Ye Olde Triang/Hornby R118 Bogie Well Wagon

[John M Upton]

Hello

 

I have one of the really ancient Triang/Hornby R118 bogie well wagons sitting on my workbench and rather than chuck it in the scrap bin, it is going to get a cheap as chips makeover.

 

Can anyone tell me on what prototype (if any) it is based or whether it was one of Triang's genric jobbies? Also when were these last made?

 

I have always rather liked them to be honest, there is something about the simplicity of the model that with a bit of work will still look reasonably decent even today.

 

Many thanks!

[kevinlms]

Is this the Trestol wagon? Apparently based on the BR diag. 2/681 of 1950/51.

 

Rail Mod 1994(12):569

 

Rail Mod 1996(2):66

 

Kevin Martin

[RJS1977]

The tricky part of any mod is going to be rewheeling owing to rthe cast metal bogies. If you find a way to do this, let me know how you get on!

[JZ]

I've got one of these as well. Mine has plastic bogies. Like your's John, it is still waiting on the workbench.

[mirreles31]

Hi John, if you can get your hands on an issue, there's an article in Scalefour News (Feb 2012) by Brian Self, about a quick upgrade of one of these. Apparently the Triang model is a scale 7' 6" short, but this compramise is entirely within the well section, making it fairly easy to lengthen. Hope this is of help.

 

Regards Phil.

[BernardTPM]

Late versions have plastic bogies. In both cases the bogies could be replaced by removing the brass rivet. Obviously in real life the bogie fixing isn't visible from above so there's a hole to fill in the plating. It's a fairly typical design if a little chunky (the tooling goes back over 50 years, after all) but there are drawings out there (the Barrowmore pdf collection) and photos (Paul Bartlett's site the obvious first stop).

The Trestrol is a little newer (1963, I think) with much finer detail and always had plastic bogies. It's not quite full scale length, but it's still a big wagon!

[kevinlms]

The tricky part of any mod is going to be rewheeling owing to rthe cast metal bogies. If you find a way to do this, let me know how you get on!

 

I've never owned one, but this page suggests that they had plastic bogies at some stage.

 

http://www.tri-ang.co.uk/well.htm

 

Kevin Martin

[halfwit]

By strange coincidence I've been working on one of these recently;

 

 

I didn't realise that they were based on a real design, I just thought that they were a generic well wagon, although they bear some resemblance (if you squint) to a Head Wrightson product.

I've replaced the bogies with Cambrian plate frame items and fretted out the solid floor. Buffers are some A1 Models ones that have been lying around.

This has been sitting on my workbench for a couple of years, I'm now finally getting it finished. Livery will be dirty black.

Mine's going to be a 'freelance' internal user wagon, for a future industrial layout.

Edited February 18, 2012 by halfwit

[Pennine MC]

I didn't realise that they were based on a real design, I just thought that they were a generic well wagon, although they bear some resemblance (if you squint) to a Head Wrightson product.

 

Specials are not my strong point, but I'd assume the basis was an LMS or LNER wagon (the two companies had quite a bit of commonality and shared design effort in some areas). I'd always thought it inferior to the big Trestrol tbh, but that coat of red primer shows how essentially 'right' it looks even if it's not strictly authentic; shame that cant always be said for later Margate wagons.

[Il Grifone]

The cast bogies can be easily rewheeled (whether it's worthwhile is another discussion!). One of the wheels is splined on to the axle, while the other is free to rotate (and slide to and fro). Working from the loose side, push the axle out with a suitable piece of rod (another axle for example). Replacement wheels can then be fitted in the reverse manner. (Most modern wheels are fitted on 2mm axles and can be removed without much difficulty and then the axle - maybe a new piece of 2mm rod - can be inserted in the bogie and the wheels fitted to it. Washers may be necessary.

 

Many years ago, Peco used to do nylon replacement wheels for Tri-ang stock and these turn up from time to time at swapmeets etc. You require the smaller 10.5mm size for these bogies. I have one to hand - Peco No. 3 conversion kit for Tr-ang (Mk. II & III) goods bogie stock. The price tag states 3/6d.

 

I would be interested to know of a prototype - I have one in 'Battlespace' khaki. It appears to be an LMS design, but I don't have sufficient information for a positive identification.

