Ellerby - 4mm/OO gauge - All photos working, hotlinked.

[Barclay]

Great to see you back at the workbench. Although I've been reading your posts for a couple of years I spent some of the quiet week leading up to Christmas going through the whole thread - a superb piece of work. 

[Jamiel]

 

Thanks for the comments, Geoff.

I did start the class 124 by cutting up Replica Railways MK1 coach bodies, but when I hears of the Worsley Works side and ends etches, I changed to that as it makes the detailing of the sides much easier. You project sounds really interesting and like it will be quite challenging too.

 

I now find making brass chassis easier to work with having done a few now, I'll probably double that number when I finish this 6 car unit.

 

Thanks also to Barclay, I hope it was an interesting read. The one big problem I have with the layout, is that I make detailed small pieces for a big layout that currently doesn’t have a home. I always admire those who can get on and have a full working layout, and not just bits, plans and hopes.

 

Thanks for all the likes too.

 

Still as there is no place to erect the shed when I am currently living, small details are my best option, so here are the latest developments.

 

Here is the body sat on the chassis with the bogies in place.

 

I have started detailing the underframe, this is a fun part of the build, although I am aware that whatever I do on this unit will have to be done on a further 3 for the underframe.

 

The pipes down the sides have been added and the fuel tanks (I think) from brass wire and the battery box parts from the Worsley Works etch, used inside out. Strips and tubing added. The battery boxes will from the Comet white metal castings, and possible some resin copies of those.

 

A mixture of cut up resin casts taken from DMU detailing frets (Heljan I think), brass bits, sheet and sprue and the odd white metal parts. The resin parts are being glued using Evostick, but with brass wire threaded through most to anchor then better. I did think of using Araldite/epoxy, but with the wires behind I think they will stick OK.

 

 

 

I am trying to be as accurate to the photos as I can be, so rather than putting on sets of boxes that are fairly similar, I am trying to reproduce the underframe details a bit closer than I did on the Class 120 build. Hard to find really good photos where you can see the underframes side on, so there is still a bit of guesswork, and still a bit of nearest moulding used.
 

More soon.

Jamie

Edited January 5, 2022 by Jamiel

[Jamiel]

A little more work on the underframe. My best guess, and some improvisation for what is there. I have collaged together the best shots I have of the underframe, but there are still some bits that are hard to judge.

 

I also found that I have some extended buffers, so unsoldered the retracted ones and put on the longer one. They look much better, but it did involve resoldering a few of the pipes as well.

 

 

More soon I hope.

 

Jamie

[Jamiel]

Continuing theunderframe work, the other side now.

 

 

Off to watch the NFL American Footaball playoffs.

Jamie

 

 

 

 

[Jamiel]

The underframe detailing is there (maybe?).

 

Body sat on.

 

 

Retracted buffers at this end, waiting for the exhausts, handles and other end detailing.

 

 

 

Jamie

[lezz01]

Very nice Jamie.

Regards Lez.

[Jamiel]

More underframes and bogies under way.

I also discovered from the Facebook Class 123 & 124 Group, that one piece of underframe detail I have done is from a Class 123, not 124, but will not be too hard to replace.

 

Jamie

[Jamiel]

A bit of resin casting today as I needed a few more Smiths Heaters for the underframe, and I coast of a few other useful bits at the time. General underframe parts, house doors (I always seem to be low on those), people and bins – some of these already in their boxes.

My resin (polyol P23) is somewhat out of date, August 2020, but it still casts fairly well. Flat surfaces are a little less than perfect, and it isn’t as crisp as fresh resin to cut once dried.

 

I cut down one of the heaters to fit the space where I had put the Class 123 detail, and added some pipes and details in brass to follow the prototype and mask the shortening on the heater. Just to the left of the fuel tank at the right of the details here.

 

I have also spotted that I need two horns at the front, they are mounted symmetrically under the buffer beam, easy to add.

 

I am doing this all again for the underframe for the other driving unit, so more of the same to come.

 

Jamie

[Jamiel]

Next chassis and underframe mostly done. Second one at the bottom in the first photo. Not 100% identical, a few slight differences, some slight improvement, some not quite as good as the first, but both are within my tolerances for accuracy (too tolerant some might say).

 

 

 

Buffer beams, now with two horns on each.

 

 

 

On the work bench.

 

 

 

The coach body for the second driving unit next. I am out of resin for casting and have realised the one full cast I use most is the Smith Heater, which I only have one mould of, so for the other units I will need two for each (I think they are on all the units, including the Buffet car).

