Kirkby Luneside (Original): End of the line....

[Jason T]

Sorry to hear that Rob. For the next trials, it may be worth doing with just some off-cuts or spare sleepers without any rail down, until you are happy with the result.

[MichaelW]

Rob, you may find that a soak in water _may_ loosen the ballast enough to let it be removed - I can't promise that it won't cause other things to come unstuck though...

[Andrew P]

Hi Jeff, just popped in over breakfast to see how much you have done overnight before I shoot off to the show, WOT NUFIN GUVNOR I am very interested in the track laying efforts of your compatriots, I have always PVA ;ed after pinning (that was after I moved on from the 6 inch nails down to 4 inch, hahah) and then after running for a Month or so to ensure I was totally happy with EVERY ASPECT, the I would make a start by firstly painting and lastly ballasting. I would fear that with sticking down first, any final adjustments, re-alignments and change of plan, i.e put in or remove a point ot siding could have devastating effects on the other laid track.

 

The question I have for you Professor is this, AM I JUST GETTING OLD?

 

haaheee ho ho ho Andy

[southern42]

 

The question I have for you Professor is this, AM I JUST GETTING OLD?

 

haaheee ho ho ho Andy

 

With a laugh like that Andy,

how old is Farther Christmas?

 

Ho ho ho <------- the nearest Father Christmas I could find. Ho ho ho

[Physicsman]

Many moons ago, when I was a member of the East Lancs MRC, they laid track and ballasted at the same time by laying a length of SMP on the track plan drawn on the base board using track pins through the sleepers for positioning, cutting the tops off the pins, lifting the track to apply PVA, replacing the track and ballasting each length as they went, weighting it until the glue set. The pins were removed and any holes left disappeared under the paint. I perhaps should have mentioned it quite a few posts back but someone might find it useful. Including me come to think of it!

 

Regards

 

Bemused of Morecambe

 

I think this is almost the technique that Larry uses. I know he does the laying and ballasting all in one go and the piles of books he stacks on his track are legendary!!

 

Thanks Bemused (lol.... think you can hide, Bill!! )

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Binsey Village, off Botley Road and sort of opposite Port Meadow. It's a French restaurant / pub now and very nice.

 

It is definitely worth experimenting with ballast, etc., as there are a few methods and you have a lot larger area than I did to ballast. As you can see from the photos, I sprayed the track with 'sleeper grime' before ballasting but painted the rails with Precision track colour by hand afterwards, which was a mistake really as it would have been easier to paint it beforehand; doing the rail sides and each chair (yes, really..,..) by hand with a small brush, trying to ensure I didn't get any on the ballast was a pain in the proverbial.

 

Yes, I made a similar mistake on the last layout - though the amount of rail painting there was relatively minimal. I think I used Precision paints, but I didn't paint the chairs. People seem to do these tasks in different orders... I'll probably paint the rail sides, spray with grime (may use a can if I haven't got an airbrush by then), then ballast.

 

Binsey - there's a name I haven't heard in years. I'd totally forgotten the place, a bit north off the Botley Road. Think I went there once!

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Hi Rob. Like Jason, sorry to see what's happened. With plastic sleeper track, a good soak allows most of the PVA to fall away, but not sure what your hardwood would do if you soaked it in water.

 

Like you say, there are so many variables - temperature being one. I'll probably ballast in February - so the cold will mean the PVA is pretty "thick" and less likely to run - I use it neat. I may end up using Copydex - who knows?

 

Now then, young Peters .... listen to your Professor's advice! Every layout you've made has been excellent, so your age isn't showing yet!! Ho, ho, ho!

 

Polly - I'm not sure people expect you to look under the boards at exhibitions. Shame, as I'm sure it'd be interesting. Hope the Christmas cake goes well - remember to top it with icing sugar and not N-gauge ballast (crunchy texture?).

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Update: Guess what I've done today? Yep, another couple of hours of wiring... Zzzzzzzzz.

 

Maybe another 2 - 3 hours tomorrow, then I MUST do something different - the tunnel mouth, methinks.

 

Jeff

[southern42]

Polly - I'm not sure people expect you to look under the boards at exhibitions. Shame, as I'm sure it'd be interesting. Hope the Christmas cake goes well - remember to top it with icing sugar and not N-gauge ballast (crunchy texture?).

 

Jeff

 

At one exhibition I was at the wiring was all exposed - couldn't miss it

I can't remember which layout or which exhibition so couldn't possibly squeal....

But no need to worry, Jeff, it wasn't as artistic as yours, and it certainly wasn't as colourful.

 

Cake made it to the oven ok.

I could add a Santa Train on top of the icing...hmmmm.....'N' ice idea...might need that ballast after all

 

Enjoy your COFFEE and wiring (I know you do, really)...

