Kirkby Luneside (Original): End of the line....

[Physicsman]

Blimey lads, you're teaching me stuff I'm totally unaware of - and I'm not referring to modelling! Manhood's, balls and aching...all sounds a bit grim. Look, I know Larry takes things a bit far with his layouts, but Andy & Jason - a bit beyond the call of duty making such sacrifices, isn't it??!!

 

Behave yerselves!

LOL!!

 

After the bl***y frustrating day I've had, I NEED a laugh!

 

Jeff

[Andy C]

Blimey lads, you're teaching me stuff I'm totally unaware of - and I'm not referring to modelling! Manhood's, balls and aching...all sounds a bit grim. Look, I know Larry takes things a bit far with his layouts, but Andy & Jason - a bit beyond the call of duty making such sacrifices, isn't it??!!

 

Behave yerselves!

LOL!!

 

After the bl***y frustrating day I've had, I NEED a laugh!

 

Jeff

 

Its the end result that counts Jeff, try to get it right first time round saves a lot of frustration and loss of mojo later. Been there and got the T shirt - many times over.

And if we can't have a laugh with our modelling then it really seriously is time to go and see a trick cyclist

[Jason T]

Totally agree with Andy. Some of the tasks I've been doing have been insanely tedious (like now - scoring and filing coping stones into Microstrip) but the end result is worth it. I'd rather be sick to death of doing something repetitive for a week or so than spend god-knows-how-long being annoyed with myself because I never bothered. If it isn't quite right because I wasn't able to achieve the level of skill required then I'm okay with that, as long as I tried.

 

If you need a laugh, have a look at the Daily Mash - it always cheers me up: http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/

Edited October 18, 2012 by Sandside

[aberdare]

Hi Jeff

 

I have been offline for a bit due to the other factors in my life being a priority and I've catching up with with your thread - almost three pages - and enjoying the banter. As with Andy and Sandside I have spent ages on some of my efforts until I am satisfied, in fact I have recently changed my station building as it didn't look right and even then I think 'I should have done it that way instead'. Looking forward to this track appearing though - since post 400 wasn't it? .

 

Love the banter anyway and this is still and will be one of the first threads I look for when logging on.

 

Cheers

 

Jim

[Physicsman]

The source of my frustration today has been the 2 Cobalt motors in the single slip. Up early this morning (6am), first normal turnout wired in and motor fitted in about 40 minutes. No problem at all. Since then.... Dare I say I now have the motors positioned correctly giving a good throw at only 6V... WHY didn't it do this earlier?

 

The electrics in all this is a doddle, but around lunchtime I almost threw the blasted motors all the way back to Australia!!

 

Jason, Andy - quite agree. This thread (I don't know what others want in their threads but I WANT FUN!!) is all about enjoying what we do and helping each other with the frustrating times via a bit of advice and a laugh. Andy Peters is the master of this - don't know where he's been for a couple of pages!

 

Thanks guys - all of you. You keep me sane and I hope I sometimes do the same for you... Jason, HOW MANY SLATE TILES IS IT??

 

Cheers,

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Come off it Jim. Post 400? Andy P had me putting it down before the subframe was built - post 200 more like!! Lol.

 

I know this thread is getting rather large, but it's not just about my work. I hope it's a mini-forum for ideas - good ones to be used and bad ones to be binned. I've had a few bad ideas on here over the last few months and I've been set back on the right path. Glad you continue to enjoy what you see. Tracklaying for a while then there REALLY will be lots of posts - I get to do my favourite bit with the hillsides and scenery. Hope Andy Y's got space for threads with over 2000 posts!! Lol.

 

My railway guru, Al (RMweb = Schubert), is calling round shortly. So he'll maybe come up with some short cuts and we can discuss the SMP web issue. Hopefully he won't cost me much money - usually he leaves behind so many suggestions I'm almost bankrupted!

 

Hope to post some photos in the next day or so. Nothing exciting, just track lying on a baseboard - but, hey, JOINED TOGETHER. However, it's the double slip next. Electrically - fine... but those Cobalts are waiting for me!

 

Best wishes,

 

Jeff

Edited October 18, 2012 by Physicsman

[Jason T]

61 slates per row, 80 rows done so far. That's 4720 downward cuts and 80 strips cut (not forgetting the margins on the printed pages, 4 per sheet; 10 sheets, so 40 of those too). All told, that is a grand total of 4840 cuts, all with a blunt blade to leave a decent enough gap, meaning a bit of force for each; it's no wonder my bloody hand hurts!

