Camden Shed

[LNER4479]

21 hours ago, dggar said:

 

the first  50 seconds show a Blue 6229. I assume this must be 6220  with a swapped identity (The red 6229 went to the USA in 1939 in the guise of 6220)

 

 

Unquestionably the real 6220. The giveaway is the flare on the streamline casing at the bottom of the cylinders. Only the first 5 had this, to clear the cylinder by-pass valves, a feature not perpetuated on the remainder of the build.

 

Thanks for posting the link 👍

[stamford]

The latest edition of  British Railways Illustrated contains an article about Camden shed, excellent photos and shed track layout

[92220]

Thanks for the heads up.  Reading this at 11:15pm in Mumbai, and wondering how on earth I can get a copy!

Iain

[TerryD1471]

On 28/02/2023 at 12:28, dggar said:

I’ve come across this YouTube which shows departures from Euston in 1939 and early fifties. (The new Euston signal box commissioned in 1952 is shown)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRytH3vAzh0

 

the first  50 seconds show a Blue 6229. I assume this must be 6220  with a swapped identity (The red 6229 went to the USA in 1939 in the guise of 6220)

 

There then follows the departure of The Royal Scott showing it’s progress to beyond Primrose Hill tunnels.

 

At 1min 58sec you see the signaller in the Euston box press a button marked

Bank Engine. (As I know very little about signal engineering I’m not sure whether this just notifies the signaller in Camden No 1 box that the train is being banked or whether something more sophisticated is going on.)

 

At 2min 56sec the banking engine drops off very near to where Camden No 1 box stands. The Down Empty Carriage line and Up Engine line are shown to the right.

 

Yes, dggar, you are spot on with your information about the swap between 6229 and 6220. It's just so good to see colour footage of streamlined Duchesses, because it's as rare as hen's teeth, but that clip is particularly special; well spotted!

 

[dggar]

7 hours ago, 92220 said:

Thanks for the heads up.  Reading this at 11:15pm in Mumbai, and wondering how on earth I can get a copy!

Iain

You may be able to get a digital download.

[dggar]

Just come across some out-takes from TRAIN OF EVENTS.

 

No 1.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nk8b9EyG6Cg&t=35s

 

No 2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EM8n-j4FPc&t=15s

Edited March 31, 2023 by dggar

[dggar]

Some more details about these out-takes can be read here:-

https://railwaymoviedatabase.com/train-of-events/

 

I found this sentence particularly interesting:-

" Indeed, all this footage has since been collected together and released by Video 125 in their Steam on 35mm DVD."

[46256]

The change of identity on 46126….fascinating….superstition.? Then again D 326 ( 40136) Locomotives ending with that numeral?

[CRHT1837]

I last posted a comment more than two years ago, and hope my rather different focus on Camden Shed will not prove an irritant to this forum, which I greatly admire.

I am trying to write a book about the past, present and future of Chalk Farm Railway Lands, essentially Camden Goods Yard and the rail system from Primrose Hill Tunnels to Euston, This is a major update on the book I wrote a decade ago, and will have far more content and none of the 'before and after' character of the previous book. I am stuck on Chapter 12 "The new grouping to the end of steam". I would like to describe the movements associated with a passenger train, eg Royal Scot, from its arrival at Euston to the start of its next run from Euston. This will describe moving, parking and preparing empty carriages; servicing, refuelling and stabling a locomotive at Camden Shed; driver accommodation, arrangements board, and perhaps a beer or two, supported by relevant images to help tell the story.

Can anyone help me with a description of a typical sequence of operations in the late 1930s? The loco would assist an engine from Willesden in banking the empty carriages from Euston, peel off at Camden Shed, await its turn on the turntable while the crew is changed, turn to face north, move under the coal stage for refuelling with coal and water, then proceed to the south end via the back road, where ash would be removed. Where to next - through the shed? I am sure I have not got this right.

I have images and plans of the MPD. One of these plans is attached and has a series of red lines that I assume represent a new arrangement of tracks, planned in 1937.

Another question is how were the carriage sheds on Camden Bank managed in conjunction with Willesden?

 

Peter

[1BCamden]

Hi Peter,

trusting you are in good health, hopefully the weather is treating you well also.

had to smile at your list of questions, couple of years in that lot 🙂 

to get the ball rolling, I’ve attached a link to a YouTube piece by Alex Scott, it’s very good first hand on shed experience.

 

 

 

let me know how you get on, I also have a book by Laurie Earl, Camden driver of the day, it’s aimed at a schoolboy age, but it’s an interesting read regardless, it detailed the preparation and operation of the royal scot to Glasgow.

 

Best wishes 

Stanley 

 

Hi Iain, 

yes still here, great progress, love the YouTube video clips. How is Vincent, have you caught up lately.