Still not sure of how this will be powered, I have the motor bogie, but that will need a new drive shaft to take it to scale 8’6” wheelbase, but for a six car mostly metal bodied set I feel that the power of a Replica power chassis would be the best option. Unfortunately, the 64ft versions re sold out, so I will have to email them as see if another run is planned. Failing that I think I will have to have a good look at some of Michael Edge’s work, his power for bogie locomotives is amazing, but he is an amazing modeller.

 

Still a bit of time before I have to sort that out.
 

More soon.

Jamie

[delticman]

Lovely work Jamie those underframe details are truly wonderful, can I ask where you got the jumper cable castings on the buffer beams of the 124, they look like the old MJT castings which I have now run out of but seem sadly unavailable now.

Geoff

[Jamiel]

Hi Geoff
 

Thanks for the feedback.

The jumper cables are from Craftsman DMU detailing kits, sadly no longer available. They are a little oversize, but as they can be soldered, I prefer to use them.

If you can work with plastic, Heljan DMU spares, which I think you can get from PetersSpares are good, if anything maybe a little small. They are plastic though, which is the main reason I prefer they Craftsman ones.

I am on to bodysides for the other driving unit.

I have posted elsewhere, but I don’t know where I got this etch from, it has been suggested that it is PC Models ‘BR door handles’. I can use the MJT ones as well, but I like this etch a lot.

 

I am not able to find grab handles to fit the DMU size, but I also find the bent over etched a bit fragile. I have tried a new method, bending wire on a Bill Bedford ‘Handrail Bending Jig’ (something I would suggest every modeller should buy), seen at the top of the first photo. The wire has been filed flat to give a better feel, might need a bit more.

 

 

They are a little thick, but close up look a little clumsy, maybe a bit more filing and also only colouring the flat surface and let the base fit with the green of the body. They are much less fragile though and are the right size. I’ll how they look from a distance when the body is finshed.

 

As it is only wire, I am happy to discard attempts that don’t quite bend in the right place, or at least store them for other uses.

 

I drilled through holes for wire for the door bumpers, filed flat as well.

I like the Worsley etches and am thankful that I am not ‘cutting and shutting’ every coach body.

 

Jamie

 

 

Edited February 7, 2022 by Jamiel

[Jamiel]

More of the same, the other driving unit has reached the same stage. Both looking a little dusty as I have been filing and sanding the cab to the side joins.

 

 

Next to do the non drive ends with the exhausts, grab rails and steps. I also need to do a little detailing to the front bogies, cab steps and speedometer with cable. A bit of tidy to the rain gutter at the front end. I will probably add the interior doors with the ends to the compartments, as that will strengthen it all. LEDs in the roofs.

 

Then masking the fronts, LEDs and cab interior details before painting, undercoat and green. I will then add the windscreen wipers and cab windows, before fitting the cab roofs and doing whatever filling is needed.

 

I will leave the roof detailing and final painting until after fitting the cab roofs as I suspect some filling and filling will be needed.
 

I need to find my heavy bar that I cut the weighting sections from as well.
 

After that the windows, curtains, seating, driver and passengers and finally transfers and weathering.
 

I am also going to ty and cut a brass outer for the headcode boxes. I can’t find one suitable, I thought Extreme Etchings might have one (Class 47?), but I can’t see one on the website. The surrounds for the wipers can be cut/filed down as an experiment. If that doesn’t work fine plastic, but that would tend to warp when stuck in place. I will experiment, but am also up for suggestions.
 

I am fairly happy how it is going. Getting plastic moulded cab ends to sit flush to brass sides and stay stuck isn’t the easiest thing, but with a little filling it seems OK.

The just the 4 more cars, and working out how it will be powered, especially if Replica have sold out of their powered chassis.
 

Jamie

[Jamiel]

Starting to paint the unts, first undercoat, Phoenix self-etch grey primer. I masked off the cabs which are already painted.

 

 

 

A first light coat of Phoenix DMY Green (Dull).

 

 

The ends where I have removed a lot of details from the Replica bodies are not looking good. A bit late to go back and use the metal ends from Worsley works on these now, and also hard to get in there to sand it flat, which is why they look as they do. I may see if I can patch over with 0.10mm plasticard, maybe some filler, or maybe weathering around the exhausts might help cover this up.

 

Not the most visible place on the units so I may have to just try and disguise it as best I can.

 

Underframes with a first pass of Humbrol Matt 32, dark grey, nest a light black. Very pleased how the underframes are looking.

