Why Recycling is BAD for the Environment

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

We are on a very similar three wheelie bin scheme to that already mentioned by the stationmaster and others with automated sorting of recyclables and high temperature composting for the organic waste, which from inception got very good public acceptance, and immediately slashed the landfill percentage. The contractors do the work well too, very rare to see any spillage. From what I have read this appears to be emerging as a consensus standard. It probably is about time Parliament gave some direction via an enquiry, so that whatever scheme or schemes are proven to be working best are recommended for the economy of scale opportunity.

[DaveF]

Three wheelie bins here in Northumberland:

 

Brown for garden waste (optional, extra fee payable) - branches up to 10cm diameter can be included.

Blue for recycling: paper, some plastics, tins

Green non recyclables.

 

Collected fortnightly, little spillage unless we have an easterly gale off the sea in recycling weeks which can blow wheelie bins over!

 

Also a large recycling facility on the edge of town, very clean and pleasant to use, it accepts just about anything or, for a fee, big items can be collected by the council.

 

Different areas of the county have different coloured bins, dating back to when Borough Councils existed (we went to a Unitary County Council quite recently). Sensibly they haven't changed the bins, just gradually standardised what goes in each bin.

 

David

[pointstaken]

like Kenton, I'm old enough to remember the metal dustbins of the 50's, and the metal bin that stood on one street corner to collect left-over food for the local piggery. Most rubbish went in those bins, misshapen by the strenuous efforts of the local dustmen, so that the lids seldom fitted. Clang at 2AM as the local cats went on their nightly raiding party.

 

I have noticed that many manufacturers, e.g. Bosch, Black & Decker, etc, are using cardboard and papier-mache in their packaging, so making it all recyclable. But the problem of recycling plastics does need to be solved, as Kenton has pointed out. The problem of excessive packaging also needs resolution - ever tried opening a bubble pack of audio-visual equipment from China, without destroying the contents ?

 

Will councils in 50 years time be issuing licenses to mine old landfill sites, raising money that way ?

 

Dennis

[30801]

But, I am old enough to remember the dustbin collections in the 50's - very friendly - one metal dustbin that contained very little in the way of waste (no plastics, no throw away society) most organic matter was composted, paper was simply burned and added to the coal ash being dug in to the garden. Really just the empty tins - and now they would be "recycled" - much in the way they always have been.

 

What's all this about the 50's? I seem to recall doing all that stuff in the mid 80's until I became a student. For some reason I have bin amnesia up to 1996 when it was all wheelie bins.

 

Back when we had a metal bin we were a family of six and the one bin + fire did just fine. Now we are a family of three and have:

• a bin for paper, tins & glass
  
• a bin for plastic bottles & cardboard
  
• a compost bin
  
• a Greencone for non-compostible organic waste
  

Yet somehow the bin for whatever is left over still has more in it than our old metal bin.

 

There's just 'stuff' everywhere and I'm not sure where it all comes from.

[DLT]

I too can remember when milk was delivered to your doorstep in glass bottles and the empties were taken away, rather than large plastic containers that are used once and then thrown out. Likewise, beer and soft drinks came in bottles that you took back to the shop and got the deposit back. Vegetables came in a paper bag rather than a polystyrene tray wrapped in cellophane, etc. etc.

Not that I'm suggesting that we go back to the 1950s/60s methods and materials, but that sort of thinking is definitely needed.

 

The problem of excessive packaging also needs resolution - ever tried opening a bubble pack of audio-visual equipment from China, without destroying the contents ?

Likewise childrens toys; tried unpacking a Barbie Doll recently? (for my daughter, not for me!) masses of hard plastic with sharp edges requiring tools to open, stiff ties to untwist, and the hair is sewn in to the package. The result is a large pile of rubbish that has to go straight in the bin. An appalling creation of waste.

 

Following the "fridge mountains" of a few years ago, manufacturers who are falling over themselves to get us to replace our houshold white-goods/computers/TVs etc every few years, now have to take some responsibility for their disposal; the same should be done for the packaging. That would be a very effective way to get a reduction in waste creation.

 

Dave.

[10800]

If so, then one of the first places to start is with the manufacturers. Only plastics that are recyclable should be supplied and sold for consumer use and disposal.

 

Then any disposal of those consumed plastics should be a nationwide process that is fine tuned to cost as little and be simple. A consumer shouldn't need a degree in plastics recognition to pre-sort.

The same should apply to metals - just because it is too big to fit in a particular box shouldn't result in it not being recycled!

 

Agree with that in principle - 'we' (i.e. society) focus too much on the 'reuse' and 'recycle' when it should be on 'reduce'.

