Model Rail Limited Editions news

[the-gog]

obviously the real unit isn't around anymore to compare to so lets just say "time clouds our memory" therefore many people will remember seeing 55993 in this livery, right down to the same shade of blue being correct (even the bloke who painted the real unit and collected the paint tins from the stores says it's correct but what did he know!!), i mean its not a million miles off is it?

Yes it is. It's miles off. I've shown the photos to various people who saw it in the flesh in the 80s, and the response is the same - it's in no way accurate. Take a look at all the photos out there of it. Can you find one that shows it in the colour that Heljan have painted it in? No, because it's wrong. I and many others ordered it blind in the hope that it would be right. The product is not as described. It was advertised as being in the 1980s Red Star Express Parcels livery. It isn't, so it's a breach of contract. The analogies of ordering a sofa in dark blue only for it to be delivered in light blue stands.

 

I emailed Model Rail about it, together with the photos. I've had no reply. It's not good enough.

[the-gog]

If an item has been advertised as being in a livery, the purchaser has not had an opportunity to examine the product and it is delivered in a different livery there is a breach of a fundamental term of the contract. The purchaser should be entitled to a full refund of the purchase price and postage so he is in the same financial position as he was before the purchase was made. There are a number of legal judgements supporting this on the subjects of cars being delivered in the wrong colour, external pipes being painted the wrong colour and textiles being delivered in the wrong colour.

^^^^^^^ Yes yes yes.

[The Stationmaster]

If an item has been advertised as being in a livery, the purchaser has not had an opportunity to examine the product and it is delivered in a different livery there is a breach of a fundamental term of the contract. The purchaser should be entitled to a full refund of the purchase price and postage so he is in the same financial position as he was before the purchase was made. There are a number of legal judgements supporting this on the subjects of cars being delivered in the wrong colour, external pipes being painted the wrong colour and textiles being delivered in the wrong colour.

But how does the purchaser know if the livery is or isn't correct?  He/she will surely only really know that if they have a good colour memory of the car as it was when freshly painted (don't forget blue is also very susceptible to weathering and its appearance on railway vehicles can be affected by cleaning methods).

[the-gog]

Not really surprising. Kernow won't comment - it's not their place to do so. Model Rail has commented in so far as my post 531. I don't have anything to add, other than the fact that I work for Model Rail Monday-Wednesday, so the earliest I will see any e-mails is next week. I'm currently dealing with these comments in my own time. I have checked with one of my colleagues and my understanding regarding the returns policy is this:

If the item is received damaged or faulty (ie, loose, broken parts or defective mechanism) and you decide to take a refund rather than a replacement, then you are entitled to a refund of of your return postage.

If you decide you don't want the item (ie because you don't like the colour) you are entitled to return the model for a refund of the cost of the model but not refund of the return postage.

I trust this clarifies the matter.

CHRIS LEIGH

Chris, how about other people from MR posting on here instead? It would be nice for one of them to reply to my email. This item is faulty in that it isn't as described. Are you actually satisfied with the colour?? It doesn't match any prototype photo I can find of 55993, but it matches Provincial light blue very nicely. Those of us who pre-ordered it have been sold a dud, and we're not happy about it. One of my friends who rememberes seeing it all the time back in the 80s - and photographed it - is scathing about it. So, how is this going to be rectified? It would be nice if the error was acknowledged, at the very least, but I suspect that the only answer I'm going to get is that MR are confident it's correct, when the photographic evidence demonstrates that it isn't. I feel very sore that I've been ripped off for £140 for something that isn't right.

 

RWJ

[big jim]

It was advertised as being in the 1980s Red Star Express Parcels livery. It isn't

 

I emailed Model Rail about it, together with the photos. I've had no reply. It's not good enough.

