RMweb Premium melmerby Posted December 20, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 20, 2014 The first loco kit that I built (Wills J39)in the early 1970's, used a Triang chassis, but even then I fitted it with Romford Wheels (using the Triang coupling roads), and I was the "Complete Amateur". It was pretty soon fitted with a five pole motor to improve slow running. Thane of Fife. Same here I built a 94XX Wills kit and used a Triang 0-6-0 chassis with all insulated & flanged Romford wheels and 5 pole version of the XO4 motor I also used a single start brass worm gear and brass pinion (Triang used a two start worm at the time) It wasn't brilliantly made but still better than much of the cr*p on e-bay! Keith 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWeatheringMan Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 (edited) Not wanting to bore people too much with my trials and tribulations of buying what I thought was a 2nd tooling Bachmann 44. Having opened a dispute yesterday had a chain of responses from them including this. " Seller's message: 'If as you claim I did not describe the item, then how can it be not as described, if you were unsure and it was not clear why did you not ask? You are now claiming it has been tampered with by a third party and adding in a few extra claims like missing handrails for good measure, which is again not true as you well know. Which is it not as described, as described but tampered with or imperfect or a new one. It is not a lie to state you raised the state of the item in our very first e-mail exchange and as you repeat you claim again in your latest version of Jackanory I think we can conclude you did raise this as an issue. If your tactic is to throw as many possibilities as you can to get me give in, there is not a chance. The item I sent was EXACTLY as described on the packaging of the original box that the item was supplied in. Providing forum links and copies of guides has no relevance, it can not confirm what you claim to have received and again I ask e-bay to disregard this evidence' The model is an Olivia's train D4 Great Gable (the third party they refer to) but largely resembles 44008, so clearly mark I tooling. The photo provided in the listing was 44004, and clearly the 2009 second tooling was implied you'd be getting. I offered to provide a screen shot from Ramsay's guide in evidence, and sent photos of the cr&p handrails, one missing etc etc. I've never had such a bad experience with an ebay user before, this person takes the biscuit to put it mildly. Sorry if this is boring everyone, but these people walk amongst us and occasionally sell model railway stuff Neilimage.jpg Hi Niel, A rather incredible coincidence has just struck me. The model you have recieved is in an Olivias Trains box. The seller is clearly a rude sort with no sence of how to deal with a customer with a genuine complaint. There is another thread that discusses problems with a cirtain retailer connected with the label on your box. Many of these complaints mention the total lack of customer service and a rude attitude. Very small world isn't it !! Regards Edited December 20, 2014 by TheWeatheringMan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Well thanks Robbie but im trusting ebay to take appropriate action. I'm still of the opinion this individual hasn't a clue what they sold, and were just sloppy when putting up the listing. I've just been taken aback by accusations I've photographed another model, and not the one sent!! Lied about missing handrails etc, a desperate seller I suspect. I've uploaded much evidence today, it's quite a bit of work, a person to avoid in the future. eBay haven't let me down yet, but there's always the first time ... Neil I think you should keep your evidence to eBay as simple as possible. "This is the photo on the listing and this is a photo of what I received," should suffice. A non-expert will not understand the differences between the various releases of the same model. However, a picture should make the difference clear. Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 That's the problem with allowing people to come to your house and pay cash. Disreputable miscreants have been known to turn up, pay the money and take the goods, then claim 'goods not delivered' and get their money back through ebay, who in turn take it back from the seller and give him black marks in the process. In fact I had someone attempt it on a £250ish item I was selling. Buyer claimed their was a 'problem with his paypal account' and asked if he could collect and pay cash. Yeah right....... On the flip side it's a real bummer when honest people have furniture and suchlike to sell as it pretty much has to be collection only, so you're laid wide open to scammers. Hmm, I think you've got this one the wrong way round. If you are SELLING something on ebay and the buyer wants to collect, then YOU need to insist on cash, because that way ebay will not refund as the buyer has not used Paypal. The scam can occur when the buyer pays by Paypal, collects in person and then claims the goods were not received. As a BUYER, if you collect and pay cash, you cannot then open a dispute with ebay, but you do of course have a chance to examine what you're getting before parting with the folding stuff. Your buyer could not have pulled a scam in the way you describe...