LHP Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Just a word of caution, the Ryders Green flight is not typical of the common BCN lock type, it has seen many changes over the years, some have second hand equipment and are varied in construction. The best flight to study for a common locks used in the BCN area is the Rushall flight. The Ryders Green flight saw some of the last proper traffic in the sixties with a mixture of long distance and local day boats passing through. Today it is kept smart but needs badly dredging, our working boat draws 3ft 3" and we have grounded out near Azda too many times! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyP Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Laurence, don't you have a DVD which includes colour cine film of a Thomas Clayton Tar boat working through these locks in the 60's? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted October 14, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 14, 2012 from Wikipedia The designation "skunk works", or "skunkworks", is widely used in business, engineering, and technical fields to describe a group within an organization given a high degree of autonomy and unhampered by bureaucracy, tasked with working on advanced or secret projects. Oooh that sounds special! Not sure about BCB being a secret project.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted October 14, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 14, 2012 Dundas Sidings has 25 levers Looks like an interesting location, judging by the diagram here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LHP Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 (edited) Laurence, don't you have a DVD which includes colour cine film of a Thomas Clayton Tar boat working through these locks in the 60's? Hi, Yes I do! "Working Boats" vol 2. There is a whole colour sequence mainly took on the 8 locks showing Thos Clayton's motor tanker "Towy" taking gas tar from Walsall gas works up the flight, also there is a horse drawn open joey boat converted from a Fellows, Morton & Clayton butty. Film was shot in the early 1960's. Edited October 14, 2012 by LHP Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted October 14, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 14, 2012 Here's a rear view of Latchford (20 levers) taken 22/8/1982. Really useful detail there; the small windows in the rear are interesting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted October 14, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2012 Really useful detail there; the small windows in the rear are interesting. Yes, IIRC they were normally positioned so the top of the windows was about level with the top of the door to the underportion. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LHP Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 One other thing about the flght not obvious to the passing eye is that the turnover bridge acessing the Ridgeacre branch which was at the top lock is gone. The abutments remain but the bridge itself can now be seen spanning the entrance arm of canal at the Black Country Museum. Quite why British Waterways removed a bridge in use on a usable canal still remains a mystery! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinWalsh Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Oooh that sounds special! Special Layout Services coming to an embassy near you soon LOL Seriously though, looking forward to meeting you and the crew next weekend and having chance to chin-wag over the 2 days. (Tescos have been alerted to your amourous cravings for products of a pa$$$y persuasion) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted October 14, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2012 I will look through the plans I have with me, I've got drawings of a composite box, not sure if I've got the all timber. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted October 14, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 14, 2012 A few more, before I start with some photos of the build: Canley Halt - nice close up detail of the barge boards and finials Four Oaks Shilton Winson Green Junc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted October 14, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2012 Charlie's Cabin First a bit of history. I can't quite claim to be a Black Country Kid, although some of my ancestors lived in West Bromwich about 200 years ago. I was born in Harborne, once part of Staffordshire but now firmly within Birmingham. From the time of the Industrial Revolution it was a village where the main occupations were agriculture and nail making. It lay just a couple of miles from Boulton and Watt's Soho Foundry but probably never got industrialised because it was directly on the path of the prevailing winds going towards the area of Edgbaston where the posh people lived, and they wouldn't have wanted factory smoke blowing towards them. We lived with my paternal grandparents. Charlie joined the LNWR in 1919 after leaving the army. He had joined up at 15, was back in England at 16 after being wounded at Aubers Ridge, then when he got to the official joining up age was sent back to France where he remained to the end of the war. In 1947 he became the Signal Linesman for the Proof House district, based at the cabin in the picture. He remained in that job until New St PSB was commissioned then stayed on to complete the installation of the signalling for Curzon St Parcels Depot. He finally retired after 49 years service. A second family connection is with Curzon St itself. When I was researching family history my mother didn't have a lot of information about her paternal grandfather. By the time her father was born the family lived in Kings Heath. With a bit of delving through BMD records I found that her great grandfather had lived in Curzon St and that her grandfather was born there, about 200 yards from the site where Charlie's cabin later stood. Enough of the family history for now, I will add a bit more as time goes on. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted October 14, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 14, 2012 And so, to construction. The kit comes with detailed instructions and drawings, which is useful as I know very little about signal boxes and even less about the LNWR (who's idea was it that I built this?). The kit includes the parts for the operating floor, and a drawing showing both brick and timber bases. The build starts with folding up the perimeter of the floor. Barge boards had been folded and added to each end and the holes for the handrails drilled out. Assembly then commences with adding the four sides to the floor perimeter and adding the corner posts: I couldn't resist cutting a block of timber to make a temporary base 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckingham Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Mark Don't know if this is of interest, photos of a signal box from the London Road kit, built by my friend Tony Winterson, for an EM model of Buckingham LNWR (the real one) and a photo of the real thing. It was burnt down in the 1930s and rebuilt by the LMS with a different top so the later photos of the branch aren't so helpful. He had to do a 'cut and shut' job on the ends to match the real one, guess you won't need to do that. This also has a brick base as its not on an embankment. It will be interesting trying to match the etched timber sides with a plasticard section beneath? 