 

Edit: I found the same with Cobalts and Tortoises but you can get around it by moving the pivot jobbie around a bit (e.g. up / down). I know a few people have gone for thicker wire but I persevered and got there in the end. The next point of frustration will be if (when?) you get a Cobalt that clicks. There is a known issue with them where the cogs inside don't line up properly so they keep on going for a bit, although *apparently* that has been fixed now.

Are you operating them with DCC or DC? I opted for DCC so at some point, when I get round to reading the instructions for my Digitrax controller, I can set up routes.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Sandside

[Physicsman]

61 slates per row, 80 rows done so far. That's 4720 downward cuts and 80 strips cut (not forgetting the margins on the printed pages, 4 per sheet; 10 sheets, so 40 of those too). All told, that is a grand total of 4840 cuts, all with a blunt blade to leave a decent enough gap, meaning a bit of force for each; it's no wonder my bloody hand hurts!

 

Edit: I found the same with Cobalts and Tortoises but you can get around it by moving the pivot jobbie around a bit (e.g. up / down). I know a few people have gone for thicker wire but I persevered and got there in the end. The next point of frustration will be if (when?) you get a Cobalt that clicks. There is a known issue with them where the cogs inside don't line up properly so they keep on going for a bit, although *apparently* that has been fixed now.

Are you operating them with DCC or DC? I opted for DCC so at some point, when I get round to reading the instructions for my Digitrax controller, I can set up routes.

 

Daily Mash - precious...love the article on Felix Baumgartner.

 

Already found a Cobalt that clicks - started when I hit it with more than 14V. Operating them off DC, couldn't be bothered with the number of accessory decoders for now. Maybe in the future. As far as the wire is concerned - yes, I'd thought about getting some thicker, less bendy steel, but fiddling with the pivot and voltage seems to have sorted it.

 

Good luck with all those lovely slates!!

 

Jeff

Edited October 18, 2012 by Physicsman

[peach james]

Torti/Cobalt's- I used some .022" stainless wire I had as a replacement originally, now I think I am using something like .043 brass, based on availability. I found the original wire was very weak if you were trying to move peco switchs with the over centre mechanism intact. (and that can lead to big problems if they are electrofrog, with the contacts in the Torti changing track power...)

 

DCC operation of turnouts is NOT needed unless you are planning to automate. If you are planning to automate, then it is basically mandatory. If you are planning on just using DCC for track power, then don't use DCC to power the turnouts, it isn't worth the cost.

 

Wiring motors: I use some 8 wire phone cable (22 ga), or cat 5e network cable, make a terminal strip ~2 ft from the motor. YMMV, but I find it much easier to wire a batch of turnouts the right way up on the bench, then install & connect wiring, rather than trying to solder wires upside down on the layout. (which I try to avoid...) With Torti, because of the strange edge connector they are designed to fit, it is fairly easy to wire them that way & be done with it. Yes, it costs choc. strip to do each one, but that's OK to me. It makes them easy to reuse as well...

 

James

[Jaakko]

I keep hoovering up but there's already bits of insulation, wire choppings, solder balls, cork, the dog's dinner... etc everywhere. I'm trying to keep it tidy but one of the inevitabilities of layout building is a dramatic increase in the ENTROPY of the system - in other words, a bl***y mess! So a few more bits of brown plastic will probably go unnoticed!!

 

Clearly, the layout building is an irreversible process as the entropy of your model universe is increasing. You should ask Maxwell’s demon to open and close the door of your bunker in order to decrease the entropy of your isolated system Otherwise keep hoovering…

Edited October 18, 2012 by Jaakko

[Physicsman]

Clearly, the layout building is an irreversible process as the entropy of your model universe is increasing. You should ask Maxwell’s demon to open and close the door of your bunker in order to decrease the entropy of your isolated system Otherwise keep hoovering…

 

If you saw the inside of the bunker at the present time you would definitely conclude that the entropy of my model universe is increasing. I'm also in a non-equilibrium state as the act of reducing entropy in the bunker is only going to increase it elsewhere. Not sure how all that affects my Free energy - though at the moment that is minimal as I'm knackered.

 

No more turnouts tonight!

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Gordon, regarding cutting the web on SMP track. Just had a look at this - nicking each part of the web makes the track VERY flexible, but runs the risk of sleepers in random directions. Do YOU cut them all - I thought one out of every two... Any comments, please?

