Camden Shed

[92220]

11 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Looks great, Iain.

 

I'd love to see a LNWR Teutonic with the 2pm Corridor on your layout.

Thanks, Jol….. I know you would!  Bring one, and it can.  But you might need to regauge it first!

 

Iain

[1BCamden]

Great video clip of progress to date Iain, your care and attention to the permanent way has really paid off in terms of smooth running, beautiful point transitions and not a wobble anywhere, fantastic.

All the very best and thanks for sharing

Stanley

Edited January 3, 2023 by 1BCamden

[1BCamden]

On 03/01/2023 at 05:55, 92220 said:

A New Year update from Camden, and all good wishes for 2023 to everyone who reads this, most of whom probably wonder whether I am on Pluto time if I am ever going to finish this.  
 

Anyway, here we go….

 

A couple of bits of building, and refinement of existing buildings.  The block below is such a characteristic feature of Primrose  Hill station in the period that I am modelling.  Yet, while there are many photos with it in, there seem to be almost none OF it.  It isn’t quite finished - there is a bizarre little square turret on the low part of the roof to add.  Then weathering.   The accompanying hut is also an improvement on what went before.  

 

 

 

The best photo I have of this was posted on this thread by Stanley (1B Camden) I think:

 

I’ve also started to get the station itself done.  Again, evidence isn’t easy to come by, but I hope this is a decent stab given the space I have, and it should provide a good backdrop to the main event.

 

Slaters platform canopy awning, and a scratch built platform and what I assume was a waiting room.  I have guessed at LM colour scheme, which will get a lot of weathering in due course as it was fairly down-at-heel by this time I think,  I have some stills from a YouTube video in NSE colours but only b&w fragments from the 60’s. I need some canopy supports,  York Modelmaking do some less ornate ones than those that were actually there, but I will probably go for these given it is only a background.

 

more to come…..

 

Iain

 

 

Hi Iain,

This is a beautiful model of the goods yard shunters amenities building, amazing how much detail is in such a small building.

 

The building was constructed to meet the very basic needs of the shunters and staff for goods arrivals and departures in and out of the yard. Prior to this the staff would use primrose hill station amenities, and prior to that the nearby signal box.

 

However over time this would have become a problem based on existing amenities and space hence this very unusual structure and its siting and purpose.

Being a very basic structure, and noting the flat roof of the main section, which you have captured so well, there was no cavity (loft space) for a water tank.

 

You would have noticed on the track side the number of small windows giving a hint to the purpose of this section of the building, possibly toilets and showers (haha), the adjacient breezeway (walkthrough) would support this.

 

The "bizarre little square turret" seems to have been altered over the life of the building, or has received some surface treatment that has changed the look of it.

But considering all the photo detail, tank overflow pipe, breeze blocks, and access hatch/cover/plate, it could be assumed, as you stated originally, to be an ablutions overhead water tank, which would also service the mess room, and possibly the adjacient admin offices, shunters lobby at the chimney end.

 

Quite a building in itself actually, where staff would access these facilities from the original second platform staircase entrance, instead of crossing the line, or coming in from the goods station proper.

 

Very best regards

Stanley

 

On 03/01/2023 at 05:55, 92220 said:

 

 

On 03/01/2023 at 05:55, 92220 said:

 

 

 

 

[92220]

Many thanks, as always, Stanley.

I assumed it was a building for those working in the yard but you’ve added a very helpful load of detail!

best wishes,

Iain

[1BCamden]

Hi Iain,

Thanks, and thank goodness it was built in BR days 😃 gets me off the hook.

The running session video looks fantastic, can’t get over how well everything looks and runs, definitely breaking some speed limits and making the bank look like something completely different to 1/70 🤣

as always 

stanley.

[92220]

Haha yes some of them were running way too fast for sure.  45735 will be hard to match a banker to.  
 

You need to drive the trains a bit on here because of the dive-under and the end curves.  So making a video is a 2 person job really.  

 

Iain

[92220]

A few little pieces of advancement, none yet completed.

 

The goods yard backdrop is now fully operational, with a separate storage yard.  I may yet connect it to the up fast which it adjoins, in order to access the main storage yard.  But I didn’t want to overcomplicate things and the idea of the goods yard being operational in any form was to provide occasional movement in the backdrop to the main lines and shed.  

