Bath Queen Square

[queensquare]

32 minutes ago, DLT said:

That's a nice looking pillar-drill Jerry, what make is it? 

I'm looking for a decent pillar-drill, there seem to be umpteen variations on the el-cheapo type, are they any good?

Dave.

PS  Sorry this is not the thread to ask such questions on....

 

Hi Dave, it's a Toyo and I really like it. I picked it up from the estate of a late modelling friend.

 

Jerry

[queensquare]

Not Bath but only a few miles south. Great to see and hear a bit of steam on the S&D in glorious autumn sunshine, even if it's only a short stretch toward Chilcompton. A really enjoyable afternoon.

 

Jerry

 

 

 

 

 

Edited to add the photos!

 

Edited September 17, 2022 by queensquare

[Caley Jim]

Did that saddle tank originally work at the BMC (formerly Austin) car plant at Longbridge?

 

Jim

[65179]

2 minutes ago, Caley Jim said:

Did that saddle tank originally work at the BMC (formerly Austin) car plant at Longbridge?

 

Jim

 

Yes: https://sdjr.co.uk/news/view/visiting-steam-loco-at-midsomer-norton

 

Simon

[Chris Higgs]

5 hours ago, queensquare said:

Not Bath but only a few miles south. Great to see and hear a bit of steam on the S&D in glorious autumn sunshine, even if it's only a short stretch toward Chilcompton. A really enjoyable afternoon.

 

Jerry

 

 

 

 

 

Edited to add the photos!

 

 

GWR bufferstops on the S&D?

 

[queensquare]

27 minutes ago, Chris Higgs said:

 

GWR bufferstops on the S&D?

 

Only a man who has drawn many a buffer stop would spot that!
There are those who argue it was the Western Region that brought an end to the line…

 

Jerry

[PaulRhB]

On 03/09/2022 at 13:21, queensquare said:

so I can keep it tidy

Nope, sorry, lost me there . . 

[queensquare]

4 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

Nope, sorry, lost me there . . 

Well a couple of weeks at the new bench and so far, so good. The trick is putting things away - just got to keep it up!

 

Jerry

 

 

Edited September 18, 2022 by queensquare

[nick_bastable]

 is Marmite part of the dark arts of 2mm  ( no surprise I fail  🙄)

[queensquare]

4 hours ago, nick_bastable said:

 is Marmite part of the dark arts of 2mm  ( no surprise I fail  🙄)

 

Marmite, one of life essentials..... and such a useful jar!

 

Jerry

[queensquare]

For the last few evenings I’ve been fiddling with the turntable for Bath. The basis are the Cowan Sheldon 50’ etch girders by Jim Watt, soldered to a pcb  deck shaped to represent the 42’ table that Bath actually had until it was replaced in 1935 by a 60’ job.

With the well having to straddle both the upper and lower levels of the shed yard I opted to make the walls from layers of 20thou plastic using a piece of 4” down pipe as a mould. 
I was sceptical as to whether this laminated approach would work but all seems well (no pun intended!) so with the basic components now put together I can move on to making it work and getting it to start/stop/line up reliably each time which I suspect is where the real fun will start.

One decision I’m very pleased I made is to go with an over scale 50’ rather than 42’ deck - my 2P is a tight fit thanks to the overscale loco/tender gap! No wonder 4-4-0s with a Dealey tender couldnt fit on the prototype.

 

Jerry

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2022 by queensquare

[richard i]

You don’t realise how big a project this is until shots like this.

fantastic.

richard 

[Izzy]

Some impressive point work there, tandem, s/s, s/s, d/s, tandem. I know you’ve posted a shot before but seeing it in position is nice. 
 

Bob

[Rowsley17D]

Nice work on the TT, Jerry. I think you're DCC? My TT is a London Road Models with their motor drive which is connected to a cheap decoder. On speed step 1 it's possible to line up the tracks by eye although, mine is much nearer to the edge of the baseboard.

[bécasse]

There is a very easy way of making it work so that it always stops perfectly if you are prepared to accept the restriction that the table can only turn through 180° and not through the full 360°. That always allows you to turn a loco, of course, by turning alternatively clockwise and anticlockwise, and you ensure the correct stopping point by putting in physical stops, preferably ones with fine adjustment incorporated. It should be possible to set up an electrical circuit, using either relays (which is how I did it half-a-century ago) or electronics, which enable you to start the turn by pressing a single button with the realigned table stopping automatically (an emergency "stop" switch can be a useful addition for when you have guest operators).

 

This solution doesn't work if you have multiple outlet tracks but the prototype view you posted suggests that that isn't the case here.

Edited September 25, 2022 by bécasse

[Izzy]

I initially tried using a DCC decoder to power the level crossing I have produced, the advantage being the speed could be quite easily set and ‘ flatlined’ at a maximum amount via speed tabling. The power circuit which John Watson used that Nigel Cliffe wrote about which I also ‘pinched’, using micro switches at each limit with diodes allowing reversal/ control just via a SPST would I think go nicely with it in conjunction with limit stops. I guess Jerry has most probably already got a few ideas though.
 

Bob

[queensquare]

Many thanks to everyone who has said kind things or offered advice, I’ve taken it all in and will report back on what works best although I will say that the notion that there is a very easy way to ensure it works perfectly each time, even allowing for the 180 degree compromise, is for the birds. There are so many variables in the building and setting up of a turntable that, from past experience, they are ticklish little blighters.