 

Jeff

[Jason T]

I cut all of them ( on one side ) and it does make it very flexible, but just take your time when laying it, making sure everything is in the right place before the glue sets. The thing with SMP is that it is a pain in the arse compared to Peco but the end result is a hundred times better. It is also not as sturdy and I found that the rail can lift out of some chairs if you are a bit heavy handed, but they are easily slipped back in with some careful tweaking with a craft knife blade.

 

Something you may want to consider is replacing the sleepers at the end of awkward sections with a couple of 1.06 thickness PCB sleepers, soldered on and gapped. A bit of a pain (and you may need a track gauge) but it holds things together well and helps alignment.

[jukebox]

*snip*

 

Wiring motors: I use some 8 wire phone cable (22 ga), or cat 5e network cable, make a terminal strip ~2 ft from the motor. YMMV, but I find it much easier to wire a batch of turnouts the right way up on the bench, then install & connect wiring, rather than trying to solder wires upside down on the layout. (which I try to avoid...)

*snip*

James

 

Funny thing; Until you wrote that comment James, I'd never thought about pre-wiring the motors themsleves - soldering droppers to the turnouts at my workbench? Yes. But not prepping the motors. Good call!

[Physicsman]

I cut all of them ( on one side ) and it does make it very flexible, but just take your time when laying it, making sure everything is in the right place before the glue sets. The thing with SMP is that it is a pain in the arse compared to Peco but the end result is a hundred times better. It is also not as sturdy and I found that the rail can lift out of some chairs if you are a bit heavy handed, but they are easily slipped back in with some careful tweaking with a craft knife blade.

 

Something you may want to consider is replacing the sleepers at the end of awkward sections with a couple of 1.06 thickness PCB sleepers, soldered on and gapped. A bit of a pain (and you may need a track gauge) but it holds things together well and helps alignment.

 

Thanks Jason. I'm not actually using glue to hold the track in place. The turnouts are virtually rigid due to the motors and droppers all around them. The SMP track will be fixed to cork using double-sided sellotape every 10cm or so - it is so strong that a sample I tried earlier ripped a hole in the cork when removed. Drawing pins will be pushed in at strategic places and the track will remain like that until ballasted. Believe me, it doesn't move!

 

I'll be in the bunker at 7am to start the process on the double-slip. Quite enjoy the electrical work, but hate fiddling with the motors!

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Funny thing; Until you wrote that comment James, I'd never thought about pre-wiring the motors themsleves - soldering droppers to the turnouts at my workbench? Yes. But not prepping the motors. Good call!

 

Cobalts require no soldering at all. The switching feeds under my board are taken from the turnout to terminal block and then click-in to the Cobalt interface. That's the easy bit. The tricky bit is to make the motors throw the point blades fully. Mostly they do, maybe one of my slips has a "stiff" throw-bar (I know it has).

 

Jeff

[jukebox]

Cobalts require no soldering at all. The switching feeds under my board are taken from the turnout to terminal block and then click-in to the Cobalt interface. That's the easy bit. The tricky bit is to make the motors throw the point blades fully. Mostly they do, maybe one of my slips has a "stiff" throw-bar (I know it has).

 

Jeff

 

Indeed - hence the description "prepping"

 

Do you also bench-test the Cobalts with a 9V battery before you install them, Jeff? (to help isolate the source of any issues you might have once you do install them)

 

Scott

[Physicsman]

Indeed - hence the description "prepping"

 

Do you also bench-test the Cobalts with a 9V battery before you install them, Jeff? (to help isolate the source of any issues you might have once you do install them)

 

Scott

 

Morning Scott.

 

Thanks for the PM. Yes, I check each Cobalt prior to fixing and use my DC supply to set the wire in the vertical position to help alignment with the centre of the tie bar.

 

It's a nifty little product. I'm off to fit a few more shortly.

 

Jeff

[gordon s]

Gordon, regarding cutting the web on SMP track. Just had a look at this - nicking each part of the web makes the track VERY flexible, but runs the risk of sleepers in random directions. Do YOU cut them all - I thought one out of every two... Any comments, please?

 

Jeff

 

Hi Jeff, welcome to the joys of track laying....Maybe it's because I've had to lay a lot of track over the last few years, but I haven't experienced the same problems. I cut through every web on one side only. Leaving the web in place on one side maintains the sleeper spacing and having the cut side on the outside of the curve allows the sleepers to fan out as it were and maintain alignment. Yes, I do adjust the odd one or two, but otherwise the bulk of them remain untouched.