 

i'm not disagreeing with you that its incorrect but others will no doubt be happy with it as it stands, HOWEVER now you say it was advertised as above i can understand why you are so frustrated, admittedly i did think the prototype numbered unit (55993) was chosen BECAUSE it had a non standard lighter top half and embellishments compared to the rest of the fleet

 

i do however think you are overgeneralizing when you say "Those of us who pre-ordered it have been sold a dud, and we're not happy about it" it should read "SOME of us who pre-ordered it FEEL LIKE WE have been sold a dud, and we're not happy about it" most will open the box and be chuffed to mintballs with their purchase, possibly blissfully unaware its incorrect, or possibly because they are not really that fussed, personally i'd most likely be in the not that fussed category

 

 

[dibber25]

Yes it is. It's miles off. I've shown the photos to various people who saw it in the flesh in the 80s, and the response is the same - it's in no way accurate. Take a look at all the photos out there of it. Can you find one that shows it in the colour that Heljan have painted it in? No, because it's wrong. I and many others ordered it blind in the hope that it would be right. The product is not as described. It was advertised as being in the 1980s Red Star Express Parcels livery. It isn't, so it's a breach of contract. The analogies of ordering a sofa in dark blue only for it to be delivered in light blue stands.

 

I emailed Model Rail about it, together with the photos. I've had no reply. It's not good enough.

Look at post 597. You have had a reply there including an explanation as to why you haven't heard by e-mail from Model Rail. I assume you e-mailed me? I'm not there on Thursdays and Fridays. Richard tells me that he's received no e-mail, so who did you send it to? I've also explained in post 597 the policy on returns. If your model is damaged you can reclaim your postage. (I've had seven 128s - three review samples, two I've bought, and two samples of the limited edition. All have had loose parts, so a reclaim of postage on that basis should be straightforward enough. If you have some problem with that, please PM me. There's no need to shout from the rooftops - I had to check the returns policy before I responded and it took a little time.

CHRIS LEIGH

PS

Your further posting while I was writing this. What other people do you want to post on here? Ben, who commissioned the model, is no longer with Model Rail. George works from home and isn't involved with limited editions. Richard is busy producing the magazine and getting to grips with the day-to-day magazine operation. I work part-time. While we list lots of other people in regard to magazine design, distribution etc, none of them is involved with limited editions or has subject knowledge of DMUS. I'm sorry you didn't get an immediate response to your e-mail (wherever you sent it to) but the issue with the shade of blue has only (so far as I am aware) been rtaised on RMweb and I have attempted to deal with it on RMweb. Now, I'd quite like to go cook my dinner.

[the-gog]

i'm not disagreeing with you that its incorrect but others will no doubt be happy with it as it stands, HOWEVER now you say it was advertised as above i can understand why you are so frustrated, admittedly i did think the prototype numbered unit (55993) was chosen BECAUSE it had a non standard lighter top half and embellishments compared to the rest of the fleet

 

i do however think you are overgeneralizing when you say "Those of us who pre-ordered it have been sold a dud, and we're not happy about it" it should read "SOME of us who pre-ordered it FEEL LIKE WE have been sold a dud, and we're not happy about it" most will open the box and be chuffed to mintballs with their purchase, possibly blissfully unaware its incorrect, or possibly because they are not really that fussed, personally i'd most likely be in the not that fussed category

 

 

I'm sorry, but trying to pretend that light cyan is mid blue is so far off the mark, it's not funny. How would you feel if you'd ordered a ltd edition of 4472 in Apple Green only for it to be released in fluorescent green instead? Do you put up with it? I certainly wouldn't.

 

A reply from a P4 modeller friend of mine who photographed it at the time:

 

"I think you are quite right to remonstrate about the incorrect shade of blue. It would take some effort to repaint that panel and then you'd have to source and apply the appropriate transfers again. Not good and I'm curious as to what remedial measures Heljan / Model Rail can apply apart from recalling and reworking all 300 of the units.

 

I've bought stuff in the past from KMR and found them to be very helpful and offer great customer service. However as you point out, when you order something that hasn't been released and expect it to be accurate and it isn't, then it is reasonable to return the good and ask for a refund."

