Railmaster for all?

[7013]

This is an interesting development. Quoted from MREmag.

 

 

Reference ****** ******s comment in respect of i-Phone / i-Pad connectivity to the RailMaster system, this is being worked on as I write. First of the mobile devices to work with RailMaster will be the Palm, Mike Wild (editor ofHornby Magazine) is already using several to control his demonstration layout. This will be followed by Android and then finally Apple. All these controls will bring totally wire free control to any RailMaster controlled layout. I myself have used the Palm device and not being one to get over excited, I find it amazing!

Simon Kohler

 

There was me thinking Palms were dead and buried, obviously not. However when the i pad/pod/mac etc. connectivity comes along it will be worth looking at.

[Graham_Muz]

As I have also been testing the use of the Palm version with Mike Wild on one of his layouts I can confirm that it certainly is a very practical and useful addition to Railmaster. It is intuitive and simple to use (which is a good thing as I am very much a DCC luddite still!) and certainly provides an extra dimension.

Much of our expereince with it to date has been fed back to Hornby and updates already made accordingly that should be carried over to the other platforms in due course.

 

As far as I am aware the choice of platform and the order in which they are being done is due to the ease of programming and processes involved in getting the finished prodict to market via the appropriate channel for each type of device.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Curious that they are bothering with a defunct form factor (PDA), no longer in widespread production.

Maybe they reckon there's a market in supplying to miserly skinflint modellers who'd rather source an old Palm off eBay for 20p, than than fork out for a modern iOS or Android device.

 

 

[melmerby]

Curious that they are bothering with a defunct form factor (PDA), no longer in widespread production.

Maybe they reckon there's a market in supplying to miserly skinflint modellers who'd rather source an old Palm off eBay for 20p, than than fork out for a modern iOS or Android device.

 

 

 

Quote from This Morning's MREmag:

 

Concerning this morning’s MRE, can I just answer a couple of points. Firstly, Xxxxx xxxxxxx's question about a RailMaster version for the Apple computer. Unfortunately there are no plans at the moment but as usual I am watching the situation carefully. The problem is the number of Apple computer users who are involved with model railways. Sadly the numbers are not that great to justify the heavy investment in rewriting the program so that is runs with Apple units, but in time, who is to say. Hopefully one day.

 

"In respect of Xxxx xxxxx's comments, it seemed to me that there were hundreds if not thousands of Palm units languishing about in draws, not being used, but if they could be utilised as handheld units to work with RailMaster, what a cost effective way of having wire free control. As I wrote earlier, Android and IPhone control will follow and are being worked on, but please remember it is not just a question of flicking a switch and hey presto it works, much development and testing has to be done first before any APP is placed on the market. If we did not do that and the system crashed, I just wonder what Xxxx would say then! RailMaster is a wonderful system, simple to operate and to my mind makes operating a model railway great fun and realistic, plus you do not need a degree in computer studies to understand it! With the addition of these APPs the capabilities of RailMaster really will start to unfold.

Simon Kohler"

 

How many Apple users on RMWeb? A fair few I would guess.

 

So they are betting on just hundreds, maybe a few thousand Palm users to justify making software compatibility with them? Is it worth it?

 

A case of Hornby trying to catch up but not sure what to do I suspect.

 

 

 

Keith

[S.A.C Martin]

Funny this, just sent my own email off to MREmag on this very topic - and bear in mind, I am an Apple user in phone and computer so some level of bias may be apparent.

 

Railmaster's bite of the Apple

 

Dear Sir,

 

I was delighted to read in MREmag that Hornby are developing Railmaster to be compatible with the iPhone. Having seen a demonstration of Railmaster recently, I was very much impressed, and as an iPhone user I am naturally interested as to how it will work. I was somewhat taken aback, however, by the contradictory argument put forward by Mr Simon Kohler regarding not supporting Apple computers, but then supporting Palm units for Railmaster.

 

The Palm device might be cost effective if already purchased, many years ago, and indeed, languishing in a drawer, Mr Kohler; but they are not current devices and support for Palm is limited. They were taken over by HP in 2010 and all Palm products are now HP branded and supported.

 

I am astounded that, given Apple are one of the world's largest companies (with a total equity of 76 billion dollars worldwide) that Hornby is not taking up the opportunity to capitalise further on the increasing number of Apple users.