Edited December 9, 2012 by southern42

[Physicsman]

Strangely enough, I DO enjoy wiring everything up - as long as it works when I've done it! I think I need to start installing the track bus so I can work my way through the turnouts etc and convince myself that my care has been rewarded.

 

Just need a change.... Andy Peters has an extension planned to his lovely O gauge layout Trebudoc. His mate George is making him some station buildings, using ply as a base. As you'll have gathered, if you've looked at the frames, viaducts etc earlier in this thread, I like working with wood. So George's photos got my juices going. Hence the need for the tunnel mouth to start!

 

Glad the cake's going ok. Your puns are every bit as bad as mine - and the rest of the gang on here aren't much better! You can imagine filling-in an application at a dating agency... "Middle-aged gentleman seeks like-aged lady for company. Terrible sense-of-humour a necessity!!".

 

As for modelling during the rest of today - not a chance. In my warm living room with the sports channels on!!

 

Best wishes,

 

Jeff

Edited December 9, 2012 by Physicsman

[ChrisN]

I used the paint in, scatter and then hoover up method, although used diluted Copydex rather than PVA as the latter sets everything rock solid and negates the laying of cork/foam underlay to deaden sound. Only difference with Copydex is that if you mess up and try to pull a bit off, it can peel out a whole section (although if you are careful enough when painting, it shouldn't be a problem. Oh, it smells a bit too.

 

 

Thread Hi-jack Warning!

 

Question for Sandside. What dilution ratio do you use? If it was PVA I would put it in a small container and add water. Is it that easy with Copydex as it is much thicker?

 

If you have explained it on your thread just say as I am slowly working my way through it.

 

Thanks

[Physicsman]

Thread Hi-jack Warning!

 

Question for Sandside. What dilution ratio do you use? If it was PVA I would put it in a small container and add water. Is it that easy with Copydex as it is much thicker?

 

If you have explained it on your thread just say as I am slowly working my way through it.

 

Thanks

 

Good question Chris. I'd like to know the answer to that one too. Does copydex use water as the solvent or is it something else?

 

Jeff

[robmcg]

What IS Copdex? A tradename, brand name? In any event good morning all. My three lengths of '60ft' track sections are now irrevocably 'set'... with what was about 70% PVA 29.8% water 0.2% detergent, and are really horrible. Since it took 11 weeks to get to this stage, after delays in supply, difficulty threading chairs onto rails, and exhaustive beginners pains assembling the track, I am now going to announce my withdrawal from track construction, for now. My sanity is more important.

 

I am however an incurable optomist, and as Jan will attest, author of all my misfortunes.

 

I will photograph the ballasted track shortly. It makes a change...

[robmcg]

too horrible for words.

 

Also known as, never again, so long as I live....

 

 

Cordially,

 

Rob

[figworthy]

Having trawled through underboard pics taken over the last month, this one best shows the Cobalt connections alluded to in the diagram posts (2148 - 2149).

 

The DC supply is the Yellow lead (input 1) and Blue lead (input EIGHT - sorry, bl**dy stupid face if number 8 typed in!)

 

Black lead (input 2) from Black connections to Turnout Stock Rails and Switch Rail (point blades).

 

Read lead (input 3) from Red connections to Turnout Stock Rails and Switch Rail (point blades).

 

Green lead (input 4 = common on internal SPDT switch of Cobalt) to Turnout Frog.

 

The only connections not in place are those to the Track Bus - not yet fitted.

 

 

Ok, I'm going to shut up about this now - but fitting these blighters is all I've done for the last few days!!

 

Jeff

 

A question (certainly not a criticism). Why are you wiring the frogs via a connector rather than directly to the Cobalt ?

 

Adrian

[coachmann]

Thats a real shame Rob. Can't you soak it to retreave the fine track and start afresh using a different ballasting method? I did an entry this afternoon about making a meal of ballasting instead of going the easy route, then decided to delete it.

 

Seeing as your track is straigh and short, it would be dead easy to brush on your chosen glue (PVA or Copydex?), place track in place then sprinkle on fine ballast. Gently press it down then clear the rail heads and place flat wooden battons in place plus a load of books. After an hour, Dyson off the surplus ballast, check the track hasnt moved then replace all the weights for another hour or so............. Job done.

Edited December 9, 2012 by coachmann

[Andrew P]

Hi all,

Re post 2178, I ment t say that I lay the track using the very fine Peco wire pins. These are inserted in from the out side into the chair of the sleeper, this is only pushed in a short way and then bent over untill the ballast is dry and then they can be easilly removed without a trace.

 

Some few post ago, poss a page or two Jeff asked about some pics of our clubs Viaduct, It is not yet fully finnished and the photos are NOT THAT GREAT, as the A4 etc were traveling at some speed and I was standing on a windy hilside.

 

Sorry to invade such a varied and informative site Jeff.

 

All the best Andy.

