RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 27, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 27, 2013 How does the release of the "staff" work if there is no cooperating signalman at the other end of the section? Also release of No 24? Another one from my small collection of Cornish Signalling plans. It is the only one that can be photographed in one shot! P1276208 cropped.jpg Situated about 1/4 mile on the Delabole Side of Port Issac Road, it was worked by trip workings from Port Issac Road and not passing down freight trains. The line fell at 1:75 to Port Issac Road at this point. Trains were propelled outwards, with the brake van on the loco and returned as a conventional working. The date of the drawing is 25.7.21 . Goonbarrow -Newquay was presumably reduced to NSKT ('No Signalman Key Token') working after St Dennis Jcn and Newquay 'boxes went - there might be a token machine at Newquay from which a token would be released by the Goonbarrow Signalman - if there is no token machine the Driver simply retains the token and telephones for permission to return to Goonbarrow (depends on the exact Instructions in use on the line and whether there are any sidings at Newquay). Signal 24 at Goonbarrow is released by the Signalman withdrawing a token from the machine there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted January 27, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2013 How are the mighty fallen? It's a long siding beyond Goonbarrow these days. I had to admit surprise the first time I saw the "rationalised" Newquay having a couple of years previously witnessed it with three loco-hauled trains standing simultaneously awaiting run-round or departure. I wondered then how it would ever cope with summer traffic again. The reality is that for six months of the year a taxi might have spare seats on some trips. The traffic is so highly seasonal - probably more so than any other Cornish branch - and when the rationalisation was done traffic was falling with a very real prospect of the line closing altogether. It might have been the china clay traffic which saved it. Now its fortunes are changing and the HST workings can be decently loaded with the more usual fare of a 150 or 153 unit often being packed to and beyond the gunwales. If that sort of business could be sustained year-round there might be an argument to reinstate a little more of the infrastructure and permit a better service to be run but then there's the question of where does the stock come from. Already FGW robs Peter to pay Paul by running the 150 off the branch from Par to Penzance and back while the HST goes to Newquay. Instead of an overloaded Newquay train this has created an overloaded Penzance train ..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted January 27, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 27, 2013 Goonbarrow -Newquay was presumably reduced to NSKT ('No Signalman Key Token') working after St Dennis Jcn and Newquay 'boxes went - there might be a token machine at Newquay from which a token would be released by the Goonbarrow Signalman - if there is no token machine the Driver simply retains the token and telephones for permission to return to Goonbarrow (depends on the exact Instructions in use on the line and whether there are any sidings at Newquay). Signal 24 at Goonbarrow is released by the Signalman withdrawing a token from the machine there. The Stationmaster has got it right here - the section from Goonbarrow to Newquay is essentially worked to the One Train Regulations with Train Staff, with just one of the former electric tokens retained as the One Train Working Staff. There is nothing at Newquay to warrant a token instrument there, just plain line into the station and the buffer stops. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterbournecm Posted January 28, 2013 Author Share Posted January 28, 2013 I can understand the slight confusion of the former Token machine for the OTW section. The Signalman can simply help himself to the "staff" as the release button is redundant. As others have alluded to, we can only dream of trains locking themselves in at Newquay platforms for another train to proceed down there and have a bevy of departures waiting for the throng of soggy emmets, mankini wearers, surf boarders and stag / hen dos with varying types of inflatable devices. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 28, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 28, 2013 Winterbournecm, In your post 26/11/12 on a day at St Erth, you mention that the St Ives branch has a staff. Why the difference? Was it just due to cost when the Newquay branch was rationialsed? I would say luck of the draw and the simplest way of doing a job at the time it is done. Newquay is a more recent job and probably done in an era when it was more difficult to get a train staff made but token machines weren't in high demand so easy to do a minimum of work and leave it there. St Ives was done much earlier (signalbox closed 1963) in the days when Reading could knock out a train staff with a key for the ground frame included in the twinkling of a Works Order. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted January 28, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 28, 2013 It's also possible to lock the St. Ives train into the bay at St. Erth and with the staff surrendered either admit a second train from the Penzance direction onto the branch or to have something shunt the remaining siding. The present timetable doesn't allow time for such luxuries however with only a minute or two to turn back on the daytime workings. But at least there's a 30-minute headway in common with Falmouth. That has the two-fold advantages of offering a more attractive service with more journey options and of minimising any wait if a main line connection is missed due to late running. It's not always possible to hold a connection at Par even if it means unlucky passengers have a 2 or 3 hour wait. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish trains jez Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 A couple scanned from old prints. The photos were taken 6th June 1970. St Austell Box. The disc in the foreground is #30, which controlled entrance onto a trailing siding on the down side, just in advance of down starter #4. The wagon on the right is standing on the short dock siding, trailing from the up main. St Austell Box 06.06.1970.jpg D844 'Spartan' on working 1V70, which was an inter-regional train. The note I made on the back of the print says it is the down 'Cornishman'. The signal is #4, the down starter. The down siding in the foreground is the one mentioned above. Spartan, one of the NBL batch, was withdrawn in October 1971, so I suspect never received rail blue. I preferred the Warships in maroon to green or blue. [img=http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/public/style_images/master/attachicon.gif] D844 Spartan 06.06.1970.jpg All the rest of my Cornish signalling photos from the 70s and 80s are on 35mm slides. If anybody has advice on the most cost effective way to scan them,I would be grateful. EDIT: Looking at the photo of D844, I noticed that the paintwork on the signal is fresh. If I recall, they had a painting spree that year of the St Austell signals. Some lovely shots there Paul! Nice to see some colourful locos on this line. Thanks for sharing! Best regards, Jeremy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish trains jez Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Hi Paul Just remembered, my parents have a device for transferring slides to a PC, I'll check what make it is next time I see them and PM you if you like. Best regards, Jeremy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted February 21, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 21, 2013 Your most cost effective way of scanning the slides will depend on how many and what you want from the images. If you have time and don't want high res images then a cheap home scanner is the way to go. If there are only a few that you want at high res then sending them off to get them scanned would be cost effective. Lots of images and high res is going to be expensive however you do it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rail-Online Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Hi, Any update to the position of signalling in Cornwall? Are all these boxes still open with semaphores to photograph if I have time to visit while I am down there? Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted August 28, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 28, 2015 All still as you were at present. For how much longer is open to debate so grab photos while you can. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish trains jez Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Hope they remain in place for a good number of years to come. They will make an interesting contrast against the ultra modern Hitachi trains once they arrive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted August 29, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 29, 2015 Hope they remain in place for a good number of years to come. As things stand, the recommendation is still that you should get your photos while you can. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I'm planning a little trip down there to photograph what's left, hopefully this side of Christmas... don't leave it too long or you will regret it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianusa Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 It will be a sad day from an enthusiasts point of view when there when they will be no more. What next, OHW at Penzance? Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted August 31, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 31, 2015 What next, OHW at Penzance? One can only hope, Brian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 As things stand, the recommendation is still that you should get your photos while you can. Judging by the rate the team in the office is going, better get them sooner rather than later.... Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob F Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I was on St Erth station on Saturday evening a couple of weeks ago to see the loco hauled set returning to Penzance and I wonder if the experts on here could explain the sequence of actions a signaller carries out as trains pass. As we arrived the signal at the down end of the down platform was at danger and this cleared a few minutes before a Voyager appeared heading for Penzance. I was expecting the signal to revert to danger when the train passed but it didn't, it stayed clear until a few minutes before the loco hauled was due (at least 10 minutes), when it was pulled to danger and then immediately set to clear again within 20 seconds. Why was there the need to set it danger briefly before being cleared again? ROB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted September 2, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 2, 2015 I was on St Erth station on Saturday evening a couple of weeks ago to see the loco hauled set returning to Penzance and I wonder if the experts on here could explain the sequence of actions a signaller carries out as trains pass. As we arrived the signal at the down end of the down platform was at danger and this cleared a few minutes before a Voyager appeared heading for Penzance. I was expecting the signal to revert to danger when the train passed but it didn't, it stayed clear until a few minutes before the loco hauled was due (at least 10 minutes), when it was pulled to danger and then immediately set to clear again within 20 seconds. Why was there the need to set it danger briefly before being cleared again? ROB Sounds like the Signalman was in the toilet (a well know excuse for not putting signals back to danger