andyman7 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Hmmm, I can understand the disappointment if you have ordered this model and now consider it doesn't fulfill your requirements due to inaccuracies but I''m a bit alarmed at some of the reactions. There is a clear opportunity to return the model and get a refund - OK so you lose return postage, it may not be fair, but it's the cost of a couple of pints, your house hasn't flooded, you're not starving to death, your country hasn't been invaded, it's really not worth getting so worked up about, surely? If everyone demanded return postage, it'll mean a stonking loss and the likelihood of fewer commissions in future, which would be a much bigger loss to us all. Mistakes happen, but this really needs to be kept in proportion. , Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Walker Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Wish I'd never taken the photos now, looking at all these comments. My concern in all of this will be if Model Rail/Kernow do not sell them all and that Model Rail don't get new bodies repainted correctly for reissue, then they decide to sell them off at cost to cut thier losses. I for one will not be happy at this, as I wish to keep mine and run it as it is. So I will be supporting Model Rail, but loosing out if they are sold off cheap. Then I'll be asking for a refund! Tony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the-gog Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Wish I'd never taken the photos now, looking at all these comments. My concern in all of this will be if Model Rail/Kernow do not sell them all and that Model Rail don't get new bodies repainted correctly for reissue, then they decide to sell them off at cost to cut thier losses. I for one will not be happy at this, as I wish to keep mine and run it as it is. So I will be supporting Model Rail, but loosing out if they are sold off cheap. Then I'll be asking for a refund! Tony. Tony, all this would've started even without your photos; they correspond to what I photographed this morning. If MR/Heljan produce a second run with CORRECT paint, I'll bite their hand off. If my 55993 was correct, I'd be delighted to keep it, and run it next to my green 47522 and red TPO. But I can't as the error is glaring. As for a refund of postage, why shouldn't we be refunded for it? We ordered it on blind faith of just a spec, and it isn't what was delivered. If it costs MR, then tough, it'll make them concentrate a bit more to, you know, get things right. No, it's not "just a model," it's a £140 purchase. RWJ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nedrahn Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 I also contact MR this morning via Twitter. Again, no reply. It looks like you're the only MR representative on earth. Not having one, I can't comment on the 128. Clearly, some purchasers are not pleased and it sounds as if it's more than nit-picking. The unit should be in the correct shade of blue. However, if I might be permitted a general observation, I've noticed in threads concerning magazines the assumption that just because a magazine is one of the big ones, there must be an army of staff waiting to jump to it. Those days, if ever they existed, are long gone. Most periodicals now have the bare minimum of permanent staff. I'm sure that the complaints will be dealt with by Model Rail eventually, but producing the magazine each month is, by its very nature, likely to be the priority for staff time. I emphasise that I'm not trying to downplay the problem or make any criticism of those who aren't happy with the 128. But do try to take the above into account. We need to realise that, as much as we might love our hobby magazines, they're pretty small fry overall. Take a look at the ABC figures and Press Gazette. I'm sure some of us will be horrified at the drivel (!) that beats modelling mags. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted March 21, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2014 We ordered it on blind faith of just a spec, and it isn't what was delivered. without being pedantic the picture on the model rail site does actually show the model with the light blue upper and no where in the description does it say that the model is a pre-production mock up and it will be revised to the "correct" livery but you still went ahead and ordered one and now you are not happy that you appear to have recieved exactly what is shown on the website Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted March 21, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2014 Quite right heads must roll for this travesty of model railway manufacturing... or maybe we could develop some perspective and chill out a little*. It's only a bit of plastic after all. *written with one eye on Sport Relief - there are more serious problems to worry about methinks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveb860 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 For god sake, the- gog, so your not happy with a model of a unit that as I understand it, you never actually saw yourself. You have had your say,now give it a rest. Chris has responded, the paint spec came from the gent who actually painted the original. Others are happy with it, and I myself think it looks perfectly acceptable, but will not be buying one purely because it does not fit in with my modelling period/ region. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted March 21, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 21, 2014 Quite right heads must roll for this travesty of model railway manufacturing... or maybe we could develop some perspective and chill out a little*. It's only a bit of plastic after all. *written with one eye on Sport Relief - there are more serious problems to worry about methinks. I have to admit, while we are all entitled to our views, this type of post really annoys me. It may just be a bit of plastic but it is a £140 piece of plastic, and about £45 more than the standard piece of plastic! Are we all so flush that we can just chalk up £140 to experience. I can understand that people would have bought this in good faith based on the reputation of Model Rail magazine. I can, therefore understand the disappointment, and if it is indeed the wrong colour(and whether the sun is shining or not, in the pictures I've seen it's clearly a different colour) then all costs should be refunded. So while Dibber is saying you can send it back for a refund, which is good, I would not expect to have to pay postage . As to the people saying buy a paint pot, why would I have bothered to buy the limited edition in the first place??? Only one point I would make is that you should give MR time to respond . Understandably they can't all be available to react to this immediately, but