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted October 15, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 15, 2012 Mark Don't know if this is of interest, photos of a signal box from the London Road kit, built by my friend Tony Winterson, for an EM model of Buckingham LNWR (the real one) and a photo of the real thing. It was burnt down in the 1930s and rebuilt by the LMS with a different top so the later photos of the branch aren't so helpful. He had to do a 'cut and shut' job on the ends to match the real one, guess you won't need to do that. This also has a brick base as its not on an embankment. It will be interesting trying to match the etched timber sides with a plasticard section beneath? That's very nice. Having studied the kit I decided not to give the team the option of swapping the ends around on ours! Yes, currently considering the options for the planking detail on the base - any suggestions gratefully received. Nice interior detail there too - what is the best source for a suitable lever frame and other interior details? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted October 15, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 15, 2012 Nice interior detail there too - what is the best source for a suitable lever frame and other interior details? The lever frame is a quandary, it really needs the LNWR tumbler frame which has stirrup handles, and as there are only 25 levers it might be worth going to the extra effort to scratch-build a correct fame... The block shelf should be fairly easy to knock up out of bits and pieces 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted October 15, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 15, 2012 A fresh diagram for a 25 lever frame Please note - I have had to lose the disc protecting the crossover, this move will now be controlled by hand signals The means the colours of the levers are Y = Yellow, R = Red, B = Black Y R R* R R R B B B R R R R B B R ^ R B R R R R R* R Y R* = Red with white band indicating line clear release (in this case) 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted October 15, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 15, 2012 A fresh diagram for a 25 lever frame Please note - I have had to lose the disc protecting the crossover, this move will now be controlled by hand signals Very prototypical for an LNW box where they ran out of levers. Alternatively there were a few 'selected' disc signals about where two signals were worked by one lever, the one that cleared depending on the lie of the points. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted October 15, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) Based on the photo and my recollections of 45 years ago, I have produced a quick sketch of how the cabin looked. It isn't 100% accurate as I don't know the exact size, but am doing some calculations based on the fact that it was put up by the Signal Box Construction Gang, and would have probably been done using what was to hand at the time. I know of several cabins used by S&T staff in the area at the time, every one was different and mainly built from signal box upper portion panels. Edited October 16, 2012 by TheSignalEngineer 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Gringo Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Hello Eric, Thank you very much for taking such an interest in the Black Country Blues project and thanks for not only the taking the time to tell us the history of "Charlie's Cabin", but agreeing to build it for the layout. Fantastic. Now I have some facts that may (or may not!) be of use regarding the cabin. I have some Staffordshire Blue ridge tiles on the roof of my shed nine of them in fact. The nine measure 156", making them 18" each. So seven of mine would be 126". Given the overhang at the eaves, which we could estimate as a good half a ridge tile at each end, the measurement for the front of the box would then be close to 108"? I'm guessing that if the two corner posts are 7" each (14" in total) and the eight window panes (estimated at 10" each) gives us another 80"; they're seperated by 4 centre vertical glazing bars (1" each) say another 4" and five vertical framing sections (are around 2" each), which in total adds another 10"; this then also gives an overall front measurement of 108". Hope this helps and welcome aboard, All the very best, John 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted October 15, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 15, 2012 Very prototypical for an LNW box where they ran out of levers. Alternatively there were a few 'selected' disc signals about where two signals were worked by one lever, the one that cleared depending on the lie of the points. I thought about selection but it wasn't a common LNWR thing, additionally I didn't want to make things complicated for the builder of the point rodding (but I have photos of selection gear if anyone wants to try and make a working model), so I've left Mark with the conundrum of how to motorise the bobby to wave from the window ... Mark - the LNWR built frames on girders, a girder could only take 18 levers so there will be a gap between levers 18 and 19 - I'll try and find a photo for you. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted October 15, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 15, 2012 Oddly enough, a colleague who now lives in Uckfield coined my moniker Old Dudders a bit more than 40 years ago. He was a career railwayman - as was his father, who retired as Station Manager at London Bridge. Not sure Keith is much into modelling, though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted October 15, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 15, 2012 Hi John, Based on the assumed 7" corner posts which were standard on LMS signal boxes of the period and 3 1/2" planking of the Midland signal box, those dimensions would be about right. There are slightly fewer vertical planks than on a 10' signal box panel, so I had estimated 94" between the inner faces of the corner posts. I had guessed from some other stuff that the ridge tiles would be 18" so your shed roof gives confirmation of that. Having a fixed dimension will hopefully corroborated some of the other assumptions. I have some pieces of ridge tile but there are two different angles, so I need to try to work out some of the other dimensions to get which one they are. I'm going to crank up the old projector after dark and try to get a better look at it on the wall. Eric 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted October 15, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 15, 2012 ...didn't want to make things complicated for the builder of the point rodding.... sounds like a job for Gringo 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indomitable026 Posted October 15, 2012 Author Share Posted October 15, 2012 sounds like a job for Gringo Yes! He's good at rodding Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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