RMweb Premium MJI Posted March 23, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 23, 2012 I have been modelling for ages, but my weak spot has always been painting. Tried brushes, aerosols (Precision), and airbrushes. So far seems to be best if sprayed in garden. But the finish is still a bit lumpy. My air brushes are all the cheap glass bottle ones - I have a new one to try but it only fits my compressor - which is too heavy to move from the garage. I have a one coat of blue covered sp far Lima 117 DMS next to me. Sprayed with aerosol. Some lumps (hopefully wet & dry smoothable), and the whole finish is just not quite smooth. I do tend to use Precision paints for historical reasons ( the factory was in Churchdown, where I went to school ). Next question is lining, how do I get a straight white line ect on the side of a coach, my repaints always look a little wobbly unfortunately. Anyway I have a big pile of DMUs to paint and I want a good finish, will even be stripping B430 as the paint is too lumpy and that is of course in chocolate & cream. As this is letting my modelling down I want to get a lot better. Thanks Martin Kit list A few Precision aerosols, quite a few Precision tins including large ones of blue & grey. Humbrol style air brushes with one can of propellant. Aldi compressor with model air brush as well as the car spray kit (I managed my bumper until someone drove into it). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Hi there, Getting a good finish when painting is not a single secret but a whole load of small things. You mentioned a "lumpy" finish after spray painting. This is often a sign of insufficient pressure in the aerosol. I have to say that i have not been greatly impressed by aerosols marketed as specific rail colours. The colour match may be good but the aerosol is usually pretty poor. I tend to use Halfords car paints now as these give a reliable good finish. The gloss finish is also perfect for applying transfers to. Once the tranfers are dry, I varnish them and then seal the whole model with a matt or satin varnish to give a uniform finish. I favour Testors Dullcote for this job but others may prefer something a bit more satin. There was a pretty good list on RMWeb3 of which car paint colours match which railway shades. Unfortunately it seems to be inaccessible at the moment so I have appended the list to the end of this post. For lining, I tend to use lining transfers. The easiest way I have found to get these reliably straight is to use masking tape to provide a straight edge. Tamiya model masking tape about 9mm wide or more is fairly sturdy and is great for providing a straight edge to work to. Simply position it just above or below the position of the lining and brush the lining transfers up against it. Once they are dry, remove the tape. Here is an example of a GWR K40 BG in lined maroon using Halfords car paint and lining transfers and masking tape. See what you think. MR/LMS/BR red Rover damask red GWR/BR loco green Rover Brooklands green GWR/BR loco green Ford laurel green BR diesel light green band Ford highland green BR coach carmine Ford rosso red BR coach cream Vauxhall gazelle beige BR coach cream (well worn) Peugeot antelope beige BR diesel blue VW Pargas blue BR steam loco blue Peugeot royal blue BR loco yellow warning panel Vauxhall mustard yellow LNER garter blue/BR diesel blue, but slightly more blue Ford fjord blue, less green LNER garter blue VW Pargas blue LMS Coronation Blue Rover Pageant mid-blue Stanier Coronation blue Peugeot royal blue GWR or Pullman coach brown Rover russet brown GWR coach cream Rover Primula yellow SR dark olive green Land Rover Coniston green LNWR/LYR coach plum lower panels Daewoo dark red LNWR coach bluey-white upper panels Daewoo Casablanca white CR steam loco Peugeot royal blue SDJR blue Rover midnight blue CR dark blue Rover midnight blue Stroudley LBSCR ochre BMC tan LBSCR umber Vauxhall Brazil brown N.Staffs maroon Vauxhall Gambia red NER coach red Vauxhall Gambia red LYR coach upper panels Plastikote nut brown Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I would say, forget normal primer paints. Spray with U-POL Acid #8 Etch Primer from Halfords and leave in a warmish place for an hour. Then spray on Halford car paint ater choosing a match for the railway colour you require (Karhedron gives a comprehensive listing above). The surface finish you obtain should end up as good as the surface you started with. My equipment is a compressor and pro spraygun so there is no point in mentioning how I go about things, but I do use U-POL #8 etch primer airosils and the stuff is reliable on brass and plastic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Place cans in hot not boiling water for a couple of minutes after shaking can for a good period . This will improve finish Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark 37 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 0.5mm to 5mm lining can be found here http://www.alwayshobbies.com/Model-Boats/Flags,-Decals-$4-Lettering/Vinyl-Lining-$4-Sheets/Becc-Vinyl-Lining-Tape-Narrow-0$35-$9-5mm.ice the company (BECC) produce different colours. If you are determined to do it with paint use Tamiya masking tape. When applied run a wet finger along edges. Someone gave me that tip a few years ago and it seems to work. Lumpy paint, as above not enough pressure another cause is paint not mixed properly. Best regards, Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted March 24, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 24, 2012 Thanks all My rail blue aerosol is useless - paint is very bumpy - DMU is covered in modelstrip. I have the car prmer already somewhere, tempted to paint everything Vauxhall Star Silver 2 as I have a lot of it!!!! Is the blue mentioned Rail Blue?, also any matches for Rail Grey? The aerosol was not very well pressured, but it sprayed W1953, E1883, and my 128 OK. I MAY try an airbrush and 50 50 mix white spirit and paint and see what happens before I go to Halfords and try to look anonomous buying colours from strange cars. Strange I can paint metallics on cars but rail models - none of mine are great. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 The paint mix for the air brush sould be like milk, a ratio is ok if the paints all start from the same consistency. also it could be your pressure to low. I do not like white spirit for thinning. It does not evaporate quick enough for my liking. Use the thinners for the paint or celulose. Do nice light coats do not try to cover in one go, it will not work. I always warm the model to be painted, not to much with plastic or whitemetal. Straight lines are the easy bit to do. If you set the coach etc up on the table, with a pile of books or a block of wood at each end the same height as the model. This will hold your ruler with no bits dangling around and every thing steady. Then it is easy to draw your line with a bow pen and quite thick gloss paint. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted March 24, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 24, 2012 The paint mix for the air brush sould be like milk, a ratio is ok if the paints all start from the same consistency. also it could be your pressure to low. I do not like white spirit for thinning. It does not evaporate quick enough for my liking. Use the thinners for the paint or celulose. Do nice light coats do not try to cover in one go, it will not work. I always warm the model to be painted, not to much with plastic or whitemetal. Straight lines are the easy bit to do. If you set the coach etc up on the table, with a pile of books or a block of wood at each end the same height as the model. This will hold your ruler with no bits dangling around and every thing steady. Then it is easy to draw your line with a bow pen and quite thick gloss paint. OK I will be spraying enamel, what is the best thinner? I have white spirits and some cellulose thinners. Near to Halfords and Homebase. Will be spraying polystyrene models I know cellulose is OK on ABS (bumper). Just need to find the Aldi fit airbrush kit and my receiver dryer. Bow pens - this sounds scary, not sure if I could manage the thin white lines on a blue grey vehicle, but then I brush lined a Ratio 4w GWR coach - just not that great. Thanks Martin BTW I hope no one thinks I am silly for asking so much, just that even after over 30 years I still want to get better, I know I am not too old to learn as I am software developer. I know I will never be as good as a lot you see in the press I just don't want to be embarrassed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted March 24, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 24, 2012 I definately am worried about trying to line in GWR BR(W) lining as I have my first 117 to repaint as it looks pants, brush marks on it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 On plastic it is best not to use celulose. Bow pens are not that scary I had an old cheap one for many years that I had honed down to a finer point, there is a piece on here somewhere about it I thick not by me though. GWR/BR is a bit tricky just needs to be done slowly. The Rathbone book is worth getting. tells you all about it better than I can. spray a sheet of plast or the side of a gallon can and practise your linning on ther it doesn't matter then if it is not good. Don't be worried about asking questions we all have had to learn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted March 25, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 25, 2012 I thought paint thinners was white spirits. Cellulose then is too harse, I'll have a nose around Homebase then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted March 25, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 25, 2012 OK I have done some tests the Aldi airbrush is a bit rubbish so I will see if my Humbol one will fit the adaptor. I dunk tested a Lima bodysheel section (brake section from the DMS conversion) into cellulose thinners and all was OK.It even washes off the Lima ink. I am going to risk cellulose thinners if it mixes OK with enamels, I'll test on a bit of wood or something to make sure it doesn't seperate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I thought paint thinners was white spirits. Cellulose then is too harse, I'll have a nose around Homebase then. It thins paint but is not a thinners. I just use it for cleaning out my airbrush and paint brushes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted March 31, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 31, 2012 Well got soem Precision thinners and it all sprays well. Just worried now about the white stripes for the next conversion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Well got soem Precision thinners and it all sprays well. Just worried now about the white stripes for the next conversion. Glad that you managed to spray OK using thinners. The lines you are talking about are they white stripes or are they very thin? They both can be done but they need to be done differently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted March 31, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 31, 2012 Well I have the following to do. A few 4mm scale blue grey stock with the thin line between colours. B430 mock GWR scheme A couple of Ratio LNWR coaches I have bought the 2 tins to do. I have coaches I do not have locos to use with! Bit of a coach obsessive - I even have a web site full of coach info. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I find for coaches a bow pen and thick enamel paint will draw you nice fine lines. If you are not happy with doing it like that, there are transfers from the likes of Fox and HMRS. I take it the western liveryis the BR one withgream at the top and brown at the bottom divided by 2 coach lines? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Richard_A Posted April 1, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 1, 2012 just out of interest, which of the two versions of br diesel blue would be the best for a freshly painted loco? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meil Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 I suggest you buy: “A Modeller's Handbook of Painting and Lining†by Ian Rathbone, Published by Wild Swan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted April 1, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 1, 2012 just out of interest, which of the two versions of br diesel blue would be the best for a freshly painted loco? I have used Precisison paints since they were based very near my old school. Visited the factory on numerous occasions Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruciethefish Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 If you can master the use of a bowpen, you'll never look back.. The real key is lots of practice, & a fairly decent instrument in the first place;- you'll struggle with a cheap one, & become frustrated, so the best bet is to pick up a vintage one, or a quality vintage drawing instrument set. As far as spraying goes, the better airbrushes are the gravity-fed, internal mix types which give you control over air/paint mix with a single button. I use one that cost about 30 quid on ebay, with precision paints & their quick air-dry thinners, & usually get a great finish every time... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted April 10, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 10, 2012 I'll have a look for a cheap good one then. Bow pens however do sound scary Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimleygrid Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 0.5mm to 5mm lining can be found here http://www.alwayshob...0$35-$9-5mm.ice the company (BECC) produce different colours. Thanks for posting the link Mark, that lining might just be what I have been looking for to help with my inspection platforms. Thanks again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 between every coat of paint a dry green scouring cloth used gently is good for smoothing and giving a key for the next coat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark 37 Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Thanks for posting the link Mark, that lining might just be what I have been looking for to help with my inspection platforms. Thanks again. There are a couple of manufacturers out there doing the same thing (check out some of the model boat websites like http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2ecornwallmodelboats%2eco%2euk%2f&WD=lining&PN=becc%2dvinyl%2dlining%2dnarrow%2ehtml%23aB_2dVLNS#aB_2dVLNS ) I just thought it would let people know what can be found. Regards, Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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