 

The 'TRESTROL' can be lengthened by splicing in a section fron a second example.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Il Grifone

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

The way I rewheeled the cast metal diamond frame bogies (which for their pre 1960 introduction date are quite near scale other than the ghastly wheels) as follows.

 

Knock out the axle as described above.

 

With as little bending as possible insert a new pinpoint wheel set into the frame. Take a pinpoint bearing, ideally using one without a flange, or simply pull the flange off, insert one side. If it really is loose in the hole, wrap tape round the bearing to make it a less rattly fit. Push in a wodge of strong filler in behind, nowadays something like Milliput would be the ideal material. Adjust wheelset and bearing position to centre in bogie frame, allow filler to go off. Repeat process other side thus trapping the new axle. Clean up axlebox faces, add new front cover if desired. Variation: shorten axle and form new pinpoint, insert one flanged bearing from inside, insert wheelset, insert second flangless bearing from outside, fill behind both bearings to secure.

[John M Upton]

Many thanks for the responses so far. Very interesting. The well wagon I have on my workbench at the moment came to me in a brown livery and with a broken bogie so the one and a half remaining ones have been removed - plastic type for those whilst a second one I have now unearthed has the earlier cast metal bogies.

 

Milliput is now drying in the bogie mounting holes and in the true spirit of the parts bin job this prototype refurb is going to be, a spare pair of Lima Seacow bogies with smaller wheels will be tried on it first.

 

I will post pics later as I progress.

 

EDIT - The link above shows my second example is in fact the all but identical R236 'Depressed Centre Car' which explains the different number and no buffers.

 

I wonder if the moulds for this is still lurking somewhere in a dusty corner in Margate? Stick a couple of decent bogies and a basic paint job and bung it in the Railroad range for a fiver and they would shift. They have revived worse from the past of late...

Edited February 18, 2012 by John M Upton

[BernardTPM]

They were certainly using it in the 1990s in one of the military sets that had Hummers in moulded in a light cream with brown camoflage markings on the deck, surprisingly with Tri-ang style metal buffers and moulded underneath as Hornby R130!

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...I wonder if the moulds for this is still lurking somewhere in a dusty corner in Margate? Stick a couple of decent bogies and a basic paint job and bung it in the Railroad range for a fiver and they would shift. They have revived worse from the past of late...

Another old wagon model that would apply to is the bogie brick wagon. The body has a few flaws, the floor had raised lands instead of gaps between the boards for example, but taken overall it is a scale model; and now they wouldn't be using the heat process to put on the lettering the worst feature of the old product would be eliminated. Dressed in their current standard paint finish and lettering with new running gear it would be of about matching standard to the ex-Airfix wagons in the main range.

[John M Upton]

They were certainly using it in the 1990s in one of the military sets that had Hummers in moulded in a light cream with brown camoflage markings on the deck, surprisingly with Tri-ang style metal buffers and moulded underneath as Hornby R130!

 

That was the 'Strike Force' set which was in fact single axle lowmac wagons. I suspect has the R118 moulding been available still this is the sort of set it would have made an appearance in though.

[BR60103]

EDIT - The link above shows my second example is in fact the all but identical R236 'Depressed Centre Car' which explains the different number and no buffers.

 

We were quite frustrated in Canada as the bogie wagons available here often came with no buffers but still with the big holes in the buffer beam. Nobody in Canada stocked buffers as extra parts.

[Il Grifone]

The way I rewheeled the cast metal diamond frame bogies (which for their pre 1960 introduction date are quite near scale other than the ghastly wheels) as follows.

 

Knock out the axle as described above.

 

With as little bending as possible insert a new pinpoint wheel set into the frame. Take a pinpoint bearing, ideally using one without a flange, or simply pull the flange off, insert one side. If it really is loose in the hole, wrap tape round the bearing to make it a less rattly fit. Push in a wodge of strong filler in behind, nowadays something like Milliput would be the ideal material. Adjust wheelset and bearing position to centre in bogie frame, allow filler to go off. Repeat process other side thus trapping the new axle. Clean up axlebox faces, add new front cover if desired. Variation: shorten axle and form new pinpoint, insert one flanged bearing from inside, insert wheelset, insert second flangless bearing from outside, fill behind both bearings to secure.