I would expect a response to any email next week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted March 21, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2014 I have to admit, while we are all entitled to our views, this type of post really annoys me. It may just be a bit of plastic but it is a £140 piece of plastic, and about £45 more than the standard piece of plastic! Are we all so flush that we can just chalk up £140 to experience. I can understand that people would have bought this in good faith based on the reputation of Model Rail magazine. I can, therefore understand the disappointment, and if it is indeed the wrong colour(and whether the sun is shining or not, in the pictures I've seen it's clearly a different colour) then all costs should be refunded. So while Dibber is saying you can send it back for a refund, which is good, I would not expect to have to pay postage . As to the people saying buy a paint pot, why would I have bothered to buy the limited edition in the first place??? Only one point I would make is that you should give MR time to respond . Understandably they can't all be available to react to this immediately, but I would expect a response to any email next week. Right back at you.... this kind of post makes me infuriatingly angry. If you don't like it just don't buy it. If this hobby is too much for you take up stamp collecting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Griffin Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 maybe there wont be a personal response, and quite frankly, with some posts, especially the over the top ones and the fury! from 'the-gog', then why should then respond personally. model rail will most likely issue a press statement so all can read it. maybe the thread can be locked. its run its course now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted March 21, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 21, 2014 Right back at you.... this kind of post makes me infuriatingly angry. If you don't like it just don't buy it. If this hobby is too much for you take up stamp collecting. But he bought it without seeing it, as you have to do with more and more models these days. It wasn't the case of if you don't like it don't buy it. He bought it in good faith and now wants all his outlay back. Seems reasonable to me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddys-blues Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Quite right heads must roll for this travesty of model railway manufacturing... or maybe we could develop some perspective and chill out a little*. It's only a bit of plastic after all. *written with one eye on Sport Relief - there are more serious problems to worry about methinks. As mentioned by another RMWebber, it is a £140 piece of plastic............with incorrect colours applied on to it, so I think people are entitled to grumble about. I for one will be returning my item when it arrives....I am just peeved off that I don't get my return postage paid, which will have to be Special Delivery as to protect myself and the item against any loss or damage that could possibly my occur on the return journey. Then I will buy myself the 55993 Rail Blue model from Hattons for £94.00, get the stripes and letting made up from Railtec transfers, and spray the model in a better shade of Blue that MR chose to have....and hey presto I will have done some modelling and have a limited edition of 1 of 1. Hopefully Rail Express will do 55994 in Red Star Livery and they may even do some proper research in getting the shades of blue somewhere near, and not rely on the say so of some bloke "who says" he painted these units at Tyseley Depot. Happy Modelling Craig. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted March 21, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2014 But he bought it without seeing it, as you have to do with more and more models these days. It wasn't the case of if you don't like it don't buy it. He bought it in good faith and now wants all his outlay back. Seems reasonable to me I didn't say it wasn't but the drivel that went with it was OTT. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted March 21, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2014 As mentioned by another RMWebber, it is a £140 piece of plastic............with incorrect colours applied on to it, so I think people are entitled to grumble about. I for one will be returning my item when it arrives....I am just peeved off that I don't get my return postage paid, which will have to be Special Delivery as to protect myself and the item against any loss or damage that could possibly my occur on the return journey. Then I will buy myself the 55993 Rail Blue model from Hattons for £94.00, get the stripes and letting made up from Railtec transfers, and spray the model in a better shade of Blue that MR chose to have....and hey presto I will have done some modelling and have a limited edition of 1 of 1. Hopefully Rail Express will do 55994 in Red Star Livery and they may even do some proper research in getting the shades of blue somewhere near, and not rely on the say so of some bloke "who says" he painted these units at Tyseley Depot. Happy Modelling Craig. Only a £140 piece of plastic if you bought and kept it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddys-blues Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Only a £140 piece of plastic if you bought and kept it And your point is ???? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR(S) Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 I have to admit, while we are all entitled to our views, this type of post really annoys me. It may just be a bit of plastic but it is a £140 piece of plastic, and about £45 more than the standard piece of plastic! Are we all so flush that we can just chalk up £140 to experience. I can understand that people would have bought this in good faith based on the reputation of Model Rail magazine. I can, therefore understand the disappointment, and if it is indeed the wrong colour(and whether the sun is shining or not, in the pictures I've seen it's clearly a different colour) then all costs should be refunded. So while Dibber is saying you can send it back for a refund, which is good, I would not expect to have to pay postage . As to the people saying buy a paint pot, why would I have bothered to buy the limited edition in the first place??? Only one point I would make is that you should give MR time to respond . Understandably they can't all be available to react to this immediately, but I would expect a response to any email next week. But if the posts had been focussed entirely on the issue of postage I would have more sympathy as I too would expect all postage to be refunded. However, the talk of the cost of the model is irrelevant as this will of course be refunded in full by Model Rail and this has never been in question; there is not one suggestion from MR that a buyer will have to chalk £140 up to experience! People who return the models will have to negotiate with MR about the postage and I think it should be refunded in full. Unfortunately, it's turned into another one of those threads where a long anticipated model hasn't met the expectations of some and the disappointment arising from this has led to a response that's been blown out of all proportion. Let's say the original and return postage totals £10, it becomes a £10 piece of plastic, which I agree should be refunded as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddys-blues Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Can't wait for the next edition of MR....will they be reviewing their own Limited Edition ? 