 

very very best regards 

Stanley

Edited July 25, 2023 by 1BCamden

[92220]

Good afternoon Peter,

 

thank you for all and any contributions, absolutely none of which are, or are likely to be, irritations.  I’m delighted that this is of some interest, and I hope it might be more helpful if I build a bit more of it and operate it largely as intended.

 

Others on here have helped me hugely and will know more but here we go.

 

The 1950 track plan from BRILL July 1994 that I am working to matches the red revisions on the one above, and the 1948 OS map which I bought.  

 

From what I have gathered, locos would come on shed after taking an up train into Euston either:

 

Providing banking assistance to the ecs move out of the station, and coming on shed by falling back as the pilot and stock crossed from the Down EC line to the down fast and then down slow.  The two lines to and from Euston and the shed were effectively the “wrong” way around.

 

Some moves requiring banking assistance seemed to go straight along the down slow and so it would take a train loco via either down crossover and the scissors in whichever direction was appropriate onto the shed as it fell away from the rear of the stock. 

 

Or some locos simply reversed onto shed along the down EC line which doubled as a down loco line.  
 

Whichever of these happened, the loco was then moving tender first along the NE face of the shed to the turntable.  It was then turned, and then coaled, and ash deposited at the ashplant.  It would then take up a position at the SE end of the shed, facing north, awaiting reversing down the bank to Euston to take another down train out of London.  It would have been watered at one of the water columns as appropriate during this process, since the shed area was so tight.
 

If a loco needed more work than simply servicing, it would end up in the shed itself, having had the fire completely dropped rather than just cleaning the ash etc.

 

There is a lovely account with accompanying photos of all this in Modern Railways the world over 

 

 

 

I think that was the case from around 1937 when the modern coaling and ash plants were completed, until it stopped being a steam shed in 1963.  
 

Now, I’ve probably got something wrong, or have explained it poorly.  So please do feel free to ask.

 

best wishes,

 

Iain

[92220]

Hi Stanley, 

Always good to hear from you my friend.  All ok here, just v v busy and rarely have time here to do a lot.  Have completed the 3rd/4th rail on the DC/slow lines, hopefully managing to locate the barrow crossings/walkways correctly.  Now building the pointwork for the shed area and making sure it all works as I go.  Plus building a loco, well, just because!
 

 

All the very best

 

Iain

 

 

[CRHT1837]

Hi Stanley and Iain

Many thanks for your responses. I was hoping to hear from you, and of course anyone else with familiarity with Camden Shed. 

You have given me enough to get going, and I shall see if this throws up more questions as I go.

Iain, it would be great if I could feature your model in the book, just as I featured Copenhagen Fields in the book on King's Cross. I don't think it matters in what state the model will be when the time comes, as all such models are works in progress. The model could be part of the heritage, almost all disappeared, that is associated with Camden Shed.

Things are fairly busy on a number of fronts. I don't know if you saw the video I posted two years ago. Since then, Network Rail has shown a great interest and I have taken senior staff on walks around the area from the tunnel portals to the top of Camden Bank, as well as several visits to the winding vaults. While it is too early to say where the programme of work NR is planning will lead, I can attach a very brief summary of a study we have just completed for Stephenson Walk, effectively the forerunner project of .any programme. The book I am trying to write is seen as supporting this programme, so I may get some help from NR.

 

Best wishes

Peter

Stephenson Walk.pdf

[92220]

On 25/07/2023 at 16:51, CRHT1837 said:

Hi Stanley and Iain

Many thanks for your responses. I was hoping to hear from you, and of course anyone else with familiarity with Camden Shed. 

You have given me enough to get going, and I shall see if this throws up more questions as I go.

Iain, it would be great if I could feature your model in the book, just as I featured Copenhagen Fields in the book on King's Cross. I don't think it matters in what state the model will be when the time comes, as all such models are works in progress. The model could be part of the heritage, almost all disappeared, that is associated with Camden Shed.

Things are fairly busy on a number of fronts. I don't know if you saw the video I posted two years ago. Since then, Network Rail has shown a great interest and I have taken senior staff on walks around the area from the tunnel portals to the top of Camden Bank, as well as several visits to the winding vaults. While it is too early to say where the programme of work NR is planning will lead, I can attach a very brief summary of a study we have just completed for Stephenson Walk, effectively the forerunner project of .any programme. The book I am trying to write is seen as supporting this programme, so I may get some help from NR.

 

Best wishes

Peter

Stephenson Walk.pdf 546.37 kB · 19 downloads

Hi Peter,

Very happy to help in any way I can, and equally interested in your project.  I will send you a PM with my contact details, but feel free to contribute here too.

Thank you.