 

I have a beautifully smooth and quiet 12v 2rpm motor/gearbox which will provide the grunt. Powered by a 9v wall wart it does a full revolution in about 45 seconds which I’m happy with. I’m keen for the table to be capable of doing a full 360, always in the same direction because that’s what the prototype did. I will report back on whether I’m successful or not. 
For now, I attach a picture of the underside of the baseboard - the split level nature of the site and proximity of nearby point mechanisms (eventually!), are the reason for the odd shaped, restricted footprint. The motor/gearbox is simply resting in place. It will eventually be bolted to the bridge and couple to the main shaft with a specially turned collar which will also support an indexing disc - also just resting in place. Current thinking on indexing is (unsurprisingly!) how John Greenwood has done the five turntables on his system which is via microswitches and notches a la Peter Denny.The deck is not fixed to the shaft in any way, it simply sits snuggly over a block which transfers the movement. Height is maintained by blocks running on the well rail which also provide pickup. Supporting the table at the ends rather than the central spindle provides a good, firm base for the deck with no rock and is what the prototype does for the same reason.

 

Jerry

 

[bécasse]

All I can say Jerry is that I speak from experience, admittedly 4mm scale rather than 2mm, but the layout was P4 so it had to stop precisely at the right place time after time after time. Not only did it do so but it worked throughout five day, 10 ½ hours a day, exhibitions, and that is a severe test for anything.

 

I have seen your original colliery 2FS S&D layout in the flesh, albeit with madame in charge, and I look at many of your photos in envy. You are clearly a very competent modeller and, if I can get a turntable to work perfectly, albeit in a more limited fashion than the prototype, you certainly can.

[Caley Jim]

The way I motorised my turntable, albeit to do the 180º turn and back, was described in the 2MM Magazine for Dec/Jan 2013.

 

Jim

[queensquare]

1 hour ago, bécasse said:

All I can say Jerry is that I speak from experience, admittedly 4mm scale rather than 2mm, but the layout was P4 so it had to stop precisely at the right place time after time after time. Not only did it do so but it worked throughout five day, 10 ½ hours a day, exhibitions, and that is a severe test for anything.

 

I have seen your original colliery 2FS S&D layout in the flesh, albeit with madame in charge, and I look at many of your photos in envy. You are clearly a very competent modeller and, if I can get a turntable to work perfectly, albeit in a more limited fashion than the prototype, you certainly can.

 

Im confident I can get it to work, its the notion its very easy I disagree with,

 

Jerry

[queensquare]

6 hours ago, Caley Jim said:

The way I motorised my turntable, albeit to do the 180º turn and back, was described in the 2MM Magazine for Dec/Jan 2013.

 

Jim

 

Thanks Jim, I shall re-read that,

 

Jerry

 

Edited to say I’ve just re-read it, very useful. If I can’t get my indexing disc to work I may try your method with an arm on the central spindle

Edited September 25, 2022 by queensquare

[bécasse]

2 hours ago, queensquare said:

 

Im confident I can get it to work, its the notion its very easy I disagree with,

Compared with building and finishing the pair of beauties below, it is very easy provided that you confine the turn to 180°. If you want a 360° turn it becomes more difficult and if there were more than one exit road either side it would become hugely more difficult (indeed, I would probably be looking for how I could fudge it in 2FS).

 

To me the most difficult bit of building a turntable is getting the pit and table right, and in exactly the right place, and you seem to have done that. The one I built half-a-century ago had a planked deck and that did prove more difficult because of the need to get both deck and "pit" precisely circular and precisely aligned using only the hand tools available to me at the time.

 

[queensquare]

This evening I temporarily screwed a couple of  bits of ply to the t/t so that I could lay some short stubs of track to check alignment and set everything up on the bench. I’m pleased to say it all looks good and I can roll a light wagon backwards and forward over the table without problem. This is important as the S&D coal stage was, rather unusually, located on the far side of the table so I will need to be able push loaded wagons across it.

The underside view shows the skids at the ends which support the deck as well as providing pickup. The central pocket which locates over the corresponding pcb block on the spindle can also be seen - I added the extra locating pin after re-reading Jim Watt’s article in the 2mm mag. 

 

Jerry
 

 

[Dave John]

It all looks very good.

 

One comment if I may, I have used those motor/gearboxes for a few projects and they give a huge unstoppable torque. ( I use one to open and close a set of vertical blinds 8  feet wide by 10 high in the railway room ) 

 

So I'd suggest some sort of slip coupling or sheer pin to couple it to the tt. Just in case. 

[queensquare]

8 hours ago, Dave John said:

It all looks very good.

 

One comment if I may, I have used those motor/gearboxes for a few projects and they give a huge unstoppable torque. ( I use one to open and close a set of vertical blinds 8  feet wide by 10 high in the railway room ) 

 

So I'd suggest some sort of slip coupling or sheer pin to couple it to the tt. Just in case. 

 

Thanks Dave. I knew they had incredible torque but a set of 8'x10' blinds is impressive! I had thought about some sort of clutch but in the end dismissed it because of the potential to introduce slop/backlash into the drive which would hinder accurate, consistant allignment. The system I intend to use for indexing doesnt involve fixed stops which means  that if the microswitch should fail the worst that can happen is the table would just keep going round in circles a bit like Garsdale in a strong wind! With fixed stops I suspect this motor/gearbox would just keep going until something gave way - and it wouldnt be the motor!

 

Jerry