Ultrasonic Cleaners

[ozzyo]

Hello all,

 

this is why I have my own pan for warming up the U/S/Cing solution.

 

The gray part of this page my help to understand about degasing.

 

In these three photos I'm degasing plain water, you can just about make out the bubbles in the water.

 

The water after I had given the tender a go in the clean water, after I had had it in cleaning solution.

 

OzzyO.

[Collett2251]

Hello.

A few hints and tips for all those using or thinking of using u/s cleaners, having spent more years than I care to remember in the silver and gold trade, u/s cleaners are a tool used every day. I have 2 u/s machines of commercial spec, 1 that is used daily that will accomodate a 4 mm loco, and 1 that is rarely used but could probably fit 5 or 6 7mm locos at once. (don't ask how much that one cost)!

Both are used heated, don't ask me what temperature but if you can just about bear to put your hand in it thats about right.

 

There are many u/s cleaning solutions on the market, but I have always used Fairy liquid (original) and ammonia, smells, but very effective, will work cold but the warmer the solution is the more effective it becomes. After cleaning a good rinse in clean tap water hot or cold will leave the surface clean enough for electroplating, so will also be clean enough to accept paint.

 

The plastic basket or tray assists you in removing parts but its main function is to protect the tank, metal parts coming into contact with the tank sides and bottom will cause damage to the machine.

 

U/S waves will travel through any material, when using for small parts a plastic sieve that floats on the surface works fine and will collect anything that decides to fall off.

 

Cellulose thinners and any other solvent can be used in a jam jar or similar placed into the u/s solution but not making contact with the tank itself, please be aware of the flashpoint of anything you use.

 

Always have an old toothbrush to hand to assist with stubborn deposits.

 

Prolonged exposure of u/s waves to your hands may cause damage to tissue but having used it as the best hand cleaner in the world for many years, nothing has fallen off......yet!

 

Hope this has been of some assistance.

 

Chris

[ozzyo]

Hello all,

 

I've just been down to Morrison's for a bit of shopping on my own, so I could have a good look at the bits for the kitchen (not for cooking) but what I could use in the workshop. Nylon tea strainers and sieves starting a £1.00, I already have that sort of stuff. But one thing did stand out to me. I don't know what it's called. so I will try and describe it as best as I can. It's like a small stainless steel sauce pan, about 3 1/2" dia. by about 2 1/2" high. But the base has a dozen or more approx. 3mm holes in it.

 

I was thinking about it on the way home, as it's metal the U/S waves will pass through it better than plastic. It would hold middle sized parts, probable up to a motor bogie may be a Co. As it has a handle you could lift it up and down as the cleaner is running.

 

I also thought that if you drilled three holes in the base and fitted 6BA nuts and bolts in them you would have short legs to keep it off the bottom of the tank.

 

OzzyO.

 

PS. I may get one next time I'm down there!!

[decauville1126]

I use a small ultrasonic tank for cleaning components as a kit build progresses. It's very handy for cleaning off 'greasy' fluxes such as Powerflow which I use exclusively these days for brass, whitemetal, and steel.

 

However prolonged cleaning can damage whitemetal parts, causing the surface to become sponge-like, and also I have noticed soldered brass wire joints coming apart with obvious signs of the same. So there may be some metallurgical activity where lead is present.

 

Priory Polishes do a range of ammonia-based fluids which can be let down with water in varying proportions, but I have found that leaving tarnished brass to just sit in the liquid for a few days brings it back to a bright finish - just the thing to remotivate when you rediscover that kit you started many years ago.

[ozzyo]

I've just been down to Morrison's for a bit of shopping on my own, so I could have a good look at the bits for the kitchen (not for cooking) but what I could use in the workshop. Nylon tea strainers and sieves starting a £1.00, I already have that sort of stuff. But one thing did stand out to me. I don't know what it's called. so I will try and describe it as best as I can. It's like a small stainless steel sauce pan, about 3 1/2" dia. by about 2 1/2" high. But the base has a dozen or more approx. 3mm holes in it.

PS. I may get one next time I'm down there!!

 

Hello all,

 

well I went down there to day and yes I bought one, the legs are fitted all I've got to do is give it a go. At £3.00 if it doesn't work I'll find a use for it.