Best wishes,

Iain

[CRHT1837]

I have some history with Primrose Hill Station. The platform buidings and fine cast iron columns and spandrels were destroyed one weekend in December 2008 by Murphy, the Network Rail framework contractor. I made quite a fuss and was invited to find a new purpose for the fragments of ironwork, which I failed to do as it would have cost a fortune in both land and restoration. I believe that the ironwork was supposed to be taken to a heritage steam railway, perhaps that between Moreton-in-Marsh and Stratford. Does anyone have any information? I am posting some images of the ironwork in the station and in Murphy's Yard. This story needs a conclusion.

[92220]

Hi Peter,

I hope that at least some of the ironwork is still out there somewhere.  For the model version I’m probably going to have to compromise with the nearest fit from this page: https://yorkmodelrail.com/product-category/00-scale-ho-scale/canopy-brackets-and-valances/ 

Unless my 3D printing skills get a big boost quickly!

Best wishes,

Iain

[dggar]

I'm glad to see this thread is still active, I trust everyone is well.

[92220]

I hope everyone is well.

 

A few updates from Camden:

 

All the mainlines have been painted following the addition of all the 3rd and 4th rail (which took a while), and testing.

 

 

 

Progressing a little with building the track for the shed area.  There are two formations in particular that need to fit precisely together.  One is at the very eastern corner of the shed itself where there are 4 turnouts linked.  
 

 

And yes, I have run out of rail before completing these.  Awaiting C&L shipment now.

 

The second is the iconic Camden formation by the turntable, which I haven’t started yet but which I have to get right or the entire layout won’t work.  Me being me, I planned it a couple of years ago with simple pieces in Templot to ensure the alignment of track with the turntable itself, but didn’t get around to adding all the crossings, extra check rails and timbering.

 

 
 

I was planning to build this section using copperclad with a shim under the rail to add cosmetic chairs subsequently, on the basis that the complexity of adding all those check rails while still maintaining electrical isolations would be better achieved that way.  The rest of the s&c on the layout is ply timbers and plastic chairs as you can see.  

 

I could simply build around this template (or a better printed version than this rough one for planning purposes) by working it out myself or I could try to get Templot to do that work for me.  Any suggestions welcome.

I also built a DJH BR Standard 4.  For no very obvious reason.  But this one and one or two others will hopefully have a fair bit to do on stopping services and ecs in particular.  

 

There is a little detailing and tidying up to do before it can be finally cleaned and painted once the weather is warmer.

 

A few other things to come in another post.

 

Iain

 

 

 

[46256]

Iain great to see an update on this fantastic layout

 

best wishes Brian

[92220]

South end of the shed yard coming on well:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It all runs well with a light rigid wagon which ought to find most imperfections.  But there is a fair bit of wiring and testing with locos to do for everything to be signed off.  I’ve also, through incompetence, missed out the two inspection pits on the two roads immediately adjacent to the ash pits, so these need to be done.

 

Incidentally, that light rigid wagon is a part scratchbuilt and part Parkside spares ex LMS lowfit, which will eventually add a bit of variety to the wagon fleet serving the goods yard.  I’ll get around to finishing it and post some photos some time.

 

Iain

 

 

Edited February 15 by 92220
Photo position

[LNER4479]

Salivating ... 🤤🤪

[gz3xzf]

Iain

Your project is phenomenal, the scale is mind-blowing, I'm in awe of your skill and ability.
Keep up the good work I look forward to the updates to see how it is going. 😁👍

[92220]

On 16/02/2024 at 10:11, LNER4479 said:

Salivating ... 🤤🤪

High praise….. 🤪

 

😂

 

Seriously, thank you as always for the advice, support and encouragement, Graham.  Much appreciated.  I hope to bring some more Camden locos to assist with the roster on Shap at some of your future shows, if that would be appropriate, and in time I hope that we can reciprocate.   I think that the scene as it is will represent 1950ish to 1963 well enough, and with a couple of replacement signs on goods shed, signal boxes and mpd entrance, the model will be able to backdate as far as 1937.  Your 6221 with the Coronation Scot past the shed, anyone?  
 

You do make progress a little faster than I do, though!
 

11 hours ago, gz3xzf said:

Iain

Your project is phenomenal, the scale is mind-blowing, I'm in awe of your skill and ability.
Keep up the good work I look forward to the updates to see how it is going. 😁👍

Thank you, Bryan. That’s too kind.  I’m not especially skilful, honestly.  I just learned a great deal from a lot of generous, excellent, truly skilful and knowledgeable people on here and elsewhere, and I’ve been prepared to have a go.  
 

Hopefully, I will have some more updates to continue the story soon.

 

Best wishes,

 

Iain

[dggar]

This is looking really good.

[dggar]

Recent You Tube video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCskWjZ6Niw

"Favorite LMS Coronation locomotives" (That is how it is spelt in the caption)

Pictures at 0.07 , 0.12 and 0.59 at Camden.  

at 0.26 Euston platform 2

and at 1.09 what i think is 46236 arriving at Paddington during the Loco exchange trials shortley after nationalisation,