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rail-Online Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Not wanting to bore people too much with my trials and tribulations of buying what I thought was a 2nd tooling Bachmann 44. Having opened a dispute yesterday had a chain of responses from them including this. " Seller's message: 'If as you claim I did not describe the item, then how can it be not as described, if you were unsure and it was not clear why did you not ask? You are now claiming it has been tampered with by a third party and adding in a few extra claims like missing handrails for good measure, which is again not true as you well know. Which is it not as described, as described but tampered with or imperfect or a new one. It is not a lie to state you raised the state of the item in our very first e-mail exchange and as you repeat you claim again in your latest version of Jackanory I think we can conclude you did raise this as an issue. If your tactic is to throw as many possibilities as you can to get me give in, there is not a chance. The item I sent was EXACTLY as described on the packaging of the original box that the item was supplied in. Providing forum links and copies of guides has no relevance, it can not confirm what you claim to have received and again I ask e-bay to disregard this evidence' The model is an Olivia's train D4 Great Gable (the third party they refer to) but largely resembles 44008, so clearly mark I tooling. The photo provided in the listing was 44004, and clearly the 2009 second tooling was implied you'd be getting. I offered to provide a screen shot from Ramsay's guide in evidence, and sent photos of the cr&p handrails, one missing etc etc. I've never had such a bad experience with an ebay user before, this person takes the biscuit to put it mildly. Sorry if this is boring everyone, but these people walk amongst us and occasionally sell model railway stuff Neilimage.jpg Neil, I am 100% sure your e-bay complaint will come out in your favour. We are NOT bored with this, I for one am watching this case with great interest as I am a regular buyer and have never had this sort of problem! One question - did you return it to the seller (with proof of postage) for your full refund? BTW I think Geoff is correct, a simple claim of 'item received is damaged, missing parts and not the one photographed in the advert' should have been sufficient. Cheers Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted December 20, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 20, 2014 Well thanks Robbie but im trusting ebay to take appropriate action. I'm still of the opinion this individual hasn't a clue what they sold, and were just sloppy when putting up the listing. I've just been taken aback by accusations I've photographed another model, and not the one sent!! Lied about missing handrails etc, a desperate seller I suspect. I've uploaded much evidence today, it's quite a bit of work, a person to avoid in the future. eBay haven't let me down yet, but there's always the first time ... Neil Seems to me the seller's picture of the item for sale was lifted from Hatton's - http://www.ehattons.com/23514/Bachmann_Branchline_32_652_Class_44_Peak_diesel_44004_Great_Gable_in_BR_blue/StockDetail.aspx Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 (edited) Neil, I am 100% sure your e-bay complaint will come out in your favour. We are NOT bored with this, I for one am watching this case with great interest as I am a regular buyer and have never had this sort of problem! One question - did you return it to the seller (with proof of postage) for your full refund? BTW I think Geoff is correct, a simple claim of 'item received is damaged, missing parts and not the one photographed in the advert' should have been sufficient. Cheers Tony I had an issue with a seller recently, albeit a non-railway matter. The wrong item was received; I contacted the seller through eBay's messaging system & was promised the correct item and a SAE to return the incorrect item. The replacement failed to arrive, so after allowing a week I simply opened a 'not as described' case with eBay, printed off the pre-paid return form supplied by eBay, stuck it on the parcel & handed it in at the Post Office. eBay tracked it all the way to the supplier receiving it and I had my money back in my PayPal account 2 days later. Edited December 20, 2014 by MarkC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Downendian Posted December 20, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 20, 2014 (edited) I've just offered a compromise lets see - some of the dialogue was a real joke, obviously a non-railway buff trying to argue the specifics of class 44s with me- I think not. I can use an 8-pin chassis with the forthcoming GBL peak, let's see if they accept, otherwise it's going to eBay. Big