 

I have always composted organic waste as it has a clear benefit to me. All this other "environmental" nonsense does not have a clear benefit just inconvenience, cost and mess.

 

Are you saying you only agree with environmental action where it benefits you personally? Or is it just an objection to the current cack-handed system in many areas?

[Kenton]

Are you saying you only agree with environmental action where it benefits you personally?  Or is it just an objection to the current cack-handed system in many areas?

 

In a way both. I am not an "environmentalist" in any shape or form, but if there is no cost to me AND it makes sense to me then I am quite happy to go along with it. The lack of consistency across the country simply makes the whole thing a nonsense and the seeming total disinterest on having any plan to eliminate, or even reduce, at source the complexity doesn't help. I do not believe in the saving of world resources or in the we can change the climate lobby although I do believe that throwing metal into land fill seems daft from every respect.

Recycling has to be simple and require little to no effort then everyone will do it.

 

But the last thing I am interested in is reducing my standard of living to the level of a third world country simply for their benefit.

[kevinlms]

And another thing, what exactly are we saving when everything has to be rinsed clean before recycling, thereby wasting water, heating etc? Does the energy used not count when it's in relation to recycling?

 

So what exactly is the alternative? If you don't recycle, then everything has to be produced from virgin material & that must surely take energy and mean more raw materials have to dug up, trees cut down and more oil used to make plastic items. Often these products are imported from overseas sources and shipped around the globe.

 

Rinsing clean can be done using for example water remaining from washing dishes etc, it certainly doesn't have to be cleaned to medical standards.

 

Kevin Martin

[iL Dottore]

Surely it's not beyond the wit and ingenuity of the land that gave the world the Spinning Jenny, The Forth Bridge, The First "Proper" Underground, IKB and the HiWatt 100W Amp head (to name a few amazing British inventions) to have a coherent and sensible recycling policy?

 

Now the Swiss....

 

In my Gemeinde (council, basically), my rubbish is collected every Monday. (you have to use a biodegradable bag and add a CHF2.50 label to it), cuttings and waste from the garden are collected every Tuesday (a fee is involved), Wednesdays alternate between paper collection and cardboard collection (no charge). A few Thursdays during the year there is a scrap metal collection. The glass (white brown and green) and aluminium recycling area is nearby, each has its own underground bin (fed through a tube at the top - very satisfying to hear the glass smash when recycling bottles) and when full each bin is taken away (no dumping it all into one lorry...) and recycled. Additionally, there is the official Gemeiende recycling area (open Tuesday - Saturday) where you can get rid of anything from old paint and thinners to bedsteads to old electronic gear at no charge. What is dumped gets recycled as is, or broken up and recycled or disposed of properly (which I think involves incineration in special incinerators for certain things).

 

They really do make it easy for us to recycle (and the Swiss really do use a lot of recycled material in packaging, paper towels, glasswear etc.)

 

And my Gemeinde is nothing out of the ordinary...

 

iD

[kevinlms]

Three wheelie bins here in Northumberland:

 

Brown for garden waste (optional, extra fee payable) - branches up to 10cm diameter can be included.

Blue for recycling: paper, some plastics, tins

Green non recyclables.

 

Collected fortnightly, little spillage unless we have an easterly gale off the sea in recycling weeks which can blow wheelie bins over!

 

Also a large recycling facility on the edge of town, very clean and pleasant to use, it accepts just about anything or, for a fee, big items can be collected by the council.

 

Different areas of the county have different coloured bins, dating back to when Borough Councils existed (we went to a Unitary County Council quite recently). Sensibly they haven't changed the bins, just gradually standardised what goes in each bin.

 

David

 

 

The common thread here is the variations of the scheme - as in the number & colours of the different wheelie bins & what goes in them. What happens when people move, suburb or city? They could be 'good' recyclers, but because of the fact the bins are different from place to place, could easily mean that the wrong stuff goes in the bins, thus contaminating the whole truck load - if its considered bad enough the whole load goes for landfill.

 

Also many people think that their left over fish & chips or whatever are somehow recyclable, when clearly they are not.

 

There needs to be some level of standardisation.

 

Kevin Martin

[petethemole]

I'm not sure whether some councils think that presorting waste int umpreen small containers saves labour, but I doubt it. On a recent visit to North London (not sure which borough, Barnet or Enfield) I saw a recycling collection in progress. A crew of 4 or 5 men + driver, painstakingly empying small plastic boxes ito separate comartment of the lorry. I'm sure that concentrating the sorting in one location and doing it in bulk is much more effective

[jonny777]

I too can remember when milk was delivered to your doorstep in glass bottles and the empties were taken away, rather than large plastic containers that are used once and then thrown out.

