Kirkby Luneside (Original): End of the line....

[eldavo]

Maybe a dumb question but why would the ballast at the edges be finer? From the pic posted earlier it all looks the same to me.

 

Cheers

Dave (confused of Winchester)

[robmcg]

I agree, the ballast at the sides would be similar to that around and under the track.

 

Confused of Surbiton.

 

edit; I think a different colour/texture would look good and reduce the effect of excessive width in the cess.

Edited July 20, 2013 by robmcg

[Alister_G]

Hi Jeff,

 

The viaduct is looking great, and thanks for the step-by-step guide to your ballasting, very useful.

 

I've hit a bit of a hiatus with modelling, and I think I'll be turning my attention to track laying, wiring and ballasting myself.

[Physicsman]

Maybe a dumb question but why would the ballast at the edges be finer? From the pic posted earlier it all looks the same to me.

 

Cheers

Dave (confused of Winchester)

 

I agree, the ballast at the sides would be similar to that around and under the track.

 

Confused of Surbiton.

 

edit; I think a different colour/texture would look good and reduce the effect of excessive width in the cess.

 

Right lads - this is a learning process for me, too.

 

Have a look at the photo in this link. It seems to show that Andy's supposition of finer ballast towards the edge is correct:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/northyorkshire/content/images/2007/07/26/ribblehead_walk_1_gallery_470x353.jpg

 

If I can grind down some ballast I'll add it to the scene. If not, I'll use the same stuff and differentiate it with a coloured wash. 

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Hi Jeff,

 

The viaduct is looking great, and thanks for the step-by-step guide to your ballasting, very useful.

 

I've hit a bit of a hiatus with modelling, and I think I'll be turning my attention to track laying, wiring and ballasting myself.

 

Cheers Al. I only decided to do the viaduct as I was getting tired of being stuck in the other corner! I certainly recommend the fine ballast - and the PVA "method" hails from Captain Kernow and Gordon S - both esteemed members of this Forum.

 

I'm VERY pleased - and a bit surprised - at how well it's worked. I now have to ballast some dummy track and trial some acrylic washes for weathering. Anything that comes out half-decent, I'll show on here!

 

Jeff

[Andrew P]

Hi Jeff, I have just caught a look at the Viaduct Ballasting and it must rate as one of the neatest I have seen.

 

Re the outer edges I cant see why they would transport a different size ballast up onto the Viaduct just for the outer edges.

 

Bodgit

 

EDIT = BUT I may be wrong,

Edited July 20, 2013 by Andrew P

[Andrew P]

Hi Jeff, I have just caught a look at the Viaduct Ballasting and it must rate as one of the neatest I have seen.

 

Re the outer edges I cant see why they would transport a different size ballast up onto the Viaduct just for the outer edges.

 

Bodgit

 

EDIT = BUT I may be wrong,

Jeff, thanks for ticking AGREE to the above, BUT was to the last bit about me being wrong? hahaaaa

 

Bodgit

[Physicsman]

Hi Jeff, I have just caught a look at the Viaduct Ballasting and it must rate as one of the neatest I have seen.

 

Re the outer edges I cant see why they would transport a different size ballast up onto the Viaduct just for the outer edges.

 

Bodgit

 

EDIT = BUT I may be wrong,

 

Yes, I agree with that logic. I've found a friend who has a mortar and pestle, so I'll have a go at grinding some anyway. In the meantime I'll ballast the dummy track - in the morning.... Looking at that last photo link, the cess area looks cleaner than the track, so even if I use the same size ballast I can differentiate the track/cess ballast via a coloured wash.

 

To be honest, I think it's getting a bit too detailed to worry about. I do need to fit the "walkways" along the inside base of the parapets. Rob suggested card - I think I'll use 20thou plastikard and paint it.

 

Jeff

 

Edit: Agree with the bold bit!

Edited July 20, 2013 by Physicsman

[The Stationmaster]

Maybe a dumb question but why would the ballast at the edges be finer? From the pic posted earlier it all looks the same to me.

 

Cheers

Dave (confused of Winchester)

No (and yes). To take that mugwumping a bit further the ballast will be consistent from base of shoulder at one cess to base of shoulder at the other cess except in some cases where there is wider interval, such as a ten foot, between the running lines.  The reason for this is simple - you need a consistent ballast size to effectively hold the track in place and support it.  And of course only one size of ballast is dropped in the first place.