 

The de-luxe rewheeling method! (I didn't mention it, as I'd already waffled on too long). I wouldn't bend anything though. (Mazak is tough, but breaks easily). It's much easier to shift the wheels on the axle - you probably only have to move one.

 

AFAIK the only differences between the British and Transcontinental versions are the markings and the lack of buffers. (Early acetate (warped) coaches and locos are a cheap source of these - usually cheaper than the price the spares merchants put on the buffers alone.)

[Colin]

Just to go very slightly off-topic (apologies!), what about the old Triang steel dropside open wagon (it was produced in maroon IIRC and had XP branding). I always rather liked mine and after a repaint into bauxite it survived for several years after I'd upgraded my freight fleet courtesy of Airfix, Ratio & Mainline. It's probably under scale length (AFAIK Triang wagons were on a scale 9' wheelbase) but does anyone know of the prototype?

Also the bogie tank from the late 60s - I had a white one branded "Murgatroyd" and there was also a red one with ICI logo.

[mark54]

Specials are not my strong point, but I'd assume the basis was an LMS or LNER wagon (the two companies had quite a bit of commonality and shared design effort in some areas). I'd always thought it inferior to the big Trestrol tbh, but that coat of red primer shows how essentially 'right' it looks even if it's not strictly authentic; shame that cant always be said for later Margate wagons.

It looks remarkably similar to a pair of SR Weltrols which I saw plans of in Southern Wagons Vol.4. The ends look basically correct but the well section should have 8 (rather than 5) vertical sections along the sides. It is possible to splice a section in the middle of the Tri-ang model and the length comes out at approx 55 feet which is roughly right (I don't have the book).

[Ravenser]

Just to go very slightly off-topic (apologies!), what about the old Triang steel dropside open wagon (it was produced in maroon IIRC and had XP branding). I always rather liked mine and after a repaint into bauxite it survived for several years after I'd upgraded my freight fleet courtesy of Airfix, Ratio & Mainline. It's probably under scale length (AFAIK Triang wagons were on a scale 9' wheelbase) but does anyone know of the prototype?

Also the bogie tank from the late 60s - I had a white one branded "Murgatroyd" and there was also a red one with ICI logo.

 

BR steel Medfit - Parkside do an accurate kit I think

 

The TT Medfit was in fact scale - and can be reworked with a proper kitbuilt chassis from the 3mm Society

Edited February 19, 2012 by Ravenser

[John M Upton]

This one seems fairly close:

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brweltrolwbb/h35d35384#h2b872a2b

 

Although I am firmly of the opinion that the Traing model is very much a bespoke design.

[John M Upton]

As I just bought myself a new camera I though this would be a good a test as any to see what it can do so...

 

This is the chassis I am using for the protoype upgrade. This had the later plastic bogies (well, one and half of them anyway!). Initially I tried Milliput in the holes and then drilling holes once it had dried for it to accept old Lima Seacow bogies clipping in, this hasn't really worked so I am going to raid my Dad's nut and bolt box next week!!

 

This is the survivng plastic bogie from the above wagon showing those really awful wheels. A bit of rust paint and shoving in a lineside hedgerow beckons for this...

 

The 'Depressed Centre Wagon' a.k.a. TR1371 (and if I were sold without buffers, I would be depressed...) which has the earlier cast bogies.

 

The classic earlier style cast bogies complete with the customary layer of fluff, dust and crud.

 

As soon as I have completed my first ever wagon kit in a few minutes (a Cambrian Turbot) which I think is what has got me started on this habit, the work can begin...

 

By the way, Cambrian sell the bogies of their kits seperately. Do they come with the mountings and bolt/nuts by any chance or are they just the mouldings?

Edited February 20, 2012 by John M Upton

[Fat Controller]

I'm pretty certain the ones on my workbench have the nuts and bolts, at least, in their bags- they are now also mainly 'one-piece' mouldings (bolster and sideframes as one-piece, with the details to add), which makes them a doddle to use.

[Pennine MC]

complete with the customary layer of fluff, dust and crud.

 

Ah, memories

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Indeed memories. My last such bogie well wagon (which came with a spark emitting Conqueror tank as what I now know to be an impossible load) is still in service in almost* original condition. With an LNER chair screw on it, it forms the baseline traction test for my operation.

 

(* In deference to code 75 sections the flanges have been crudely turned down.)