Camden Shed

[1BCamden]

LNWR Signal Box (type 5) CAMDEN No.5
Near the Primrose Hill Station and the bridge was a LNWR type 5 signal cabin (box), which is in your layout period, note that the locking room has had some windows bricked up, and that the locking room is narrower than the cabin.
Camden No.5 was the last surviving LNWR cabin in this immediate area, with Camden No.1 and No.2 being retired once the newer Euston (downside) Power Box came on line.
Camden No.3 and No.4 where located either near the Goods Engine Shed (roundhouse), in the goods yard or near the Engine Crew Hostel (reference attached drawings)
Kentish Town, Camden Town, Camden Town Junction (all the same box) was a North London Railway box.

with Copyright Bluebell Railway for one of the photos

Edited December 19, 2014 by 1BCamden

[1BCamden]

Hi Iain,

regarding the wall mounted crane/davit arrangements, the photograph I posted back at 172, shows the brackets/mounts (upper and lower) for the crane/davit arrangement, you can just make them out, and the buttress looks standard depth, so your model is good (great actually).

Edited March 23, 2013 by 1BCamden

[1BCamden]

LMS Signal Box (ARP type) CAMDEN No.1

Sorry about the BR class 4 4-6-0 75038 on a euston northampton 6:06 (22/07/1962) being in the way, but I think it was worth it, as we piece together the signal box, and check out that footbridge detail and signal gantry !!

Edited August 24, 2014 by 1BCamden

[1BCamden]

LNWR Elevated Cabin (type 5) CAMDEN No.2

At the original up fast 'flyover' it appears a standard LNWR type

Edited August 25, 2014 by 1BCamden

[Jol Wilkinson]

The LNWR "standard" type could be either a type 4 or type 5, the later and less common version having taller windows. Richard Foster's book A Pictorial Record of LNWR Signalling originally published by OPC provides a wealth of information and is still available from the author. If anyone wants a contact address for him, please let me know.

 

London Road Models do a Type 4 kit, for a "D" size with 25 levers. The interior and the material for the base isn't included, (the locking room etched widows and door are) so the builder can provide a stone, brick, timber or gantry base as required.

 

 

 

However the larger boxes can be built using two or more kits (e.g. as on the L&WMRS layout Clarendon). 

 

 

To my knowledge no one makes a kit for the later Type 5 box. The Bachmann offering is somewhat inaccurate and the window dimensions put it somewhere between a Type 4 and a Type 5.

 

Jol

[92220]

Hi Stanley,

 

Many thanks indeed once again for all of your help and encouragement. I am hugely grateful.

Where to start?

The track plan I have used extensively to design my somewhat truncated version - indeed the entire BRILL article has some brilliant information and photos. I made the decision to simplify the main lines when I was much less confident about my track building ability. They had to be done first so it made sense at the time. Should I rip up and rebuild including the fast-slow crossovers and the scissors off the down fast? Not sure I can entertain the prospect to be honest.......

Wall-mounted cranes.....of course. That is a proper 'doh' moment. How on earth could I have missed that?!? Problem now is that since my version is condensed, the up fast is adjacent to the goods shed and there isn't enough room to include the siding(s) that I know were there. No point having wall mounted cranes next to the up fast! Not sure what to do here yet. Any ideas?

 

The signal boxes - the two that concern me are your numbers 1 and 3. From various pics I have quite a decent idea of what number 1 looked like, I think. A modern brickbuilt box. Your pics of number 3 included in your posts are exceptionally useful.

 

Signage - I have some photos of the right era and although the writing is almost distinct I can only be 80% sure that it says CAMDEN GOODS DEPOT on a rectangular maroon standard BR(LMR) sign, flanked by a couple of British Railways signs.

 

Jol,

 

Grateful thanks to you too, very useful help for me there. I am thinking that a scratchbuild of this box may be the best way forward, using some etched windows. Geoff Taylor (no connection, just browsed his website....) appears to do some LNWR signal box windows including locking room and door.

 

I would much appreciate Richard Foster's contact details, if you could PM them to me?

 

Thanks again,

 

Iain

[ianwales]

The LNWR "standard" type could be either a type 4 or type 5, the later and less common version having taller windows. Richard Foster's book A Pictorial Record of LNWR Signalling originally published by OPC provides a wealth of information and is still available from the author. If anyone wants a contact address for him, please let me know.

