halfwit Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 In the recent 'Cleaning brass kits' thread mention has been made of ultrasonic cleaners. But just how effective are they? What cleaning agents can be used? And do people use them at every stage of a kit build (to remove flux residue for example) or just prior to painting? I'm wondering if their users would view one as an essential or a luxury? Any models that are recommended? I've done a search but I can't seem to find a topic that answers all of the above in one thread. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) IMO a luxury (but that is only because I don't have one (yet) and seem to have managed without. But "luxury" can be said of many things: chassis jigs, rsu, grit blaster, hold-n-fold, right-clamp, rivet press, pillar drill, roller bars ... all of which we can all manage without until the point at which we buy them and they become the essential bit of kit we never knew how we could have done without. I did say "yet" because it has been crossing my mind too of late and I recall a thread (one of the 7mm ones ?) on here that did discuss the purchase of a new bigger-better one, though can't find it ATM. I do have a very small ultrasonic bath - TBH it is useless for anything bigger than a 4mm wagon - SWMBO bought it for cleaning jewelry - I use it occasionally for removing that flux residue (particularly from solder paste) that sits inside where you cannot get a toothbrush. Now I have the need desire for a bigger one all of my own! Edited March 22, 2012 by Kenton 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingerbread Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I would vote in favour of the ultrasonic cleaner. Mine is at the cheap end - £20 as I recall, from Aldi - so I wouldn't regard it as a luxury. Not essential, but well worth the price. I use it with plain cold water, haven't tried any of the usual cleaning agents, or the suggestion of using warm water in it. I have used it at after each session of soldering since I acquired it a few months ago, and it seems to make a much better job of cleaning than my previous efforts (conventional small brush and Cif etc). It is likely that my preference for ultrasonic over conventional cleaning arises at least partly from working in 2mm - I find it difficult to access all the corners of small models with conventional cleaning, but this is not a problem with ultrasonic. David 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iak Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Would not be without mine. Mind I have used them in work for years so it was a no-brainer. They clean every nook and cranny and have other benefits which can get you brownie points... Cleaning the Mother In Laws specs for starters.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
-missy- Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Hello I have been thinking and I wondered if one would work with some dry sharp sand instead of water? That way you could have a basic 'shot blaster'. Just a thought... Missy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 IMO a luxury (but that is only because I don't have one (yet) and seem to have managed without. I did say "yet" because it has been crossing my mind too of late and I recall a thread (one of the 7mm ones ?) on here that did discuss the purchase of a new bigger-better one, though can't find it ATM. Now I have the need desire for a bigger one all of my own! Hello Kenton, all, It was in my Bulldog build thread on P20 mess #480, you may have to go back a page or two for details of the cleaning fluid that I use, The new cleaner at the back The basket in place, the cleaner cost £150 + £15 P&P The details for the cleaning fluid is on P18 starting at Mess. #429,, new cleaning fluid on the left The same fluid after one use, this was on a loco that I would have said was not that dirty HTH OzzyO. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
6959 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 In the aircraft industry, light alloy components are often glass bead blasted before being chemically cleaned and painted. The glass beads are very small and about the size of coarse sand. I wonder how glass beads would work in an ultrasonic cleaner or small bowl type vibratory cleaner. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingerbread Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I have been thinking and I wondered if one would work with some dry sharp sand instead of water? That way you could have a basic 'shot blaster'. That's an interesting idea. I can't find any evidence of anybody using it that way, from my brief web search, and I'm a bit sceptical that it would work, so I will be interested to hear if you have any success with it. Conventional ultrasonic cleaning relies on cavitation in the liquid, which wouldn't apply with sand. Perhaps your ultrasonic cleaner would induce a "vibration" throughout the sand, so that it worked like sandpaper... Whilst browsing I came across an article here which gives some useful experimental results, albeit on shotgun shells rather than brass etches. General consensus from what I have read seems to be: use it warm (typically 30-50 degrees C) add a cleaning agent leave it running for about an hour rinse afterwards with distilled water I typically run mine for about 5 minutes, with no cleaning agent, just cold water, and I am happy with the results that I get from it. The liquid isn't as dirty afterwards as the example illustrated by OzzyO, but is dirty enough to indicate that it has dragged a lot of grime off the etches. David 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Having carried out some "internet" research on the subject this afternoon ... there seems to be quite a few available over prices ranging from £30 - £1000 the big problem with most is the available tank dimensions (not volume). The wife's jewelry one has a tank of (l,w,d) 90x30x40mm which may be ok for several 2mm and the smallest of 4mm wagons but useless for a A1 in 7mm ! Many tanks it seems go for depth rather than length to increase capacity (how high is a A1 in 7mm?) and you are really talking 3 litre capacity minimum. Thanks OzzyO, that was the thread I was thinking of. What are the internal dimensions of that new bath and will the basket in, and the make/model/source? It has to be said that for a cramped workbench these require a lot of real-estate. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingerbread Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Mine (£20 from Aldi) is about 130 by 90 by 30 (though probably only fillable to about 25) - all dimensions in mm. This is fine for 2mm, but questionable for 4mm, and probably useless for 7mm David 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iak Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Try this gents.. http://www.killerink...