10/10.....best Limited Edition ever......fills a gap in the Market. Emperor's New Clothes springs to mind. Happy Modelling Craig. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted March 21, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2014 And your point is ???? I think sending a model back because you believe it sub standard is complaint enough. I accept the point about paying for return postage for a model you don't want but this is always going to be the case if your are buying a model unseen, it's the risk you take. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mod4 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Please can we keep this civil. Chris on behalf of Model Rail has explained both the background to their research and the returns policy as it stands. No further amount of repetitive posts / heated posts will achieve anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddys-blues Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 I think sending a model back because you believe it sub standard is complaint enough. I accept the point about paying for return postage for a model you don't want but this is always going to be the case if your are buying a model unseen, it's the risk you take. Ok Griff...I thought it was a flippant off the cuff comment, but I understand what you are saying now, as I said in my earlier posts, and some of my enquiries to Chris on the initial announcement of this model, the picture they produced was wrong in colour form the start, and this was questioned, to which we where told, the pre-production sample was wrong also, and this will be corrected at the painting stage...but sadly alas this doesn't seem to have happened, and a good number have bought the item on this pretense, "please note this is not laying any blame at Chris Leigh's door, I think Chris is a true Gentleman who gives his time on here to post good constructive posts and thread, and engages with us modellers so we can move forward in this hobby" Sadly for a lot of us involved in this purchase we are not happy with the colours applied, yes thanks to MR we get a refund of the initial Model outlay, thank you for that, but we should be reimbursed for our return postage also, now it's okay for people to say "but MR will be out of pocket because of the amount of models returned", well if the model was correct in the first place then 99% of the purchasers would be happy and very few models would be returned.. If for some reason my return postage is not refunded, I will compensate my costs by not buying another edition of MR again, simples, once bitten twice shy. Happy Modelling Craig. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the-gog Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Here's a set of photos of a delicious O gauge model of 55993 in this livery: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ressaldar/sets/72157627021615247/with/5529647198/ Did this modeller get the upper panel wrong? And the best photo of all, 55993 at BNS: http://www.flickr.com/photos/35476094@N04/8671896538/in/photolist-ediJHy-edNwxk-8iwuxU-7N6eBY-a1UJ5K-abfvmF-8kuNUU-9riiMq-8sojBf-8snBid-5q6XFK-dG9NgS-bcDskP-jHCkmC-6Ji12L-dqfPcV-dqfPb4-7a3eDb-62MsFh-fv6nfC-ioUXkF-dqfP9c-dU2EnZ-a2f6oy-9v8zPZ-bK5D7t-aDNCLu-aDNCGE-inRqe4-cpSuDo-4TEarY-83u7Fu-89qbyc-82CB23-83tXXY-bCfjh8-9Tp1G9-kBvStQ-9wN1qX-cwuRyU-8NwvC6-9KP2De Now, that nails the colour issue once and for all. Who's going to now tell me that the MR model is correct against this photo of the prototype? Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the-gog Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Photo of it at http://www.flickr.com/photos/25330447@N08/8330657616/in/photolist-dG9NgS-bcDskP-jHCkmC-6Ji12L-dqfPb4-dqfPcV-7a3eDb-62MsFh-fv6nfC-ioUXkF-dqfP9c-dU2EnZ-inRqe4-cpSuDo-4TEarY-cwuRyU-8NwvC6-89qbyc-83tXXY-82CB23-83u7Fu-bCfjh8-9Tp1G9-kBvStQ-9KP2De-9wN1qX and Crewe: http://www.flickr.com/photos/87944625@N02/11405353453/in/photolist-inRqe4-cpSuDo-4TEarY-cwuRyU-8NwvC6-89qbyc-82CB23-83u7Fu-83tXXY-bCfjh8-9Tp1G9-kBvStQ-9KP2De-9wN1qX Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted March 22, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2014 This is becoming your magnum opus. I never disagreed with your argument about colour. TBH I don't know enough about the prototype to offer any meaningful comment either way. Your issue is, or should be, about returns procedure and I think that's already been covered. If you have further complaint I would take it up with MR directly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted March 22, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 22, 2014 Just as with any other item if we order it in advance and are not satisfied when it arrives we can return it under the Distance Selling legislation. If we wait until it's available and order on the strength of thumbnail images the same applies. If we choose to wait until others have seen the item and made their decision we may not order at all. To my mind each side in this argument has made their point. The debate over the rightness or wrongness of any livery shade can go on for ever and can become both futile and nasty. Let's not lose too much sleep over this. It may be a disappointment to some and it might (or might not) be an incorrect shade of light blue. If you don't want it you don't have to have it.<Clicks "Unfollow this topic"> Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Not Captain Kernow Posted March 22, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 22, 2014 I for one will be returning my item when it arrives....I am just peeved off that I don't get my return postage paid, which will have to be Special Delivery as to protect myself and the item against any loss or damage that could possibly my occur on the return journey. How about phoning and cancelling before it is actually sent? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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