Cornwalls signalling

[treggyman]

Some shots of St Blazey

 

Hi Eggesford Box

 

Thanks for sharing those great pictures....

 

The last picture reminds me of when I was aged about 8 or 9 in Langport West signal box watching the fireman of a Pannier or small Prairie hooking the 'tablet' on the token apparatus at what I at that time saw as high speed on the run in to the platform .

 

Briliant.....Thanks again

 

Cheers Bill

[Eggesford box]

Some photos of Truro and Newquay in 1985.

[Tim V]

Can anyone tell me where these were taken? I think I'd walked up a disused branch from Roche or Bugle (I can't remember!) and found this signal, it was part of a preservation/restoration scheme. I didn't see anything else there. It wasn't Wheal Martyn. Dated 2/8/78.

[Gwiwer]

I'd be almost certain those pics are of the Carbis Wharf branch.

 

Question without notice to our signalling friends : Why are the Cornish boxes fitted with plunger release for most of their levers?

[phil-b259]

I'd be almost certain those pics are of the Carbis Wharf branch.

 

Question without notice to our signalling friends : Why are the Cornish boxes fitted with plunger release for most of their levers?

 

I think its a regional thing as most GWR and Western region boxes, including all the boexs on the GWSR, seam to have them. On the other hand the Southern seems to prefer to use the inital movement of the lever to pick the elctric lock rather than plungers. As to why the difference - hopefully someone else on the fourm can shed some light on the issue.

[Gwiwer]

I am more familiar with SR signalling practice than WR so found it unusual to see such an array of plungers. Even if it's the normal way of doing things.

[Eggesford box]

Hi,

as previous posters have said I think it is a difference in regional practises (and presumably company practises before that). Around Banbury where the regions have changed over the years there was a mixture of LMR and WR equipment in the boxes owing to renewals or alterations, sometimes not always working that well together. Fenny Compton which was a Western box ended up with the 'dog boxes' at the bottom of some of the levers (was lock economisers the correct term for them, I am sure some one will know?)rather than plungers on the shelf. Whilst not strictly relevant to the post I can remember working Fenny Compton one day when the lock would not pick on one of the signals. When the S&T arrived and took the lid off the lock economiser (sic) it was found that at some time previously a spring had broken and been replaced by a rubber band which had duly perished. No doubt meant as a brief stop gap and then forgotten. A discrete veil was drawn over the reason for the failure!

[floss_4]

Can anyone tell me where these were taken? I think I'd walked up a disused branch from Roche or Bugle (I can't remember!) and found this signal, it was part of a preservation/restoration scheme. I didn't see anything else there. It wasn't Wheal Martyn. Dated 2/8/78.

 

There was a preservation movement on a short stretch of the goonbarrow line between Bugle and Stenalees. They moved to the current site at Bodmin when that became available after 1983.

[The Stationmaster]

I'd be almost certain those pics are of the Carbis Wharf branch.

 

Question without notice to our signalling friends : Why are the Cornish boxes fitted with plunger release for most of their levers?

Western standard practice was to use a shelf mounted plunger for electric lever locks - I think the idea was simplicity as it didn't rely on movement of the catch handle or lever unlike, say, the A3 frames found frequently on the Southern. The other advantage was with FPL levers which have a sealed release (they can be seen next to the plunger on the block shelves picture above - black rectangle with a glass front in the middle over a paper label)s and if there is a track circuit failure they can be used to release the lever lock which avoids having to wait for the S&T to come & do it plus there is a full record of it being done kept in the Train Register Book. The other idea of having a separate plunger is that it means the lever does not need to move at all to actuate the electric lock and neither does the catch handle so it has the dual advantage of letting a Signalman know very clearly if the electric lock has picked (you can hear it) while maintaining full integrity of the mechanical locking before the lever is moved and allowing full stroke of the lever without any concern about the electric lock not picking.