 

OzzyO.

[gaf2u]

I have since received and tried out the one from Amazon for approx £88 or so, along with the recommended cleaning agent for an additional £8.

 

I'm afraid I am pretty disappointed. Tried it at the recommended concentration, for repeated periods up to the maximum on some of her jewelry, and one of my kits (separately of course). The result - will the jewelry looked no different, and some of the crud on it remained in situ. The kit - well some of the brass came out more tarnished than when it went in, and the whitemetal surface has a myriad of tiny pit marks on it. Nothing serious, but definitely not clean! The fluid was almost as clean coming out as when first put in too. BTW - there's no drain, so you have to invert the unit to empty it, which is messy! Maybe should have saved for longer and bought a better unit!

 

Any hints? This unit doesn't have a degassing function, so I'm not sure if this has a bearing on performance. Should I boil the water first prior to use?

 

Cheers

Gaf

[ozzyo]

Hello Gaf,

 

if you give me some answers to the following it may help.

 

1] did you use the fluid warm about 50 deg.

 

2] to degaus, run the U/S/C for about 5min. with out the basket in it.

 

3} what sort of cleaning fluid is it, acid or alkaline?

 

4] to empty the tank get a syphon tube to empty the tank..

 

I'll drop you a PM that has more on it as I'm falling asleep.

 

OzzyO.

[Sandy Harper]

Hi Gaf

I got the same model as you but from Maplins.

 

Used hot water and their cleaning fluid. A lot of muck came off but it did not remove all the green from left over Power flow flux. Two brass castings also fell off. I had another go using Fairy Liquid. Not much difference. I did not find a problem emptying the unit as it is so light you can just tip it over so that the fluid runs out the rear, as recommended.

 

I have not tried the degassing yet or OzzyO's Cilit Bang mix.

 

Regards

Sandy

[Siberian Snooper]

Hi

 

I have one which I got from Eilleens Emporiom, I first scrub the subject matter with Cif in the sink making sure the plugs in to catch the bits wot falls off first, once the models has been scrubbed and no bits fallen off, I the give it a couple of cycles in clean water temp set at about 50 Deg

 

 

The body work was cleaned to or three days before the photo was taken, the darl marks on the solebar are solder paint for the scroll irons. The bogie has not been cleaned.

 

HTH

 

SS

[billbedford]

well I went down there to day and yes I bought one, the legs are fitted all I've got to do is give it a go. At £3.00 if it doesn't work I'll find a use for it.

 

This is not a good idea. Because the whole sieve will vibrate the legs will act as mini-jack hammers and pit the tank. it is much better to spend a few minutes making wire hooks so that small pieces can be suspended in the middle of the tank.

[billbedford]

I'm afraid I am pretty disappointed. Tried it at the recommended concentration, for repeated periods up to the maximum on some of her jewelry, and one of my kits (separately of course). The result - will the jewelry looked no different, and some of the crud on it remained in situ. The kit - well some of the brass came out more tarnished than when it went in, and the whitemetal surface has a myriad of tiny pit marks on it. Nothing serious, but definitely not clean! The fluid was almost as clean coming out as when first put in too. BTW - there's no drain, so you have to invert the unit to empty it, which is messy! Maybe should have saved for longer and bought a better unit!

Any hints? This unit doesn't have a degassing function, so I'm not sure if this has a bearing on performance. Should I boil the water first prior to use?

Ultrasonics will only remove surface dirt, they cannot remove tarnish. Alkali solutions can tarnish brass, washing soda, for instance will turn brass black after about 20 minutes.

[billbedford]

Used hot water and their cleaning fluid. A lot of muck came off but it did not remove all the green from left over Power flow flux.

Nothing much removes that stuff. It's best not to let it form in the first place. What I do is put the model into a mug or bowl or such and pour boiling water, straight from the kettle, over it. Then let it drain while it still hot.

[Sandy Harper]

Thanks Bill. I stopped using Power Flow flux about two years ago when I discovered Copalux which leaves no trace what so ever. I used to get it from Focus but since they went bust I have been stuck for another local supplier. A few weeks ago I found that Wicks do their own flux, and I bought some, only to find it is the same as Powerflow Grrr! Any body want a large tub of the stuff?