 

London Road Models do a Type 4 kit, for a "D" size with 25 levers. The interior and the material for the base isn't included, (the locking room etched widows and door are) so the builder can provide a stone, brick, timber or gantry base as required.

 

 

Sig Box.JPG

 

However the larger boxes can be built using two or more kits (e.g. as on the L&WMRS layout Clarendon). 

 

Clarendon LNWR Sig box 2.JPG

 

To my knowledge no one makes a kit for the later Type 5 box. The Bachmann offering is somewhat inaccurate and the window dimensions put it somewhere between a Type 4 and a Type 5.

 

Jol

 

Hi

 

There is also a Type 4 box made by Modelex/Churchward which includes a resin brickwork base.

 

Ian

[Jol Wilkinson]

And Brian Lewis of Timbertracks is also apparently threatening to do a laser cut one (although I much rather he did the LNWR covered  timber footbridge I suggested to him).

 

For those that want a quick fix there is also the Prototype card kit 46M7: LMS (Draughton Road) Signal Box, another LNWR Type 4, size D.

 

The LRM kit has the advantage that you can use two or more to create a longer box (athough the D was the most common), with whichever base is suitable to the prototype location. One of the reasons why London Road No. 2 was built from two LRM kits.

 

 

Jol

[1BCamden]

Hi Iain,

definitely not, all the work involved in relaying the track, it's not worth it. You have captured the spirit of the location perfectly, and that's enough. Glad the photographs are of use, if anything they generate further discussion and information.

Regarding the goods depot wall detail, once painted and weathered, with the signal box to break up the length, it will probably just need the usual trackside equipment, and the two or three smaller structures to complete the scene. The key to the view will be at what angle you finally place the footbridge.

 

Even though the signal box is in the BR period, it's a real change in style and age, very exciting. Seen an article in MRJ a few years back now, which described the construction in brass, overlayed with plasticard. Quite an amazing result, considering the method.

 

best regards

[92220]

The footbridge will be the final scenic break so its position is partly fixed by that, but I think looking at all the evidence that this will be about right anyway.

 

I think you're right, I'll miss out the wall-mounted cranes as they would look more bizarre included than omitted.

 

Have been doing a load of finishing and detailing on the brickwork......fiddly and repetitive, I think Jason said!

 

Iain

[92220]

Here is another view of the signal box (no. 3 on Stanley's list) that I've been working from:

 

http://www.bluebell-railway-museum.co.uk/archive/photos/jjs/b03/3-60-1.htm

 

Copyright Bluebell Railway

 

 

From all the research so far....

It looks as if the locking room has 3 bays, the right hand of which has the windows bricked up.

What is the projection on the mainline side of the box? About halfway along..... Like the roof to a porch but it's in mid air.

No toilet at the top of the stairs?

[Jol Wilkinson]

 

 

From all the research so far....

It looks as if the locking room has 3 bays, the right hand of which has the windows bricked up.

What is the projection on the mainline side of the box? About halfway along..... Like the roof to a porch but it's in mid air.

No toilet at the top of the stairs?

 

Could the porch be just that, so that the window could be kept open without the rain getting in. Perhaps the signalmen used to issue instructions to the locomen.

 

The loo could have been at ground level, near the coal and ash pens.

 

Although not of Camden, there are some great photos of LNWR infrastructure to be found here http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/index.htm

 

In particular the photos of Rugby station show some of the variety of signal boxes that were located there, with different locations for the toilets, coal stores, etc.

 

Jol

[ianwales]

And Brian Lewis of Timbertracks is also apparently threatening to do a laser cut one (although I much rather he did the LNWR covered  timber footbridge I suggested to him).

 

For those that want a quick fix there is also the Prototype card kit 46M7: LMS (Draughton Road) Signal Box, another LNWR Type 4, size D.

 

The LRM kit has the advantage that you can use two or more to create a longer box (athough the D was the most common), with whichever base is suitable to the prototype location. One of the reasons why London Road No. 2 was built from two LRM kits.

 

London Road No. 2.JPG

 

Jol

 

Hi Jol

 

Is London Rd on the web anywhere?

 

Ian

[Jol Wilkinson]

Hi Jol

 

Is London Rd on the web anywhere?