 

Where I did have a problem originally is with dog leg curves. Once the base has been cut, I lay the track on the intended curve and gently form it to shape by hand, working my way along the track. I'm having to force myself to think about what I do as it's become second nature, but I probably take two or three passes along the curve, rather than trying to do it in one go. The other invaluable tool is your own eyesight and nothing beats your own eyes for looking down a curve and seeing where the curve is not flowing correctly. I glue my track down as that gives you a little more time to adjust the curve, whereas double sided tape is immediate and gives no time for adjustment.

 

Once the track is firmly glued down, I solder in pcb sleepers, one per piece of track, for power connection. I know there are dozens of ways to add power connections, but soldering the dropper under a pseudo chair is less obtrusive and once painted is far less noticeable.

 

Edit: Don't forget to gap the sleepers though or you'll have shorts all over the place.

Edited October 19, 2012 by gordon s

[Physicsman]

That's very helpful Gordon. Fortunately, I've no dog-leg curves - so hopefully it'll be straightforward. I'm just using the minimum amount of tape - I was surprised at how sticky it was! But I've also got some drawing pins - I think it was you that recommended them - for temporary use, until the track is ballasted. I'm hoping there won't be too many problems as I've tried to maintain large radius curves wherever possible. The fiddle yard is Peco, so I will probably use a few track pins.

 

When there is anything remotely worth photographing I'll post some pics.

 

Cheers,

 

Jeff

[coachmann]

I wouldnt dream of cutting across other hints and tips, but would simply add that I use a small pin chuck to drill .45" holes partially into the plywood then sink in a Peco track pin and bend it over. It is enough to hold the odd alignment while ballast is poured on and vac't off. Then the addition of 3"x1" timber and books as weights does the rest while the glue takes hold. I remove the weights after an hour as there is still time to make very minor adjustments while the ballast is still wet. Then the weights are put back for several hours.

Edited October 19, 2012 by coachmann

[Physicsman]

Good post that, Larry. That's what this thread is for - keep chucking out the good ideas!!

 

Jeff

[Mrkirtley800]

There seems to be as many ways of fixing track as there are modellers. So this is the way I do it. My track is built from basic components - wooden sleepers, brass rivets , all from the EM Society and lengths of rail. I made a track jig some years ago, so the sleepers, are fitted with the rivets and loaded into the jig, one length of rail is soldered on, making half track.

This is then laid 'dry' and it's final position determined by dressmakers pins. Track lifted and the base covered in PVA glue' Track replaced into position and ballasted. Pins removed and rail checked for kinks etc by eye. The ballast holds the half track in position and when all OK put lengths of 3*1 on it weighted down and waite until glue has set when the other rail can be fixed and everything cleaned up. Makes for a very strong track but unfortunately can't be lifted easily.although can be adjusted slightly if kinks do appear.

Sleepers are obtained ready punched with holes to take the rivets.. Making your own track means that you can use the proper length of sleepers. With mine it is for the pre group scene with 9' lengths.

It is a bit soul destroying building plain track but I have a stock of rivets and sleepers etc and do it while watching TV.

Hope you find the method that suits you Jeff

Derek.

[The Stationmaster]

Roughly the same method as Coachman except with the last lot of SMP I laid I drilled the sleeper and underlay into the MDF trackbed in order to get the track into and held in position prior to ballasting it, and test run on it in that state.

[Physicsman]

It's interesting reading all the contributions as I've never used SMP before. The pointwork certainly isn't going to move, with all the droppers and motors - yes, there's a little bit of give, but I'm using no adhesives there. As for the SMP itself, I'll keep it nice and simple, as I said in a previous post. The double-sided tape does have a lot of grip, and a "PVA bed" does have the advantage of adjustment - I used the stuff on the previous layout to fix the track down.

 

I'll let you all know what I get up to in the next few days. I've got plenty of drawing pins ready. Like Larry, if I wanted to use trackpins I'd have to drill small holes into the ply board, as it's a bit tough.

 

Almost as many ways as there are modellers...

 

Thanks for your posts. Oh, btw, for those who follow this thread. The Cobalts are fine. The "problem" on the slips is that 2 of the four tie bars are rather stiff - much more so than normal turnouts which are actuating perfectly. A bit of rubbing down and a tiny bit of lubrication seems to be doing the trick.

 

Jeff