Below is the approach on the scenic side.  Only the first turnout is operational - the others are to dead ends and on the inlaid trackwork it was beyond me to make operational turnouts. 
 

And below the 2 road storage to the “north west” 

 

 

I have little info about workings in the goods yard except:

 

photos of what I assume are 350hp shunters that would in time become 08s I suppose.  Not sure whether they would be in black or green because I haven’t bothered to investigate yet.  I have a few older photos of LMS Jackshaft shunters and would have loved to have a go at building a Judith Edge kit, but they were all gone by my period.
 

A tiny bit of info on the “Camden Goods” - a WCML equivalent to the Scotch Goods.  I have 1 photo of this double headed out of the yard with a Scot and a Black 5.

 

so I envisage a bit of wagon movement, plus the occasional arrival and departure.  Just to change the scene behind the main lines from the viewing side.

 

Iain

[92220]

Splitting this post up into parts, sorry.

 

Retaining walls for the dive under.  On the fast side of each wall, one long line of 80x250 strips, and in the slow sides, profiled 80 thou to follow the contour.  Clad in English Bond and topped with some strips to represent the chamfered profile.  
 

These were then attached to horizontal strips of 30 thou to enable me to locate them securely with pins to keep the curvature and the walls completely vertical.  The pins were then trimmed and dressed so the walls can be finished offsite and relocated.

 

Then, the beginning of a bigger job - 3rd and 4th rail.

 

Peco chairs - tried on the short section of the North London line through Primrose Hill station.  Like trying to glue vaseline to teflon with olive oil.  No solvent would touch them, not even butanone.  Also not cheap when you have 28m of conductor rail to add.  
 

C&L brass chairs? Very nice but in the region of £500+ by the time I would have finished.  
 

So, advice from Mr Worthington was to use brass pins and just solder the rail to these.  There is no obvious chair but I am hoping either it won’t matter or maybe I can put a spec of thick old white paint onto each before weathering away to very little.

 

So this section is a bit of a proof of concept before I do the rest.  The conductor rails sit a little low but this is deliberate as it helps track cleaning a lot.  Each pin needs tinning, trimming and its hole drilling accurately.  Then the code 55 FB rail is tinned on its underside and soldered to the pins in lengths.

 

 

I chose to paint this section to see how it would turn out, so here it is in primer.  My spanking new compressor has a different outlet to the airbrush hose I have, so the sleeper grime etc will have to wait a bit.
 

 

Feedback welcome.  I could redo this if I need to, and better to decide that now than later.

 

Finally, Primrose Hill station building needed a new roof. The original model from the old layout was extended, but extending the roof looked like it was too complex and too flimsy, so I set about making a much more complete and sturdy roof.  The building is sliced diagonally by the backscene so it’s not ideal, and the slight approximations mean that the exact roof profile of the prototype could not be followed.  But here we go:

 

 

 

 

Iain

Edited January 31, 2023 by 92220
Spelling correction and an addition

[Michael Edge]

What period is that? The last jackshafts were  withdrawn in 1967.

[92220]

I’m doing a year or two either side of 1960, Mike.  I meant that any remaining jackshafts had been moved elsewhere by then rather than that there were none left. As I recall, it was you who showed me the info in a book on your stand at Scaleforum a few years ago, in fact.  But equally happy if I have been mistaken and if it gives me the chance to have a go at what looks an interesting build, I will.

 

Iain

[Michael Edge]

Yes, they had all left Willesden by 1956.

[92220]

Thanks Mike, that confirms what I remembered.  Pity. Presumably their successors were just what became the 08.  My diesel shunter knowledge is pretty low.

 

Iain

[The Stationmaster]

On 31/01/2023 at 20:34, 92220 said:

Thanks Mike, that confirms what I remembered.  Pity. Presumably their successors were just what became the 08.  My diesel shunter knowledge is pretty low.

 

Iain

I saw quite a few of their LMS successors (they became Class 10) whose 12XXX number series immediately followed the jackshaft locos and I'm fairly sure some of those would have been at Willesden (checked the allocations - some of them were definitely at Willesden about the time I was bunking the shed there regularly).  I can't recall seeing any at Camden on the shed but they might well have been shunting over the other side of the running lines?