 

I simply cannot understand the logic behind supporting a much smaller proportion of an overall market than one which arguably is building a majority stake worldwide.

 

Kind regards,

 

Name: Simon A.C. Martin

[melmerby]

Funny this, just sent my own email off to MREmag on this very topic - and bear in mind, I am an Apple user in phone and computer so some level of bias may be apparent.

 

Hornby's actions and Simon Kohler's response seem utterly bizarre to me.

If there were hundreds of thousands of working Palms around and they were still current technology, then yes. But he seems to be basing the argument on maybe just a few thousand being available. And how many of the people that have them don't use them because they have got something more modern?

I am not an Apple user but if I was in his position I would definitely be looking to at least making the system work via USB to suitable Apple devices, in the same way Windows PC users can.

 

Keith

[smokebox]

Perhaps they'll do a version of Railmaster for the BBC computer next. I've got a model B, a Master and an Archimedes "languishing" in my spare room.

[Graham_Muz]

Just to clarify, as far as I am aware Railmster will be available for the Andriod and iPhone handsets in due course (any App for the iPhone requires a much longer process to be approved by Apple prior to release via itunes I am told).

 

It is my understanding from SK's response that it is the main software itself that they will not making available for Macs at the moment.

[Revolution Mike]

Seems a bit of confusion is creeping in here.

 

When Simon K is talking about Railmaster running on Apple units, I understood that to be the Railmaster software running on OSX on Macbook/Mac of some flavour. I can quite understand not bothering with OSX given a relatively small installed base (cf to Windows). If Mac OSX users want Railmaster could they not use it through Boot Camp or Parallels? All this is completely separate from developing an app for Iphones/Ipod Touches which run iOS (and which they will do).

 

On the Palm OS - as someone said earlier. This is probably just a case of an easy win for Hornby's developers - simple to do and no app approval process to go through. Android and iOS will follow.

 

Cheers, Mike

[S.A.C Martin]

Seems a bit of confusion is creeping in here.

 

When Simon K is talking about Railmaster running on Apple units, I understood that to be the Railmaster software running on OSX on Macbook/Mac of some flavour.

 

No, it's for running off an app on the iPhone I thought? There being no interest in following up with a full version for OSX.

 

I can quite understand not bothering with OSX given a relatively small installed base (cf to Windows). If Mac OSX users want Railmaster could they not use it through Boot Camp or Parallels? All this is completely separate from developing an app for Iphones/Ipod Touches which run iOS (and which they will do).

 

We could, of course, but the argument wasn't about not doing OSX generally; it was the way in which it was argued OSX is a small market and then immediately the discussion turned to developing Railmaster for an even smaller market.

 

On the Palm OS - as someone said earlier. This is probably just a case of an easy win for Hornby's developers - simple to do and no app approval process to go through.

 

But surely Palm itself (given most Palm devices have been discontinued or are now under the HP brand, and are a very small proportion of the overall smart phone market) is a much smaller market than OSX as a whole?

 

You can't have it both ways. Simon Kohler states in his MREmag letter that there isn't the support for OSX. I could tell you categorically there isn't the support for Palm and it'll be a smaller market than targeting OSX.

 

I simply don't understand the breakdown in logic here. I quite agree in comparison to Windows, OSX reflects a smaller overall proportion of the market (but it is growing steadily), but why then develop the software for Palm devices at all? That doesn't make sense to me if we're going by the logic that it's about the size of the market available. Are we really saying more people buy Palms than iPhones or Mac computers...?

 

I can't imagine it's reflective of this hobby that there are more Palm users than iPhone or other smart phone users.

[Graham_Muz]

Simon

 

Putting aside the PC/ Mac OS issue, with respect to handsets I do not belive Hornby are saying there are more Palm than Android and iPhone users out there.

 

I was advised it was purely down to the development and approval process applied by the relevant platforms that enabled them to get the palm up and running first. The beta testing that we have (Mike Wild and myself) has enabled some of the user functionallty side of things to be ironed out before launching on Android and iPhone.

[melmerby]

Perhaps they'll do a version of Railmaster for the BBC computer next. I've got a model B, a Master and an Archimedes "languishing" in my spare room.

Unfortunately I dumped my bbcs a couple of years ago due to lack of room so will not be able to avail myself of this upgrade to Railmaster!