 

Ian

Hi Ian,

 

London Road doesn't have a web "presence". I've never got around to it although there is a video of the layout in it's original terminus format by David Mylchreest on utube http://homepage.ntlworld.com/russelliott/nlg-london-road-watford-finescale.html.

 

I can only set up one section at a time to work on it, so decent photos are not easy to get at present.

 

I've used an occasional photo of the work on the "extension" to turn the layout into a through station. The two new scenic boards will be on show at expoEM in May, although there is no mention of that on the EMGS website. We'll also be taking the whole thing to S4um, although the scenic work won't be finished.

 

Jol

[92220]

I've done a fair bit but it feels as if I've done very little..... Lots of jobs that take time and I'm probably very slow at them too, and then there is the drying time between coats of paint etc.

 

I've also got to remember that these are the first buildings I've ever made so there is inevitably a good deal of head scratching when I haven't made provision for something, or I am simply trying to work out a "how to".

 

So anyway, the station buildings have progressed a bit:

 

Slate roof added:

 

 

 

Maybe overdid the slipped slate cliché? There is only one on the whole roof

 

Windows added...getting beyond the limits of my skill here.

 

 

 

The overall appearance with most of the guttering added plus the new staircase down to the central platform:

 

 

An odd view but one that might well work well once it's finished:

 

 

Cabling to the retaining wall behind the turntable:

 

 

And the cabling continues to the bridge and beyond:

 

 

 

It should be visible in the background that I have completed the backscene boards ready for the scene itself to be painted.

 

I should have a few more pics today as I completed the gutters and down pipes after taking these yesterday, plus there is more progress on the goods shed too.

 

Iain

[southern42]

I've done a fair bit but it feels as if I've done very little..... Lots of jobs that take time and I'm probably very slow at them too, and then there is the drying time between coats of paint etc.

 

I've also got to remember that these are the first buildings I've ever made so there is inevitably a good deal of head scratching when I haven't made provision for something, or I am simply trying to work out a "how to".

 

So anyway, the station buildings have progressed a bit:

 

Slate roof added:

 

image.jpg

 

image.jpg

 

Maybe overdid the slipped slate cliché? There is only one on the whole roof

 

Windows added...getting beyond the limits of my skill here.

 

image.jpg

 

image.jpg

 

..........................................

 

Iain

 

Hi Iain.

 

The loose slate might look less cliched if it was missing altogether.  One of the houses near us has a missing slate - as you point out on yours - just the one.  Quite normal.

Hope this helps.

 

Polly

[emt_911]

I've done a fair bit but it feels as if I've done very little..... Lots of jobs that take time and I'm probably very slow at them too, and then there is the drying time between coats of paint etc.

 

I've also got to remember that these are the first buildings I've ever made so there is inevitably a good deal of head scratching when I haven't made provision for something, or I am simply trying to work out a "how to".

 

So anyway, the station buildings have progressed a bit:

 

 

Windows added...getting beyond the limits of my skill here.

 

Iain

Quote edited to make reading easier.

 

Iain

 

There's nothing wrong with taking things slowly. Less chance of making a mistake and having to start again.

 

Part of the building process is thinking and head scratching. I believe that you can still call it part of the progress.

 

As for the windows, it doesn't look like you're getting beyond your limits. Thjey're better than I can produce at the moment.

 

Keep going as you are. The detailing is fantastic.

 

Duncan

[Jol Wilkinson]

Ian,

 

nice work again.

 

How have you gone about building the section of  staircase? I have to build a covered footbridge to link three platforms, spanning two pairs or tracks. The drawings in Jack Nelson's book gives details of the bridge and the stairs, but I haven't yet decided how to go about it. Probably built up from Evergreen strip and sheet.

 

Jol

[92220]

Polly - thanks and yes, probably. Once painted it's hardly noticeable so it's staying as it is, but for future buildings I think I'll only put in loose or missing slates sparingly.

 

Duncan - thanks, very kind. The experience has helped me to decide that for difficult and prominent windows like the signal boxes and the shed windows, I'll use etched windows from somewhere like Ambis, Brassmasters or Geoff Taylor, and design the building around them. They are too fiddly and too slow do do in Evergreen strip.