Edited December 9, 2012 by Andrew P

[Physicsman]

A question (certainly not a criticism). Why are you wiring the frogs via a connector rather than directly to the Cobalt ?

 

Adrian

 

That's a good question Adrian. And there's no reason why I couldn't have done just that. I just wanted to have the wires organised onto the bottom of the board via the terminal block. Bearing in mind that the red and black droppers from the turnout needed connecting to the track bus and Cobalt inputs I went for a block connection here, rather than a bit of soldering. I like terminal block as it provides a good structural support for key connections, rather than having the soldered wires hanging down.

 

For anyone looking at this, there is no need to use a block connection - just a personal preference!

 

Jeff

 

Edit: Another comment: The red and black feed into the Cobalt is a combination of 2 wires - one from the Stock rail, one from the Switch rail. Getting these two into the hole provided on the bottom of the Cobalt was tricky - another reason I went through a block. I did use copper wire to bond the rails on about 3 of the turnouts - due to their awkward location. In those cases I'd have had just the single wire to fit to the Cobalt. Just another reason I went by this route.

 

Such a simple initial question, Adrian. I had to think hard as to why I used the method I did. Cheers!

Edited December 9, 2012 by Physicsman

[Physicsman]

Rob - hope Larry's suggestions work. Please don't give up. Even if you have to start from scratch again, you now have the technique sorted to build the trackwork. Use the "failed" track to carry out experiments 'til you arrive at a suitable solution.

 

Andy - what thread "invasion" would that be? I asked you to get some viaduct pics - if you could - and what could be more characteristic of the S&C than a viaduct? A work in progress - when I win the lottery I'll build one about that size. Great stuff! And btw, when have you ever "invaded"?

 

Jeff

[Mythocentric]

I think this is almost the technique that Larry uses. I know he does the laying and ballasting all in one go and the piles of books he stacks on his track are legendary!!

 

Thanks Bemused (lol.... think you can hide, Bill!! )

 

Jeff

 

Curses! Foiled again!

 

Regards

 

Colonel Ethel Moriarty (Deceased)

[Physicsman]

Curses! Foiled again!

 

Regards

 

Colonel Ethel Moriarty (Deceased)

 

Bill - can I give you a hint? Phoebe gives the game away! Lol!!!

 

Hope the modelling's going ok.

 

Jeff

[robmcg]

Thanks for the thoughts and musings about learning techniques and so on. The track I have made so far is in 250mm sections with sleepers glued to sheet plastic, the clear plastic allowing a template for sleeper-spacing, and chairs and rails glued onto that, so brushing on a glue for ballast was done by droplets from above, and did in fact make a smooth white flat surface, onto which ballast was dribbled. No glue on tops of sleepers, on rails, nor chairs.

 

Attempt 1 the removal of excess ballast after 4 hrs @ 20C by tipping track upside down was a total disaster... no flat ballast, just craters of the moon. All over the place. No idea why.

 

Attempts 2 & 3 similar flat PVA acheived between all sleepers and none on top of sleepers, sprinkled with ballast, left to dry overnight, total disaster, slightly less thick craters of the moon. No need to turn track upside down as nearly all was stuck fast.

 

Have not tried vacuuming excess off as per an option in attempt 1 as with track section being light and mobile (for different dioramas as required) it was easy to tip section over and pour excess ballast back into container for re-use or disposal.

 

Certainly I probably COULD start again, but I am not right now disposed to. A quiet cup of tea sounds better.

 

Eventually I will paint the rails rust brown and photoshop the ballast. I am told it is possible to buy pre-assembled lengths of code 75 bullhead in some parts of the world. It wasn't offered by the agent for C&L in NZ,. he preferred to sell NZ native wood sleepers and lengths of rail together with chairs. He was generous with his time and energy, threading most of the chairs for me. Maybe I asked the wrong questions. I would like to know of a supplier in the UK who will cut some sections into suitable lengths and send them to me. I asked here on RMweb but none of the suppliers mentioned in replies appears very happy to cut track up for overseas customers. I should have emailed a few of them.

Edited December 9, 2012 by robmcg

[Andrew P]

Jeff,

 

it's me again,

 

this time I am invading with a few pics from our clubs O Gauge layout today, hope you all enjoy BUT not too much and start ripping up all that wonderfull OO TRACK, ho ho ho.

 

Andy

[Physicsman]

Rob, forgive me if I'm missing something here. But can't you buy a box of SMP or C&L track and have it shipped out? I'm ordering 3 more turnouts from Marcway tomorrow and I'll need another box (my sixth) of 10 yards of SMP. Would SMP be good enough for you (it's bullhead). If so, why can't Marcway ship you a box, at cost?

 

Or have I (forgive the pun) gone down the wrong track?

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Andy, the last 2 shots - of the Goods shed and yard - are excellent!

 

Was the viaduct OO gauge, btw?

 

Jeff