 

 

 

I had just started my second pass of green on the bodies, but I was getting bubble back in the airbrush, so I took off the nozzle to clean it, and dropped it. Outdoors by the garage, it lost, finding a 1mm nozzle in gritty driveway is not going to happen. The be fair the nozzle is likely to be the cause of the bubble back, so a new one was needed, but further painting will have to waiting until I can buy one.

I miss my shed, an indoor workbench is far better than outside, you can find things you drop, and also dust cannot blow onto your primer. I did have to sand down the promer for tiny specs.
 

Lots of marking to do at work as well, so progress is note expected to move much in the next couple of weeks anyway.
 

Jamie

 

 

 

[Jamiel]

Great to have RMweb back, also glad I hotlinked all my photos to my website/server.

The downside is if my website goes down, then all my photos go too. Not likely to happen unless it gets too expensive to continue.

No modelling during the RMweb downtime, ordering a new nozzle for the airbrush and too much marking to do for my students.

 

Might get a wagon kit out if I get desperate though.

Jamie

Edited April 1, 2022 by Jamiel

[Jamiel]

I’ve bashed out a Cambrian Five Plank LMS wagon for the ballast train. Not my finest bit of modelling, but at least it was relaxing to do.

Bottom planks on the doors added as bowed out as they usually were, I will also saw down the join to the doors t make them look a bit less moulded. Files 0.20mm plasticard has worked OK, 0.10mm has bowed with the Mek, but will probably be OK when painted.

Cross bars and hangers added underneath, other than that pretty much as it came.

I think when it is painted it will look OK provided there isn’t too much scrutiny to it. It can site behind the Grampus wagons.

I will also need to add weight, different options, seems a pity to waste liquid lead when there is space for a bar of metal to be glued underneath. It would be nice to have some rubbish inside by still see the planks. I’ll also have to hide the inside where the bowed planks should be.

 

 

 

 

I have also ordered anew nozzle for my airbrush so I hope to be able to resume the Transpennine shortly.
 

I also want to return to the arcade of shop which has been untouched since the move 18 months ago. I also have a brass kit of a Siphon to do, and sometime I will have to go and visit someone with experience of building locos to finish and fettle my Comet Black 5 and test tun the Aspinall Class 23 0-6-0.

Lots to do and feeling a bit more like modelling again now teaching is over for the year, just the mass of marking ahead in the next two months, but marking and then breaks will work well I hope.

Jamie

[41516]

What Diagram wagon are you trying to represent Jamie?   The Cambrian kit is correct for the D1666 out of the packet, with flat doors (no angled 'barrow/sack truck' plank). 

 

D1895 wagons shares much of the bodywork style with the D1666, and has sack truck doors, but also has a 10ft wheelbase, rather than 9ft of the D1666s.

[Jamiel]

Hi 41516

I did a search for LMS 5 plank wagons, and found a couple of references, but it is more than likely that they do not match the kit.

 

This is my principal reference, but I do not know which diagram it is.

 

http://www.srpsmuseum.org.uk/10068.htm

 

The Bluebell also has a couple of similar wagons for reference.
https://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pics/dm411245.html

 

I do want the wagon to look like it is in its last days, so the neatness of the sides doesn’t really fit for my period. I may have to carve in a bit more plank damage as well as painting different planks.

 

I also realise that I haven’t fitted door bangers, the above examples have two each side, and also a cross bar across the wheel W’s on some wagons.

 

I have just had a look at Paul Bartlett’s page for LMS wagons, and although a later time, and wear, I see what you mean about diag 1666. I suspect I am looking more at lot 1371 or 1345 judging by those images.

 

I am presuming that these wagons went through a bit of rebuilding over the years, as well as wear and tear.

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsopen

 

DM417638 ZGO may be a good one to emulate.

 

I am presuming that these wagons went through a bit of rebuilding over the years, as well as wear and tear.

 

Any thoughts?

Jamie

Edited April 15, 2022 by Jamiel

[41516]

The big difference between the kit and your references is that the wagons you have listed are all later wagons on steel underframes and 10ft wb rather than wooden and 9ft.  It sounds like you are trying to apply details from later steel framed diagrams to the earlier D1666 and ending up with something between the two, possible but unlikely. A scruffy DM prefixed wagon relegated to departmental work will probably pass by 95% of people without questioning the doors.

 

If you do want to follow more closely what you have referenced, the old Airfix (now Hornby) 5 plank body is a pretty good fit for LMS D1892/D2094s.  Here's an in-progress one with a PA16  Parkside chassis. Note the difference at the bottom of the two, the D1892 having exposed floorboard ends while the D1666 has a deeper curb rail covering part of the solebar and floorboards, typical of wooden framed wagons. There's also changes in door framing, door width & strapping between the two.