[92220]

Thanks Mike. I have a few photos with some diesel shunters in the background in the goods yard but I can’t post them.  I’ll try to read some numbers but they are a little blurred.

 

Would love to pick your brains on signalling one day.  I have the signalling diagram and plenty of not-very-clear photos.

 

Best wishes,

 

Iain

[The Stationmaster]

Signalling the running lines should be fairly straightforward (famous last words!) and while the DC lines might present some manufacturing challenges the  signalling system is simple enough if you have the necessary information (I have).

[Pannier Tank]

23 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

I saw quite a few of their LMS successors (they became Class 10) whose 12XXX number series immediately followed the jackshaft locos

 

The LMS/BR Design 12033 to 12138 became Class 11 under the TOPS system.

[92220]

On 03/02/2023 at 16:54, Pannier Tank said:

 

The LMS/BR Design 12033 to 12138 became Class 11 under the TOPS system.

As far as I can make out, the numbers on the shunters on the photos I have begin with 13 so I imagine someone (ie almost everyone) will know more than I do.  

 

A bit more progress on rebuilding Primrose Hill station:

 

Plastic roof added and marked up so the courses of slates can be glued on and not look horrific.  I couldn’t create the exact roof profile as on the prototype because the overall building shape is a slight approximation, so the ridge line on the section running SE-NW isn’t raised and it’s just an L shape. 

 

 

Using the same technique as I did before, which I think came from Geoff Taylor’s Right Track DVD.   Slate pattern printed on thick paper, cut out two lines at a time.  Each slate is cut only about 1/3 of the way through both courses so that there is the impression of separate slates when completed.

 

 

Each course is stuck on with PVA, overlapping one course at a time.  The PVA is then smeared over the top to smooth and seal.

 

 

The rest of the station buildings had a few more things done.

 

The platform was surfaced with 280 grit wet and dry paper, and edged with plastic profile.  Canopy roof used 400 grit - these seemed to give something in the way of texture but without overdoing it.

 

Stairway completed.  Roof of this and all of the Goods Shed workers’ ablutions building roof sections painted with a “bitumen” mix of satin black and talc.  The station building roof I made up a mix of Precision slate grey which is quite a blue-green grey, and a Humbrol grey. 
 

Water tank, gutters and down pipe made, painted and added - although a couple more still to do.

 

Need to add the station canopy supports too.

 

The section of the 4 mainlines in front of the station has now been sprayed with some track colour and sleeper grime, then cleaned.  Still to add the white paint blobs for the 3rd/4th rail insulators, but otherwise I hope it’s looking ok.

 

Iain

[Pannier Tank]

13 hours ago, 92220 said:

As far as I can make out, the numbers on the shunters on the photos I have begin with 13 so I imagine someone (ie almost everyone) will know more than I do.

 

The 13000 series later became D3000 series and finally the Class 08 / 09. If you have the full numbers I can let you know a bit more of their allocation history etc.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Pannier Tank
Additional info - 13015, 13016 & 13017 were allocated to 1B Camden in 1959/60 they became D3015/D3016/D3017 and then 08008,08009 & 08010 respectively.

[92220]

On 20/02/2023 at 09:30, Pannier Tank said:

 

The 13000 series later became D3000 series and finally the Class 08 / 09. If you have the full numbers I can let you know a bit more of their allocation history etc.

Thanks.  I had assumed the goods yard shunters would be allocated to Willesden, but helpful to know that some were 1B.  Come to think of it I had seen an allocation of 0-6-0 shunters in one of the shed books, but had also made an assumption here that crossing the very busy lines to get to the yard would be impractical and so they were there for some other duty.

Do you mean they were allocated there in 1959-60 or that they changed to the D numbers then?  I have found from http://shedbashuk.blogspot.com/2015/12/camden-1935-1963.html D3849 and D3850 were there in Jan 1960.

 

Iain

[Pannier Tank]

On 21/02/2023 at 10:21, 92220 said:

Do you mean they were allocated there in 1959-60 or that they changed to the D numbers then?