when they should be). The block controls wouldn't work correctly if the signal was left off - but it was seemingly done very smartish when it did happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted September 2, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 2, 2015 Agreed. Signalmen are human too. Potty stops are needed. Sometimes it's very hard to manage that between movements (of the railway kind!) given how busy many lines are and that many of the surviving boxes also deal with seemingly constant phone calls from occupation crossings and track workers. The signals must be reset to danger after one train passes before another can be admitted to the section. As Mike states the block working will not allow one train to follow another until this has been done. There must have been some interval. The signal in the rear of St. Erth's home is back at Penponds now. That's closer to Camborne than to Hayle and the length of that block means trains cannot run less than 12 minutes or so apart, more like 15 if they stop at Hayle. One of the locals (we have at least one local signaller / MOM in here) will no doubt tell me there's a special arrangement at St. Erth to clear at Penponds and bring trains up to St. Erth home signal but if the starter is "off" then the home is the only protection without overlap. Doesn't sound quite right to me but I don't sign the frame. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted September 3, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 3, 2015 Let's look at this in sequence - Presumably Roskear will ask forward when it receives Train Entering Section from Truro, which will no doubt be several minutes or so after the train has left Truro as Truro has an I.B. signal (or what amounts to an I.B.Signal) on the Down about 3 miles to the west; Truro to Roskear Jcn 'box -to-box is a few chains short of 12 miles. Whether Roskear would ask forward immediately it receives Train Entering Section is debatable but assuming a train is running at line speed it will certainly need to get its first stop signal (a 3 aspect colour light) 'off' in time to give a green aspect at its repeater and that is approx 1.5 miles from the box and thus around 5 - 5.5 miles from Truro's IB - but no need as yet to ask forward so I suspect the 'Box Instruction (of which I can remember no details at all alas) probably requires Camborne barriers to be lowered when the train passes the repeater but 'Is Line Clear?" needn't be asked until the train passes the outermost stop signal so it would be a bit short of the 312 mile post but that would ensure - if accepted - that the train gets a green aspect at Roskear's other two signals on the Down. St Erth 'box is just short of 9 miles from Roskear Jcn's outermost stop signal so 'Is Line Clear?' but with trains stopping at Camborne, and possibly Hayle as Rick mentions, the running time is going to vary between 11/12 and 16/17 minutes from the time the train is asked - assuming I'm on the right track about when it would be asked. Assuming there is something ahead and the train cannot be asked forward until 'Train out of section' is received that would mean a minimum of 10/11 or 14/15 minutes (allowing a bit for slow running towards the signal west of Camborne). Now we get to St Erth. In order to accept a train from Roskear Jcn the block almost certainly requires the Home Signal to be at Danger and the Distant Signal to be at Caution - so in order to accept the following train both will have had to be put back behind the previous one. But in order to clear the Home Signal for the next train the starting Signal would have to be at danger with the lever back in the frame standing normal and in order to clear the Distant the same would apply to the Starting Signal (at the end of the platform) and advance Starting Signal as well. So apart from the 'forgetfulness' angle or the good old 'Signalman in toilet' story all was quite safe and the next train couldn't approach the signal which had been left at 'off' - why it was really left 'off' is another story entirely and my money would usually go on 'Signalman in toilet' (I've even seen it written in Train Register Books). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Horse Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 God I wish I understood half of that Thanks for sharing though, I'm going to re-read it now and try and learn Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted September 4, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 4, 2015 God I wish I understood half of that Thanks for sharing though, I'm going to re-read it now and try and learn Take it slowly and draw a sketch to help. Also follow the link below and click on the signalbox name/photo to get its detail up and you will find the 'box diagrams available (in photographic form) http://photos.signallingnotices.org.uk/index.php?col=7#3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted September 4, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 4, 2015 Mike - subject to Craig confirming this (it's been a while since I interested myself in the detail here), I suspect that Roskear will ask 'Line Clear' of St Erth as soon as he/she gets 'Train Entering Section' from Truro, unless there's already one in the section between Roskear and St Erth. Similarly, I would have thought that Truro would give 'Train Entering Section' to Roskear as soon as the train was departing Truro station, unless the section from Baldhu IBS to Roskear was already occupied, in which case a rapid series of bells would ensue as soon as the first train had passed clear of the Down line clearing point at Roskear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marky7890 Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Here are a couple of photos I got the signal box at Penzance on bank holiday Monday from the coast path. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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