 

But the cess - where it is looked after (an old fashioned idea it would seem) will be finer material - it has to be as it is meant as a walking surface and ordinary track ballast cuts shoes to pieces remarkably quickly (or maybe I bought the wrong kind of shoes?).  So the cess material - where it is done properly - is finer.

 

Now on a ballasted viaduct there is an extra needed to ensure that the track won't shift towards the walls - and only ballast can hold it in place, fine material is useless for that purpose on lines where speeds are quite high - and it all comes out of the same wagon.

Edited July 20, 2013 by The Stationmaster

[Physicsman]

No (and yes). To take that mugwumping a bit further the ballast will be consistent from base of shoulder at one cess to base of shoulder at the other cess except in some cases where there is wider interval, such as a ten foot, between the running lines.  The reason for this is simple - you need a consistent ballast size to effectively hold the track in place and support it.  And of course only one size of ballast is dropped in the first place.

 

But the cess - where it is looked after (an old fashioned idea it would seem) will be finer material - it has to be as it is meant as a walking surface and ordinary track ballast cuts shoes to pieces remarkably quickly (or maybe I bought the wrong kind of shoes?).  So the cess material - where it is done properly - is finer.

 

Now on a ballasted viaduct there is an extra needed to ensure that the track won't shift towards the walls - and only ballast can hold it in place, fine material is useless for that purpose on lines where speeds are quite high - and it all comes out of the same wagon.

 

So Mike - are you saying I can get away with the same particle size across the viaduct width - and so I don't need to try and grind the ballast to "powder"?

 

Jeff

[robmcg]

The crew of this train leaving for Leeds over the S&C would probably not want the track bed on the viaducts to be in any way compromised by inadequate foundations.

 

Edited July 21, 2013 by robmcg

[gordon s]

Cheers Al. I only decided to do the viaduct as I was getting tired of being stuck in the other corner! I certainly recommend the fine ballast - and the PVA "method" hails from Captain Kernow and Gordon S - both esteemed members of this Forum.

 

I'm VERY pleased - and a bit surprised - at how well it's worked. I now have to ballast some dummy track and trial some acrylic washes for weathering. Anything that comes out half-decent, I'll show on here!

 

Jeff

 

Still lurking here, Jeff, so congratulations on some very good ballasting.  When CK first wrote to me about painting PVA between each sleeper with a fine paintbrush, I thought he was having a laugh, but personally I found it the best way to ballast track by a huge margin.  Yes, it does take a while at the beginning, but as the time goes by you find your own preferred method and the overall the process is no longer than other techniques as there is little or no rework involved at all and the PVA sets quickly so you are not waiting for ages for it to go off.

 

I have found some difficulty in ballasting pointwork as there are so many small nooks and crannies in a turnout and invariably I end up with either gaps in the ballasting or the works gummed up, so here I solder droppers on first, completely spray the track with primer and track colour and then set it into the PVA and immediately sprinkle on the ballast and hoover up the excess.  This gives a really clean finish and everything works, although I accept it does mean the turnouts appear to be floating on the ballast rather than set into it.  This is a small price to pay versus having to completely rebuilt ruined pointwork.  I've even worked out a neat solution for dealing with the tie bars after years of cussing and swearing, which effectively hides the hole in the board and allows ballasting underneath the tie bar.  I'll post some details if it will help.

 

[Physicsman]

Thanks Gordon. I've been looking for an effective way to start the ballasting - I remember reading Larry's method (sit the track onto a bed of PVA initially and ballast at that point), and "yours" (around November time?). Along with the Copydex method used by Jason (Sandside), it gave me a lot to think about - and I certainly wasn't going to use the old dropper method.

 

As you say, experience teaches you a lot of things. The ballasting has been carried out on the most awkward parts of the layout, so hopefully the rest (when I get round to it) may be easier!

 

As my pointwork is already fixed in place I can't follow your technique - so I'll just have to do it the long way, tedious though that may be.

 

I've pre-sprayed the track and "rusted" the rail sides that are visible. Have you done any further weathering to your ballasted track?