 

13015 was renumbered to D3015 09/1960 - Allocated 1B 09/1960 (from 1A)

13016 was renumbered to D3016 12/1957 - Allocated 1B  09/1960 (from 1A)

13017 was renumbered to D3017 05/1957 - Allocated 1B 03/1960 (from 1A)

[LNER4479]

On 30/01/2023 at 23:11, 92220 said:

 

I chose to paint this section to see how it would turn out, so here it is in primer.  My spanking new compressor has a different outlet to the airbrush hose I have, so the sleeper grime etc will have to wait a bit.
 

Feedback welcome.  I could redo this if I need to, and better to decide that now than later.

Hi Iain,

 

Just having a catch up, good to see continued progress.

 

You asked for feedback re your trial section of track painting. Not sure exactly what colour this is intended to be but if it's the colour of the rails then - for me - it's too red in hue. Rails in regular use don't rust, or at least don't display that somewhat hackneyed orange-red rust colour. The camera tends to pick up on and accentuate the red. For me, a brown-grey works better as a more discrete base colour. I use good ol' Matt29 as my base colour.

 

Are you planning to come up to the York show at all? I can return some of your coaches, plus the Brit & Black5 if you do.

 

Graham 

[92220]

10 hours ago, Pannier Tank said:

 

13015 was renumbered to D3015 09/1960 - Allocated 1B 09/1960 (from 1A)

13016 was renumbered to D3016 12/1957 - Allocated 1B  09/1960 (from 1A)

13017 was renumbered to D3017 05/1957 - Allocated 1B 03/1960 (from 1A)

That’s extremely helpful, thank you.

 

 

8 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Hi Iain,

 

Just having a catch up, good to see continued progress.

 

You asked for feedback re your trial section of track painting. Not sure exactly what colour this is intended to be but if it's the colour of the rails then - for me - it's too red in hue. Rails in regular use don't rust, or at least don't display that somewhat hackneyed orange-red rust colour. The camera tends to pick up on and accentuate the red. For me, a brown-grey works better as a more discrete base colour. I use good ol' Matt29 as my base colour.

 

Are you planning to come up to the York show at all? I can return some of your coaches, plus the Brit & Black5 if you do.

 

Graham 

 

Hi Graham,

 

If you’re looking at the photo I think you’re looking at, no that’s just in primer.  The section was subsequently sprayed using a Railmatch can:

 

 

If that looks too red, it’s helpful to know and I can adjust.  I was planning then to use the airbrush to weather the whole lot once ballasted, so this is just a base colour really.
 

Not sure about York yet - it falls during the only 10 days I am in the uk for the next 11 weeks, so a pink ticket may not be justified.  But thank you and if I can come, I will, and I’ll bring something appropriate to support the roster.

 

Iain

 

 

[dggar]

I’ve come across this YouTube which shows departures from Euston in 1939 and early fifties. (The new Euston signal box commissioned in 1952 is shown)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRytH3vAzh0

 

the first  50 seconds show a Blue 6229. I assume this must be 6220  with a swapped identity (The red 6229 went to the USA in 1939 in the guise of 6220)

 

There then follows the departure of The Royal Scott showing it’s progress to beyond Primrose Hill tunnels.

 

At 1min 58sec you see the signaller in the Euston box press a button marked

Bank Engine. (As I know very little about signal engineering I’m not sure whether this just notifies the signaller in Camden No 1 box that the train is being banked or whether something more sophisticated is going on.)

 

At 2min 56sec the banking engine drops off very near to where Camden No 1 box stands. The Down Empty Carriage line and Up Engine line are shown to the right.

 

[The Stationmaster]

4 hours ago, dggar said:

 

 

At 1min 58sec you see the signaller in the Euston box press a button marked

Bank Engine. (As I know very little about signal engineering I’m not sure whether this just notifies the signaller in Camden No 1 box that the train is being banked or whether something more sophisticated is going on.)

 

 

The button is on the train describer9td).  S o presumably when theh Signalman presses it it will indicate to the next 'box that the train is going to leave an engine in a section  behind it somewhere so the track circuit will still be showing occupied.   Basically the td equivalent of the 2-2 bell signal, 'Engine Assisting in Rear of Train' on the LMS Absolute Block Regulations 

[92220]

Thanks again dggar, and Mike.  That clip is wonderful.  

 

Iain

Edited March 1, 2023 by 92220