Regards

Sandy

[Kenton]

Two brass castings also fell off.

 

Bits only fall off if they have not been soldered on correctly - so if they do it is just a good way of being pre-warned of the bits that may fall off later.

 

Powerflux - wouldn't touch the stuff, perhaps that is the reason why.

washing soda, for instance will turn brass black after about 20 minutes.

 

Just the product we need in the brass blackening thread ? Sounds like a winner. I have used it once, following a suggestion it should be used to clean brass

[Sandy Harper]

Strangely some people get on with it OK. Derek Mundy uses it, mixed with water, to solder his signals and I found it OK until I got fed up with the green residue. Copalux is a 'Vaseline' type substance, as opposed to the cream consistency of Power Flow and leaves no residue.

 

Sandy

[billbedford]

Coplalux and Power Flow seem to be very similar products - Basically Hydrobromic acid in a soap carrier.

[gaf2u]

OzzyO

Answers to your questions:

1] did you use the fluid warm about 50 deg. - Yes, charged unit with water off the boil, and it has an onboard heater too.

 

2] to degaus, run the U/S/C for about 5min. with out the basket in it. - Thanks, will try this next time

 

3} what sort of cleaning fluid is it, acid or alkaline? - James Products Sea Clean, pH approx 2.5 (acidic) so doesn't explain the tarnishing per Bill and the other posters, who suggest that alkalinity may be my problem

 

4] to empty the tank get a syphon tube to empty the tank.. - Fair point, my gripe was simply that it is messy tipping the unit over, especially if you ant to collect the fluid for reuse (even with the help of a funnel)

 

 

Fancy trying Copalus if I can find some over here

Cheers

Gaf

[ozzyo]

OzzyO

Answers to your questions:

3} what sort of cleaning fluid is it, acid or alkaline? - James Products Sea Clean, pH approx 2.5 (acidic) so doesn't explain the tarnishing per Bill and the other posters, who suggest that alkalinity may be my problem

Cheers

Gaf

 

Hello Gaf all,

 

I use a cleaner called Citranox, it's citric acid based.

 

The body just out of the grit blaster, it may have had a quick wash in red Cillit Bang (acid).

 

Later on it went into the U/S Cleaner. Clean but a bit stained. All I want is clean. The staining does not matter, it wont show through the paint. I've never seen a photo of a loco running in the UK looking like a brass loco.

 

OzzyO.

 

Edit; to add a PS. Gaf you have a PM.

Edited May 23, 2012 by ozzyo

[ozzyo]

Bump

[R A Watson]

 

Nothing much removes that stuff. It's best not to let it form in the first place. What I do is put the model into a mug or bowl or such and pour boiling water, straight from the kettle, over it. Then let it drain while it still hot.

 

Thanks to Ozzy I have just come across this thread so this reply is somewhat late.

 

Powerflow flux(and similar) can be dissolved with I P A after soldering just apply and agitate with a cotton bud or piece of Scoth Brite and then wipe off with kitchen towel. Any residue you miss will fall into the bottom of the U S cleaner.

 

Wally

[DonB]

For lightly tarnished Brass items, others have used that well known drink "Coca-Cola" . (not the diet variety so I'm told.) No connection with the producers, don't have any shares and I don't even drink the stuff!

I'm told it has a low Phosphoric Acid content.

[tender]

Thanks for bumping this thread Ozzyo. Lots of useful stuff here.

 

[ozzyo]

Hello all,

 

has any one used caustic soda in their U/C? I'm just giving it a go at removing some paint off a set of frames.

 

OzzyO.

[N15class]

Hello all,

 

has any one used caustic soda in their U/C? I'm just giving it a go at removing some paint off a set of frames.

 

OzzyO.

Costic will take the paint off anyway. I presume it does not eat stainless steal.

[ozzyo]

Costic will take the paint off anyway. I presume it does not eat stainless steal.

 

I hope not, as I've just had a go, will let all of you know later how I get on. I do know that it will eat aluminium and very quickly.

 

OzzyO.