 

I can appreciate why you thought Ian (CK) was having a laugh. Initially it seems like you are counting the grains of sand on a beach. But things speed up as the technique improves. I miss the odd patch and there are little bits of ballast I need to clean off. All in good time!

 

Jeff

Edited July 21, 2013 by Physicsman

[Physicsman]

Morning Rob - evening in NZ.

 

Hope you've recovered from your skin discomfort! I guess you took your mind off things with the lovely image of the Royal Scot - the latest addition to your loco collection. She looks in pristine condition - or is it a TMC light weathering job?

 

Not quite in the state that Bodgit has distressed that WD in the Lounge! What a good job he made of it!

 

Jeff

[gordon s]

I can appreciate why you thought Ian (CK) was having a laugh. 

 

Jeff

 

I thought his name was Tim.  Maybe I've been wrong all these years....:-)

[Andrew P]

Still lurking here, Jeff, so congratulations on some very good ballasting.  When CK first wrote to me about painting PVA between each sleeper with a fine paintbrush, I thought he was having a laugh, but personally I found it the best way to ballast track by a huge margin.  Yes, it does take a while at the beginning, but as the time goes by you find your own preferred method and the overall the process is no longer than other techniques as there is little or no rework involved at all and the PVA sets quickly so you are not waiting for ages for it to go off.

 

I have found some difficulty in ballasting pointwork as there are so many small nooks and crannies in a turnout and invariably I end up with either gaps in the ballasting or the works gummed up, so here I solder droppers on first, completely spray the track with primer and track colour and then set it into the PVA and immediately sprinkle on the ballast and hoover up the excess.  This gives a really clean finish and everything works, although I accept it does mean the turnouts appear to be floating on the ballast rather than set into it.  This is a small price to pay versus having to completely rebuilt ruined pointwork.  I've even worked out a neat solution for dealing with the tie bars after years of cussing and swearing, which effectively hides the hole in the board and allows ballasting underneath the tie bar.  I'll post some details if it will help.

 

DSC_1195.jpg

Thanks for this posting Gordon, the points was the one area that worried me and your method is one that I had thought of but was unsure if it would work.

 

Bodgit

[Physicsman]

I thought his name was Tim.  Maybe I've been wrong all these years....:-)

 

Quite right Gordon. How Tim Maddocks became "Ian", I don't know!!!

 

Jeff

[Andrew P]

Quite right Gordon. How Tim Maddocks became "Ian", I don't know!!!

 

Jeff

Its your age Boss, hhahaaa

 

Dodgit Ducking and Diving, (Solicitors for cheeky Modellers)

[The Stationmaster]

So Mike - are you saying I can get away with the same particle size across the viaduct width - and so I don't need to try and grind the ballast to "powder"?

 

Jeff

Yes Jeff (already discussed in PM this a.m. but posted here in case others are interested)

[Physicsman]

Update: I've spent several hours today doing some more work on my friend's garden - a couple of pics in the Lounge...

 

However, I've just been into the bunker and prepped up a bit more track for ballasting: masking tape, fitting sleepers into gaps and spraying with rail grime. I'll ballast in the morning and set up my "experimental rail" for painting tests.

 

Jeff

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Viaduct ballasting looking v good Jeff.

 

As far as I know, the ballast would be of similiar size. There wouldn't be a cess of ash/clinker over the viaduct itself. The ballast would extend almost the full width of the structure. At the base of each of the sidewalls on the viaduct would be a stone ledge (approx 2 - 3ft wide). The ballast would be laid up to these.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Hope this makes sense.....

[Physicsman]

Thanks Peter.

 

Following the discussions on pp. 300-301 I'll use the same grade of ballast across the profile. The photo I showed on p. 300 (post # 7492), repeated below, shows the required ledging - which I'll do with plastikard.

 

 

This is going to be a little tricky to cut and fit (a bit of foresight before fixing the viaduct in place would have helped - always the case), but I'll get it done shortly!

 

Jeff

[robmcg]

All looking good to me Jeff. You do the work, we enjoy the results!

[Rowsley17D]

The ballasting on the viaduct looks very good Jeff and is swaying me to use the technique when I need to get round to it. Although may use the "Larry" application on straight track if I can confident of actually laying track straight on to a bed of glue.

 

The roof lights are supposed to be fitted to my loft in a couple of weeks, so who knows, real railway building by autumn? We'll have to see.