The only 'Dukedog' I'm aware of to run in the area was 9017.

.

On 12th. May, 1956 - the Gloucester Railway Society ran a special over the following routes - using ex-TVR 0-6-2T No.391, Dean Gods 2538 and 'Dukedog' 9017.

.

Gloucester - Newport - Risca - Aberbeeg - Brynmawr - Merthyr Tydfil - ( via Hirwaun ?) - Neath -  (via Duffryn Rhondda tunnel ?) - Treherbert - Pontypridd - Caerphilly (works) - (Aber Jct - Penrhos - Ty'n Y Caeau Jct ??)  - St. Fagans - Cardiff General - Newport -Gloucester.

.

There are photos in existence of Dean Goods 2538 arriving at Treherbert from Neath, and south of Merthyr.

.

There are also photos of 391 at Caerphilly Works platform.

http://railphotoprints.zenfolio.com/p608550011/h2A856A06#h2a856a06

.

The Cardiff - Gloucester leg was worked by 9017, and the loco was captured waiting to take over the train, at Cardiff General, by John Hodge.

 

Brian R

Edited January 20, 2014 by br2975