 

Jol - thanks again. Yes, plasticard and Evergreen strip, working from photos and trying to condense it a little to match the station and the scene. If I'm honest, and this is not self deprecation here, the footbridge staircase is a bit of a shambles (and it is not the first time!). It is basically a scenic break and largely hidden by the buildings on the mainline side. It is bisected diagonally by the backscene. So its construction had to provide all the strength on one side. I decided to make a basic former from 60 thou and then attach the rest of the staircase to the front of that. Then of course I found that adding the glazing and associated frames was about 10 times harder that way. But continued...... I painted the upper half of the former weathered black to enable there to look like there was a void behind the glazing. Added some steps at the bottom end out of more evergreen strip. Slaters planking added vertically for the sides and then a mix of 20 thou x 20 thou and slightly bigger (can't actually remember what) for the two thicknesses of framework.

 

Thanks everyone for the encouragement and help.

 

Iain

[92220]

I have painted the flat roof sections with a mix of talcum powder and enamel paint to try to get the bitumen look. Time will tell, once I've added a bit of colour variation and weathering. Once done, I noticed the main building and the rest were not aligned vertically.....a rogue lump of ballast to blame.

 

I am adding a few similar photos as an experiment to see how they come out. They've been taken with 3 different cameras and various settings. The floodlights are supposed to be installed this week.......I'll believe it when I see it given the electrician's previous broken promises! I need to practise a lot with photography

 

46256 heading the up Royal Scot (well, it might be.....needs lamps and headboard! And to renumber the mk1 brake as an M)

 

 

 

 

 

Iain

[flapland]

Its looking great Iain, I wish I had the same skills and also the space inside to do build such a model. One bedroom flat doesn't give much space for a detailed layout. Thats why I have a runaround type layout on the patio.

 

Funny the station is now a yoga centre for all of the yummy mummies of NW1 and NW3.

[bescotbeast]

Late to the thread but having worked my way through the pages and comments it's an excellent layout with some real work gone into creating the atmopshere of this well known location, regarding Camden No1 the original box was a LNW Type 5 design cabin on the steel framework which was fitted with a Webb powerframe, this box was then replaced in 1940 with the advent of the Blitz by a LMS Type 13 ARP design signal box with non-standard narrow front windows as seen here at Wigan Wallgate http://www.flickr.com/photos/ingythewingy/6733376467/in/photostream/ (ignore the BR replacement secondary glazing units but you can where the original windows would have been from the concrete frames)  http://www.flickr.com/photos/ingythewingy/6733379229/ to show the difference here is a standard Type 13 as you can see the box windows are the same height all the way around.

              Looking forward to seeing ever more progress.

                                        Simon

Hi Iain,
an unusual angle of the signal box, plus another shot of the goods depot -
interesting that the goods station wall isn't as uniform as we think, just to the left of the intercity tin can
best regards

CB-1956.jpg

top of bank 1968.jpg

Edited April 6, 2013 by bescotbeast

[bescotbeast]

 This is a LNW Type5 design. The name escapes me for the moment, once I get home from work I could dig out my SRS Signalling books.

                                                                Simon

LNWR Signal Box (type.................) CAMDEN ..........................

At the original up fast 'flyover' it appears a standard LNWR type

Edited April 6, 2013 by bescotbeast

[92220]

Thanks very much indeed Simon, and welcome to the thread. As you can see already I am indebted to many who have helped so far, and I appreciate your help. That view of the LMS type 13 box is very helpful as I have only so far got some sketchy part shots of no. 1 box.

 

Both the flickr links are to Wigan Wallgate. Would this be an example of standard height windows all the way round at Wellingborough Junction?

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ingythewingy/4517874047/

 

And the windows at Wellingborough look to be the original pattern?

 

Thanks again,

 

Iain

Edited April 6, 2013 by 92220

[bescotbeast]

Bu##er that's my fault for being too free and easy with the copy and paste, I was trying to link to this http://www.flickr.com/photos/ingythewingy/6169977699/ as it shows the stairs arrangement and the standard window pattern which I can see you've found with the Wellingborough picture, the extension on the Down end of Camden No1 appears to be a relay/battery room for the associated colour lights. I've a soft spot for the Type 13 as my first job on the railway was at Watery Lane Shunt Frame (Tipton)http://www.flickr.com/photos/50619197@N07/4863688894/ ,  a 50 lever example much reduced from it's heyday but still with a hint of it's former glory.

                                                                                    It's a pleasure to view your progress Iain

                                                                                                         Simon

Edited April 6, 2013 by bescotbeast