 

 

The body is a little bit chunky in detail nowdays, but they scrub up well. In Blue Peter style, here's one I did earlier (I think the brake pipe has come adrift...)

 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Jamiel said:

This is my principal reference, but I do not know which diagram it is.

http://www.srpsmuseum.org.uk/10068.htm

 

Diagram 2094, 10ft wb and steel underframe, built 1943/46, largely identical to the previous D1892 but with thinner width planks

 

2 hours ago, Jamiel said:

https://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pics/dm411245.html

D1892

 

2 hours ago, Jamiel said:

I suspect I am looking more at lot 1371 or 1345 judging by those images.

 

D2094 again for lot 1371 and 1345

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 15, 2022 by 41516
spelling

[Jamiel]

Hi 41516

Thanks for that information, and really lovely builds.

It looks like the wagon is going to be for those who don’t look too closely.

It has been bashed about at bit, and a few details added, door bangers made from brass offcuts. I have straightened the buffers after seeing the photos with a bit of Mek, I knocked one off when roughing it up. I don’t like the Cambrian buffers, but this wagon is definitely not worth metal buffers.

It will need sanding and a bit more work before painting. I may have taken the edge of the top planks too far back, so may need to add back a little strip.

It looks pretty rough at the moment. I did find when I had finished the kit as intended that it just didn’t look right for a wagon in the period, a new 5 plank wouldn’t be at the back of a ballast train in the 60s I suspect.
 

 

 

 

 

I was looking at Rumney models wagon kits and parts and I think if I make wagons that are more than just making up numbers on the layout, I may use their kits. I have found making a plastic kit much less satisfying that working with brass as a much of my recent work has mostly been.

I am also far better at making DMUs and Buildings than other things.

Jamie

[Jamiel]

Many thanks to 41516, who sent me some details on the wagon. It is still a bit of a mishmash, but is now a bit closer to something that might fit the layout.

Top edge built back up and steel strips added, cross braces underframe removed.

It still looks a bit rough in closeup, but just a little more sanding and I think it will be ready for painting.

 

 

 

 

 

Jamie

[Jamiel]

First couple of passes of paint. I am missing the airbrush, hopefully the nozzle will arrive tomorrow, I would like to give it an all over light pass with a mix of black and dark brown both the pull the colours together and also to take the slight gloss off painting so far. I might also give it a pass with matt varnish.

Still need a few more passes. I may sand the interior, it is too messy now, and will also add some ballast to make it grainy. It will also need a dry brushing, and obviously a few transfers.

I had to drill through one of the buffer ends and thread some brass wire in to hold it as it kept falling off when white spirit got near it.

 

 

 

 

 

Jamie

[lezz01]

That's one of the tattiest bit's of rolling stock I've ever seen Jamie. Well done that man!

Regards Lez.

[Jamiel]

Not quite enough light to get decent photos, but here are some anyway. A couple more layers of paint, washes of black, brown and white, and also some dry-brushing. I have sanded and painted the inside a bit more. The sanding helps it a lot.

Transfers have been added and then painted back. I did try sanding those, but the one I tried just came straight off, so more Pledge to set them.

 

 

 

 

One of the bearings for the wheels is a little off centre, so I will prise it out and reset it so the wheel is straight. When the airbrush nozzle arrives,  may also give it a very slight dusting with a black and brown mix.

Nearly done, but it will also need some weight underneath which I think I will try and find some steel strip to go there.

[lezz01]

Instead of sanding the overpainted transfers try using a little T Cut on a cotton bud Jamie.

Regards Lez. 

[Jamiel]

At the risk of being repetitive, more photos of the wagon, in sunlight.

 

I ran a scalpel over the transfers, I was worried a cotton but would also just lift the sections they are cut from. A tiny bit of dry brushing and a little more sanding.

You cannot see it but, I took out the bearing that was making the wheels uneven, drilled the hole wider, then replaced the bearing with a sliver of plasticard to level it out, which has worked fine.

 

 

 

I’m not sure it needs a pass with the airbrush, and my nozzle has not arrived yet. The one thing still needed is to add a weight to the underside when I dig out my stock of metal bits.

 

Looking in the drawers there are a lot pf Parkside, and a few Dapol/Airfix wagon kits waiting to be done, but I think another chassis for a Transpennine is the best thing to tackle next.

MOT for the car tomorrow, so I will have an idea of how much money I have or otherwise after that for projects this month.

Edited May 15, 2022 by Jamiel