 

RWJ

[the-gog]

Look at post 597. You have had a reply there including an explanation as to why you haven't heard by e-mail from Model Rail. I assume you e-mailed me? I'm not there on Thursdays and Fridays. Richard tells me that he's received no e-mail, so who did you send it to? I've also explained in post 597 the policy on returns. If your model is damaged you can reclaim your postage. (I've had seven 128s - three review samples, two I've bought, and two samples of the limited edition. All have had loose parts, so a reclaim of postage on that basis should be straightforward enough. If you have some problem with that, please PM me. There's no need to shout from the rooftops - I had to check the returns policy before I responded and it took a little time.

CHRIS LEIGH

I emailed modelrail [at] bauermedia.co.uk which is the email address on MR's website.

 

I'm sorry, but I will continue to shout from the rooftops. It's not correct but until someone from MR admits to the mistake, we're going round in circles here. I am sorely disappointed, as it's this very model that I've been waiting several years for, as it was local to me.

 

RWJ

[big jim]

i suppose time will tell with it in the long run, if they still have 200 of them in 2 years time selling at a knock down price then we will know it was a dud in everyone's eyes, if they sell the lot in 6 months with very few returns for "inaccurate livery" then its been a successful release!

 

personally i like the standard release royal mail red one!!

[big jim]

It's not correct but until someone from MR admits to the mistake.........

 

[dibber25]

Sorry, not funny.

[the-gog]

Fantastic! I've got dinner to cook - a nice bit of cold pork with crackling after yesterday's roast pork, with dauphinoise potatoes and some peas.

 

PS memegenerator.net is great, isn't it? I use it as an app on my phone.

[big jim]

Sorry, not funny.

 

sorry chris, trying to diffuse the situation!!

 

(just tried to PM you but you cant accept any more messages apparenty)

[BR(S)]

Obviously there is disappointment from people who think the paint job is incorrect on this model they've been looking forward to, but a refund has been offered for those who want to return it, so I think an accusation of a "rip off" is extremely unfair. 

 

Regarding the postage, Chris Leigh has made clear Model Rail's position in post #597.

 

I don't speak on behalf of Model Rail but I think a repaint or new body for the 300 models is unlikely.  I have an opinion on the paint job but am after a blue or Royal Mail one myself!

[dibber25]

I emailed modelrail [at] bauermedia.co.uk which is the email address on MR's website.

 

I'm sorry, but I will continue to shout from the rooftops. It's not correct but until someone from MR admits to the mistake, we're going round in circles here. I am sorely disappointed, as it's this very model that I've been waiting several years for, as it was local to me.

 

RWJ

Well, I've tried to be helpful. I've told you how to get a refund. 

CHRIS LEIGH

[GordonC]

So was 59993 repainted at some point when it carried that livery from the lighter colour blue to a darker one?

 

Surely the colours didn't darken that much with weathering or the paint aging as they do look significantly different between the model and the various photos posted here. And if MR has consulted the guy who actually painted it and he thought it looked right then I guess there isn't much more MR can do. It isn't what I expected when I heard it was being released but I hope it doesn't put MR off commissioning other Limited Edition models.

[Pedro32]

I for one cannot wait to receive my DPU in this unusual livery. I will also be getting my unit weathered to to give it that careworn effect. I plan to make it look like it was back in the day:-

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/queenfanjohn/6581763673/sizes/l/in/photolist-b2Bg32-bdWnSx-bdWmuD-bZBa9m-dV9fwn-ikLm2Q-ijQFQN-kj7xTH-kj7qbi-eegzzr-e8SNgf-9vxo9V-b2BgiX-gBXZ31-fFzDgF-9HVxDk-fb1yqQ/

 

 The origins of the colour scheme was referenced in post #531 and I'm happy with that. I'm sorry there is some disappointment. I support MR for making those unusual rolling stock items more accessible.