 

As far as working the frame is concerned it is very easy to get used to plunging with one hand as you grip the lever/catch handle with the other. It's also fairly handy when tracing faults as the electric lock circuit can be checked without any need to touch the lever.

 

Edited to correct typo re A3 lever frames

[Tim V]

There was a preservation movement on a short stretch of the goonbarrow line between Bugle and Stenalees. They moved to the current site at Bodmin when that became available after 1983.

 

Thanks floss_4 that rings a distant bell. I wonder what happened to that signal - I didn't see any square post signals other than the fixed distants which were there before. All the new signals around Bodmin I saw were steel round posts.

[Tim V]

Here is the Lostwithiel Up branch distant 28/07/78

[winterbournecm]

Moving along to my other favourite Cornish box - Par. Here are some pictures taken recently.

 

 

 

 

 

[Oldddudders]

Moving along to my other favourite Cornish box - Par. Here are some pictures taken recently.

Not many white ones in that frame. Always a good sign!

[Eggesford box]

Western standard practice was to use a shelf mounted plunger for electric lever locks - I think the idea was simplicity as it didn't rely on movement of the catch handle or lever unlike, say, the A3 frames found frequently on the Southern. The other advantage was with FPL levers which have a sealed release (they can be seen next to the plunger on the block shelves picture above - black rectangle with a glass front in the middle over a paper label)s and if there is a track circuit failure they can be used to release the lever lock which avoids having to wait for the S&T to come & do it plus there is a full record of it being done kept in the Train Register Book. The other idea of having a separate plunger is that it means the lever does not need to move at all to actuate the electric lock and neither does the catch handle so it has the dual advantage of letting a Signalman know very clearly if the electric lock has picked (you can hear it) while maintaining full integrity of the mechanical locking before the lever is moved and allowing full stroke of the lever without any concern about the electric lock not picking.

 

As far as working the frame is concerned it is very easy to get used to plunging with one hand as you grip the lever/catch handle with the other. It's also fairly handy when tracing faults as the electric lock circuit can be checked without any need to touch the lever.

 

Edited to correct typo re A3 lever frames

To add to the Stationmasters post. It was common (possibly always) to provide a delay of a few seconds on the plungers for points so you could take your hand off the plunger and grasp the lever with both hands for the full stroke since point levers tend to be heavier pulls. With signals, as soon as you took your hand off of the plunger the lock would drop again. Also handy when you are trying to make a quick move as you could stand with your hand on the plunger and as soon as you heard the lock pick you knew you where free to make the move (and yes I know you are supposed to look at the T/C indications as well). Just occured to me this morning whilst working a box due to staff shortages and Hidden requirements.

 

Having worked boxes with both plungers and having to pull the catch handle to release the locks I would concur with Mike, I find the plungers easier to work with. Then again, I suppose it is a case of what you are more familiar with.

[winterbournecm]

I promised some pictures from Roskear box in Camborne. I took some today and tried to "sex them up" as Roskear possesses none of the charm of the other boxes in the County. It is in a dark location, with the South facing wall 80% blank, and hides in the shadow of a footbridge. Added to it, it has no lever frame, and cages on the windows to prevent vandalism. Apart from that it's OK!!

 

I split up the pictures of the diagram:

The Gwinear Road to Camborne station portion.

 

The "station limits"! More has been removed than still exists really. The painted out areas include the former branch to Holmans sidings, detonator placers and ground signal on the cross over.

 

The East end of the diagram showing the former milk sidings and Annetts key release. The down main home R25 has had an interesting history. Until 1982 - R24 was the home signal - i.e. there was no fixed signal protecting Dolcoath AHBs. When Drump Lane box was removed, the Down main distant and semaphore home was retained as an emergency replacement signal. Its normal position was "off" and was green on the diagram (extremely rare). A few years later a three aspect stop signal at Brea was introduced along with a yellow/green repeater. This became the Down Main home instead.

 

The general view of the signalling equipment on the block shelf. Including CCTV for Camborne Crossing.