 

Keith

[S.A.C Martin]

Simon

 

Putting aside the PC/ Mac OS issue, with respect to handsets I do not belive Hornby are saying there are more Palm than Android and iPhone users out there.

 

I was advised it was purely down to the development and approval process applied by the relevant platforms that enabled them to get the palm up and running first. The beta testing that we have (Mike Wild and myself) has enabled some of the user functionallty side of things to be ironed out before launching on Android and iPhone.

 

Gotcha, thank you Graham, that does make a lot more sense.

[two tone green]

Why not make is web based like on RR&Co. Gets over platform issues and all you need is a browser.

 

Web based being using the web browser, not on line or on some cloud floating by. Just put in the IP address of the base, controller into the browser and it works. Certainly does on RR&Co and is very nice.

[AndrewC]

Still seems a very cack handed way of going about any sort of commercial product development. Write it for a platform that is practically extinct just to get to market faster? Then have to go back to square 1 to refactor the code into Android and IOS versions. Not to belittle Hornby but they really need someone with more savvy in the commercial IT sphere. If a product designer at a company like Fujitsu, Xerox, etc went down that path they'd be laughed at.

[Revolution Mike]

No, it's for running off an app on the iPhone I thought? There being no interest in following up with a full version for OSX.

 

Which is why I said there was some confusion. Simon K clearly says that an app for iOS will be developed. Somewhere you will still need an instance of Railmaster running for the iphone to talk to.

 

But surely Palm itself (given most Palm devices have been discontinued or are now under the HP brand, and are a very small proportion of the overall smart phone market) is a much smaller market than OSX as a whole?

 

You can't have it both ways. Simon Kohler states in his MREmag letter that there isn't the support for OSX. I could tell you categorically there isn't the support for Palm and it'll be a smaller market than targeting OSX.

 

Why are you mixing the two? Developing an app for Palm is very different from developing Railmaster (ie the full programme) for OSX.

 

I simply don't understand the breakdown in logic here. I quite agree in comparison to Windows, OSX reflects a smaller overall proportion of the market (but it is growing steadily), but why then develop the software for Palm devices at all? That doesn't make sense to me if we're going by the logic that it's about the size of the market available. Are we really saying more people buy Palms than iPhones or Mac computers...?

 

Because as I explained developing an app is relatively quick and easy (whether for Palm, Android or iOS - though there are varying degrees of approval needed). I suspect developing the Palm version cost Hornby very little in terms of development time.

 

There are two things being talked about here:

- Railmaster the piece of software which is only available for Windows

- Apps (for Palm, Android, iOS) which are just interfaces to the Railmaster software (not the actual software itself)

[Graham_Muz]

Red Death I am pretty certain I had already clarified as such.

[7013]

I am not a technocrat, but I am following this thread with interest (I did start it though). Mac are soon to release OSX Mountain Lion which from what I have seen on the demo integrates a lot of the iPhone/pad/pod and Mac functions, with IOS 6 which will further integrate the systems on its way as well, is there a way that Railmaster will be cross compatible or am I being Naive.

Having recently become a Mac user I wondered why I used PCs for so long, such a superb system.

All that said I look forward to Railmaster being available on my iPad and phone sooner rather than later. I have got a Palm somewhere but it was always a bit slow I suspect it would take about a week just to download Railmaster.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Mr Kohler comes across as being a bit out of touch on this one.

The likely uptake of Railmaster on Palm devices will surely be incredibly small, considering that the market for PDA's evaporated in the mid 00's.

The market for them was predominantly business led and they faded away as Blackberry's and then Smartphones became the weapon of choice in the business market.

I'm sure that the number languishing in the drawers of model railway enthusiasts will be so few as not worth the effort.

 

However, it is good news that they are planning Apps for Android and iOS devices. These devices are almost ubiquitous, with hundreds of millions in use worldwide and probably tens of millions in use in the UK alone.

 

It is disappointing that they've considered the Mac OSX market for Railmaster not worth bothering with, but then anyone savvy enough to own a Mac in preference to a Windoze computer will probably be savvy enough not to bother with Hornby's crack at DCC.

 

 

 

..

[7013]

I will use Railmaster with my iPhone/pad but my Mac screen is too big to lump about so would be impractical anyway, however SK is being very short sighted and I agree with Ron seemingly out of touch. If I could find my palm it would be to bin it.