-for-tattooing/ 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iak Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Mine (£20 from Aldi) is about 130 by 90 by 30 (though probably only fillable to about 25) - all dimensions in mm. This is fine for 2mm, but questionable for 4mm, and probably useless for 7mm David The wee Aldi one is a steal and does a good job - ideal for small bits... Profligate to have two maybe but then the larger ones need care emptying; that is except if one likes the Missus hitting one with a blunt object... As for cleaning fluid? Neutracon - http://www.decon.co.uk/english/neutracon.asp Edited March 22, 2012 by iak 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_t Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Try Allendale ultrasonics they list dimensions as well as capacity. They also sell various cleaning fluids for them as well. No connection, and I've not brought anything off them (and I know them as machine DRO!) I've got a small one, probably the same as the Aldi one but from Perfect Minatures. It's OK for my 7mm Nellie, and a small 7mm wagon would probably fit OK, but not a lot else! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I know this is a kitbuilding subject but I've been trialling mine on shaking the crud off of wagon and coach wheelsets - pop them out and dunk a batch of them in the ultrasonic pan. While I'm a little worried that it could loosen tyres, or wheels on axles, I haven't spotted any such symptoms yet. Certainly seems to be doing a good job of loosening the usual black grime on the treads in early trials. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ngtrains.com Posted March 22, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2012 Didn't have one, thought them a bit of a luxury I could live without. Plus experiments with the cheap and not very cheerful unit my partner has for jewelry didn't seem to do much. Spurred on by Ozzy O's bottles of crud I lashed out and bought myself a decent sized one that will fit O gauge stuff in it and now I wouldn't be without one. It does a cracking job with the full clean up as Ozzy describes but its also a revelation for smaller stage clean ups. I have been making up some small loco cylinders today from a lot of etched components, solder and cream flux and eventually, and before it was complete, each became a sort of gooey mess of filings solder, un-soldered solder paste and flux. Once upon a time it would have meant a trip to the sink in the adjacent bathroom to give them a scrub with CIF and hot water whilst risking the wrath of domestic management. Now i drop them in the Ultrasonic cleaner and just give it a minutes burst. In truth the majority of the clean up of the loose gunge happens in the first 15 seconds and can be seen to burst off the work piece in a cloud of gunge. These assemblies got several of these small blasts at stages of construction with a decent clean up at the end. Conclusions - wouldn't be without it, should have got one years ago Don't buy a cheap and nasty job, you get what you pay for 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagrizz Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Hello I have been thinking and I wondered if one would work with some dry sharp sand instead of water? That way you could have a basic 'shot blaster'. Just a thought... Missy It won't work with dry sand. You need a liquid in the bath to transmit the vibrations. Regards Graham 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Being a clockmaker by trade we used these cleaners, they all had heaters for warming the solution, but we never used it, as by the end of the day it was too hot to put your hand in. We used to use a soap and ammonia solution, and later a chemical I cannot remember the name of. Both of which got brass clean enough for plating. If I had the chance I would use one. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Thanks OzzyO, that was the thread I was thinking of. What are the internal dimensions of that new bath and will the basket in, and the make/model/source? It has to be said that for a cramped workbench these require a lot of real-estate. Hello Kenton, all, the tank sizes are L32.3, W20.5, D9.9. The sizes of the inside of the basket are L31, W20, D9.5 and across the corners 33. I am putting the front and rear covers of the user manual up so that yous can see the details, hope that it's OK. It looks like there are at least three of them listed on Ebay starting at £196 and going up to £324, the lowest price one has the Ebay No. 120868118156. HTH OzzyO. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 All well and good having digital cleaners but I make anologue models!!!! I must sort my self out with one in the future 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 All well and good having digital cleaners but I make anologue models!!!! I must sort my self out with one in the future Hello N15class, It will still work on analogue models "honest"!!!!!! :haha: OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) One word of warning on these ebay items - they are imports and almost certainly will incur the customs and handling charges coming from China. At these prices it begins to definitely fall into the luxury tool class being more than the price of a 7mm loco kit! Justifying the expense to management begins to be a bit uphill. Edited March 23, 2012 by Kenton Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 And none of those would fit a 7mm large diesel, even a Warship........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 And none of those would fit a 7mm large diesel, even a Warship........ Hello JeffP, all, I've just had another look on Ebay and found this one I think that an O gauge diesel may fit in to it? It's 22 Litres fluid capacity and the tank size is L500 X W300 X D150. The size would be spot on for all my 7mm needs, it would just be storing it that would be a problem. The Ebay No. is 160647990230, I'll let you work out why I did not go for it. If you can't get the loco in in one go all is not lost, as long as all the loco gets covered in the fluid and you do it so that the last immersion has the holes to the bottom no probs. all it is, is it just takes more time. OzzyO. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iak Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) YIKES!!! THAT is expensive.............. Edited March 23, 2012 by iak Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold unravelled Posted March 23, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 23, 2012 Maplin sell a one with heater and a 264mm x 164mm x 80mm tank size for £100. http://www.maplin.co.uk/professional-ultrasonic-cleaner-8050-h-261248. I think it has been on an offer price recently. That would be OK for most 00 needs. Slightly off topic, but I was impressed when British Gas turned up with an ultrasonic cleaner to sort out a central heating problem. After about 3 hours treatment, the heat exchanger was working as good as new. That used citric acid poured into the heat exchanger as cleaner, with hot water in the bath. Dave 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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