 

The crossover is an enigma at Roskear. Controlled by a single lever GF released by the S&T once the relevant protecting signals have been disconnected (as no physical interlocking exists). There are talks of the crossover being removed in years to come. In fairness - it's not a piece of kit we used very often due to the restrictions mentioned above, plus its complications with the many level crossings in the area.

[The Stationmaster]

Roskear was something of a rush job hence some of its oddities. The frame failed a locking test (spectacularly so I was told at the time) and something had to be done very quickly but there was virtually no money available to do it but it was decided it was still needed as a block post and so it stayed but everything was done on a very tight budget. The frame had to go because it was impossible to do anything with it as there were no locking parts available and, by then, no Locking Fitters or designers who really understood Double Twist Locking.

[Oldddudders]

no Locking Fitters or designers who really understood Double Twist Locking.

Call in Chubby Checker?

[The Stationmaster]

Call in Chubby Checker?

I thought he only did Single Twist

[winterbournecm]

Roskear was something of a rush job hence some of its oddities. The frame failed a locking test (spectacularly so I was told at the time) and something had to be done very quickly but there was virtually no money available to do it but it was decided it was still needed as a block post ....

 

Hindsight is wonderful thing Mike. We've often talked whether keeping Drump Lane having Roskear & Camborne as CCTV would have been a better solution. This would have allowed two decent cross overs for SLW etc, plus a shorter section to Truro.

You mention money too, may remember though the station staff operated Camborne barriers from a little cabin from the closure of Camborne box until about 1982 prior to the CCTV being installed.

[floss_4]

Hindsight is wonderful thing Mike. We've often talked whether keeping Drump Lane having Roskear & Camborne as CCTV would have been a better solution.

 

Was Roskear retained because the Holmans Branch was still operational? I can't find the closure date for Drump Lane.

 

A better option might have been to have still closed Drump Lane but have remotely controlled signals there from Roskear. This would have only required one CCTV crossing as at present.

[winterbournecm]

I'm sure the last working into Holmans was around 1980/1. Certainly Drump Lane was used for running around the Chacewater cement tanks after this. Your point is a good one though. I was indicating Drump lane had crossovers without complications. Personally, I would have preferred Camborne box to have been kept. It was South facing and would have had a bit more going on then Stray Park Road at Roskear! The connection to Holmans was the primary reason Roskear was kept, plus (as mentioned) Camborne crossing wasnt made CCTV for some years.

 

My dearest colleague Mr R K Matthews was the last regular signalman at Drump Lane working a 7am to 3pm shift to break the section - I'll check when his last shift was. The box lay dormant after that for a while before being closed and demolished.

[ess1uk]

strange box Roskear, i wondered why it was like it was, now i know

picture taken from the telecom loc under the bridge.

[winterbournecm]

Some clarification on dates... Drump Lane closed in 1987, but had only seen regular one shift opening up till 1983. It was opened occasionally for SLW, engineering etc, but few signalmen signed it by then. This was the time when the down home & distant were retained as the emergency replacement signal motor controlled from Roskear. A bit of Cornish trivia, I think this signal was the only motorized HOME signal in the County.

[Jack00]

The footbridge over the box is a nice spot for watching trains.

 

Shame ive moved house (or in the process of) all I had to do was hang out my windown and see the signal box and 22.19 sleeper rushing past after departing Camborne a few minutes before.

 

Jack.

[The Stationmaster]

Some clarification on dates... Drump Lane closed in 1987, but had only seen regular one shift opening up till 1983. It was opened occasionally for SLW, engineering etc, but few signalmen signed it by then. This was the time when the down home & distant were retained as the emergency replacement signal motor controlled from Roskear. A bit of Cornish trivia, I think this signal was the only motorized HOME signal in the County.

Is Lostwithiel's Up Home mechanical - must be quite a pull c.half a mile from the 'box (years since I was in the 'box so I can't remember although I think it probably was mechanical back then?