[BR(S)]

I for one cannot wait to receive my DPU in this unusual livery. I will also be getting my unit weathered to to give it that careworn effect. I plan to make it look like it was back in the day:-

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/queenfanjohn/6581763673/sizes/l/in/photolist-b2Bg32-bdWnSx-bdWmuD-bZBa9m-dV9fwn-ikLm2Q-ijQFQN-kj7xTH-kj7qbi-eegzzr-e8SNgf-9vxo9V-b2BgiX-gBXZ31-fFzDgF-9HVxDk-fb1yqQ/

 

We're all familiar of course with how different colours can look in pictures due to lighting and so on, but compare that 1987 photo to this one from 1986.  Certainly looks like a change in the colour scheme in that time, although I don't know if that's the case of course or just due to photo-related factors:

 

http://www.rigalleries.com/RailwayImageGalleries/Classes-100-to-128/i-BRrJrvJ

 

(I should just add that I'm putting this here out of interest rather than to add to the debate).

[the-gog]

We're all familiar of course with how different colours can look in pictures due to lighting and so on, but compare that 1987 photo to this one from 1986.  Certainly looks like a change in the colour scheme in that time, although I don't know if that's the case of course or just due to photo-related factors:

 

http://www.rigalleries.com/RailwayImageGalleries/Classes-100-to-128/i-BRrJrvJ

 

(I should just add that I'm putting this here out of interest rather than to add to the debate).

No, there was no change in colour scheme. 55993 never ran in the livery that MR have commissioned it in, because it's incorrect. Oh, for the record, just because I can get a "full refund" (which means that it's doubtful my postage will be refunded) doesn't mean I haven't been ripped off. We were promised this model in one colour scheme,and were supplied something different. That's unacceptable. If people have difficulty in grasping that concept, then it proves the adage that fools and their money are easily parted.

 

RWJ

[Dan Griffin]

At risk of being shot at but maybe, just maybe, if the 'incorrect' livery bothers people that much, invest in a small pot of paint and correct it. I think it's called modelling. I may be wrong. But having read some of the comments we must be amongst perfect people. Who never make errors. Its simple, if you think its wrong dont buy it, I think its an unusual livery and even though it maybe the wrong shade. Looks good to me. Model rail should be congratulated for tackling the subject that otherwise would have remained a gap, not heavily chastised for a mistake.

[the-gog]

At least there's now scope for Rail Exclusive to commission 55993 in the correct Red Star Express Parcels livery. Then again, perhaps not. 

[the-gog]

At risk of being shot at but maybe, just maybe, if the 'incorrect' livery bothers people that much, invest in a small pot of paint and correct it. I think it's called modelling. I may be wrong. But having read some of the comments we must be amongst perfect people. Who never make errors. Its simple, if you think its wrong dont buy it, I think its an unusual livery and even though it maybe the wrong shade. Looks good to me. Model rail should be congratulated for tackling the subject that otherwise would have remained a gap, not heavily chastised for a mistake.

 

We forked out a premium of £45 to get it in this livery, so why should we fork out even more cash to correct it? I'd need to buy an airbrush set-up, then source the correct transfers (if they can be had). Only in Lewis Carroll's imagination would MR be congratulated for having commissioned this model. Bizarre.

 

RWJ

[the-gog]

Well, I've tried to be helpful. I've told you how to get a refund. 

CHRIS LEIGH

 

I also contact MR this morning via Twitter. Again, no reply. It looks like you're the only MR representative on earth.

[BR(S)]

If people have difficulty in grasping that concept, then it proves the adage that fools and their money are easily parted.

 

And can be reunited with that money by sending it back for a clearly offered refund . . .

[the-gog]

And can be reunited with that money by sending it back for a clearly offered refund . . .

So from that, I assume that all those of us who pre-ordered it - and therefore trusted MR to get it right - were all fools? Yes, I suppose we were. Oh yes, a refund, but my postage won't be.