softy that I am thinking though perhaps they've already spent the £60 on their kids Xmas presents hence the battle royale! So Tony no item not returned, I just wanted to see if the seller would admit their error, and then offer a possible solution. I'm sort of pleased this is rare, I've only had two other issues buying model railway stuff from ebay with 600+ feedback. Edit : compromise met £20 off - reasonably happy now 44 chassis with DCC chip to be used for GBL peak project, where are those air tanks for the brakes? Neil Edited December 20, 2014 by Downendian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodmin Bob Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 I've just offered a compromise lets see - some of the dialogue was a real joke, obviously a non-railway buff trying to argue the specifics of class 44s with me- I think not. I can use an 8-pin chassis with the forthcoming GBL peak, let's see if they accept, otherwise it's going to eBay. Big softy that I am thinking though perhaps they've already spent the £60 on their kids Xmas presents hence the battle royale! So Tony no item not returned, I just wanted to see if the seller would admit their error, and then offer a possible solution. I'm sort of pleased this is rare, I've only had two other issues buying model railway stuff from ebay with 600+ feedback. Edit : compromise met £20 off - reasonably happy now 44 chassis with DCC chip to be used for GBL peak project, where are those air tanks for the brakes? Neil I can't help thinking that this guy is getting away with it if you go down the compromise route! From the tone of his message I would think 'stuff it' and fight for a full refund - all guns blazing! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 I was was wondering just who would want to display this pile of cr rubbish. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GAIETY-STATIC-DISPLAY-MODEL-OF-GWR-CLASS-57XX-0-6-0T-PANNIER-TANK-LOCO-/400794043226?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item5d512fc35a Leaving aside the ridiculous price (around fifteen to twenty times its value IMHO - but then it is Cartmel!), this item has been tampered with in a misguided attempt to detail the model (I'm being kind here) so it does not even have the excuse of being a collectable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWeatheringMan Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 I was was wondering just who would want to display this pile of cr rubbish. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GAIETY-STATIC-DISPLAY-MODEL-OF-GWR-CLASS-57XX-0-6-0T-PANNIER-TANK-LOCO-/400794043226?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item5d512fc35a Leaving aside the ridiculous price (around fifteen to twenty times its value IMHO - but then it is Cartmel!), this item has been tampered with in a misguided attempt to detail the model (I'm being kind here) so it does not even have the excuse of being a collectable. Hi, This rubbish isn't even described correctly in his advert as he states its in lined out livery - really, I cant see any lining at all !. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 I was was wondering just who would want to display this pile of cr rubbish. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GAIETY-STATIC-DISPLAY-MODEL-OF-GWR-CLASS-57XX-0-6-0T-PANNIER-TANK-LOCO-/400794043226?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item5d512fc35a Leaving aside the ridiculous price (around fifteen to twenty times its value IMHO - but then it is Cartmel!), this item has been tampered with in a misguided attempt to detail the model (I'm being kind here) so it does not even have the excuse of being a collectable. "New: A brand-new, unused, unopened and undamaged item" - say WHAT??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nedrahn Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Here's an example from one of the usual suspects: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WILLS-KIT-BUILT-FINE-SCALE-00-LMS-ex-MR-0-6-4T-FLAT-IRON-TANK-MIB-/301365377464?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item462ac6b9b YOU ARE BUYING A "RARE" & HARD TO FIND KIT-BUILT WILLS KITS MODEL OF A LMS (ex-M.R.) CLASS "FLAT IRON" 0-6-4T TANK LOCO. FINISHED TO THE HIGHEST PROFFESSIONAL STANDARDS IN LMS LINE -OUT BLACK LIVERY WITH GOLD/RED DECALS AS No.2039 What a load of twaddle as the lining is hand drawn with presumably a fine brush, not even using a ruler, and doesn't include all the boiler bands. It also has an old Triang/Hornby chassis with wide wheels which wouldn't be compatible with finescale track. It is a mere £295, and I wouldn't give 10% of that for such a heap of ****. I'm glad I don't have; "The Higest proffessional (sic) standards", as all my locos are built to a much higher amateur standard. Thane of Fife So rare that you can still buy the revised kit from South Eastern Finecast, brand new. I've noticed that a number of dealers describe anything kit built (or even old) as rare, and you certainly get the same nonsense in the camera section (including the odd 'rare' Zenith E - yeah, right). It's about time eBay allowed the reporting of deceitful and misleading descriptions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Reichert Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Where would ebay be, if it were not for a steady supply of worn out and/or broken toys? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 (edited) Hi, This rubbish isn't even described correctly in his advert as he states its in lined out livery - really, I cant see any lining at all !. Regards I was going to point that out, but forgot. On the other hand the whole ad is inaccurate. For a start, despite the number, it's not a 57xx but a 2721 (footplate valences and steps, chimney, whistles on cab roof....). Edited December 20, 2014 by Il Grifone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted December 20, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 20, 2014 I was was wondering just who would want to display this pile of cr rubbish. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GAIETY-STATIC-DISPLAY-MODEL-OF-GWR-CLASS-57XX-0-6-0T-PANNIER-TANK-LOCO-/400794043226?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item5d512fc35a Leaving aside the ridiculous price (around fifteen to twenty times its value IMHO - but then it is Cartmel!), this item has been tampered with in a misguided attempt to detail the model (I'm being kind here) so it does not even have the excuse of being a collectable. Oh gawd.......... not the Gaiety Pannier again.................. A perennial favourite of this thread. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted December 20, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 20, 2014 Oh gawd.......... not the Gaiety Pannier again.................. A perennial favourite of this thread. Cheers, Mick He paid good money for that & expects to get it back, eventually (in the voice of Manuel, since the item, is about as popular as Basil's gambling on race horses). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thane of Fife Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 I find myself agreeing with Bodmin Bob. After the insulting messages I wouldn't be in the mood to compromise. Thane of fife Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Oh gawd.......... not the Gaiety Pannier again.................. A perennial favourite of this thread. Cheers, Mick It just happens to be a Gaiety pannier., but could have been any piece of junk being hyped up and seriously overpriced. They are after all a collectable. Every collection of vintage model railways should have one. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thane of Fife Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 A certain suspect from the Lake District recently listed this item: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-CLOCKWORKMODEL-R9026-0-4-0ST-BEN-R110-ANNIE-R112-CLARABEL-TRAIN-SET-/400811776324 He sold the item but withdrew from the sale and then relisted at a higher price. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-CLOCKWORK-MODEL-R9026-0-4-0ST-BEN-R110-ANNIE-R112-CLARABEL-TRAIN-SET-/400816136256?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item5d5280e040 Is this honourable practice? Thane of fife Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted December 21, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 21, 2014 At least the key is in full working order! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 A certain suspect from the Lake District recently listed this item: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-CLOCKWORKMODEL-R9026-0-4-0ST-BEN-R110-ANNIE-R112-CLARABEL-TRAIN-SET-/400811776324 He sold the item but withdrew from the sale and then relisted at a higher price. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-CLOCKWORK-MODEL-R9026-0-4-0ST-BEN-R110-ANNIE-R112-CLARABEL-TRAIN-SET-/400816136256?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item5d5280e040 Is this honourable practice? Thane of fife He obviously got the price wrong. It's not particularly honourable but it did get him a negative feedback and will have counted as a defect on his selling record so he didn't get away with it scot free! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 He obviously got the price wrong. It's not particularly honourable but it did get him a negative feedback and will have counted as a defect on his selling record so he didn't get away with it scot free! Can't argue with that Feedback - it's pretty damning. Mind you, shame on eBay for allowing the withdrawal, especially after payment had been made. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Can't argue with that Feedback - it's pretty damning. Mind you, shame on eBay for allowing the withdrawal, especially after payment had been made. They don't usually, it's a breach of contract. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 They don't usually, it's a breach of contract. They have no way to "not allow" as they can't force him to post it. So far as eBay are concerned it was sold. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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