 

Good grief, I must be living in a timewarp - because my milk is still delivered like that. Although now the milkman only comes on alternate days because presumably he does another round on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays.

[Kenton]

Also many people think that their left over fish & chips or whatever are somehow recyclable, when clearly they are not.

 

Wrong. They can be and always used to be used for feeding pigs. Though some vegans might object to pigs eating fish, or any scraps of cooked food. But then they probably object to pigs anyway.

 

uncooked food waste (potato peelings, etc) can be composted, why is there so much food waste anyway? Do people just buy it to throw away?

 

There is probably nothing around that should end up in landfill. Certainly anything supplied to the consumer should be recyclable. But it does because everyone expects the consumer to handle it.

[edcayton]

Also many people think that their left over fish & chips or whatever are somehow recyclable, when clearly they are not.

 

 

 

 

Our council gave us a little green "bin" to put food waste in, and hence in to the big brown wheelie bin (mainly garden waste and cardboard). Have I been doing the wrong thing for years?

 

Ed

[The Stationmaster]

Wrong. They can be and always used to be used for feeding pigs. Though some vegans might object to pigs eating fish, or any scraps of cooked food. But then they probably object to pigs anyway.

 

It is illegal, and has been for some years, to feed waste food to pigs - introduced as a precaution against Swine Fever following a major outbreak which was traced to infected impoorted ham scraps of which had been fed to pigs.

[Revolution Mike]

In my humble opinion The British attitude to recycling is somewhat laughable.

 

Those small plastic boxes are also ludicrous - not only are they of insufficient size. Give everyone a wheelie bins instead and the problem is much reduced. Also, if the bin men where my parents live are anything to go by, what is the point of seperating everything given that they are just going to chuck it all in one truck?!?

 

Agreed - sadly for too many in our nation our attitude is one of I can't be bothered.

 

On bin sizes I am not sure there is a one size fits all solution. Small bins can work eg for batteries or household hazardous waste. Equally I never got anywhere near to filling my green waste bin.

 

Although bins may be emptied into one truck they often go in separate compartments (apart from some absurd cases).

 

And another thing, what exactly are we saving when everything has to be rinsed clean before recycling, thereby wasting water, heating etc? Does the energy used not count when it's in relation to recycling?

 

Yes, the energy does count in lifecycle analysis but you can relatively easily deduce that recycling metals and glass is much more energy efficient (even allowing for washing etc) than virgin material extraction and processing.

 

What amazes me is the difference between local authorities.

 

The difference between two councils just a few miles apart is staggering.

 

Completley agree!

 

Recycling has to be simple and require little to no effort then everyone will do it.

 

But the last thing I am interested in is reducing my standard of living to the level of a third world country simply for their benefit.

 

Well experience of other countries tells you that the first statement isn't true.

 

On the second statement, I really fail to see how sorting your rubbish in anyway reduces your standard of living to that of a third world country.

 

I'm sure that concentrating the sorting in one location and doing it in bulk is much more effective

 

Unfortunately not - sorting at source is much more effective as it massively reduces cross contamination of different types of recyclables and also helps recyclables stay free from contamination by non-recyclable waste.

 

Cheers, Mike

[10800]

There is probably nothing around that should end up in landfill. Certainly anything supplied to the consumer should be recyclable. But it does because everyone expects the consumer to handle it.

 

Supermarkets obviously encourage buying on a whim - that's their objective - whereas we used to go to the butcher, greengrocer etc with a shopping list and have it wrapped in paper and put in brown bags. A while ago there seemed to be a campaign running for people to unpack all their goods at the till and leave the supermarket to deal with it - doesn't reduce the waste as such but it ought to have raised awareness in the supermarket and could hopefully have been thrown back at the manufacturer.

 

So we get the double whammy of excess food that never gets eaten and useless packaging. I know we should resist the former and well done to all who succeed.

[Baby Deltic]

What a lot of people don't realise is that the reason they are collecting plastic for recycing is to make enough Lego bricks to build plastic dustcarts. These wil then collect more plastic so that they can start breeding. Here's the secret prototype:

 

[edcayton]

That is exactly the point! Half of that should have gone to recycling.

 

Ed

[bcnPete]

Some of us still do, and get the milk in bottles on the doorstep from a farm I can see outta the window

 

...and is the dog fetching the newspaper and bringing your slippers too Mickey?...

[jonny777]

my bold

 

 

Some of us still do, and get the milk in bottles on the doorstep from a farm I can see outta the window

 

St Mickey

 

And most of what the supermarkets laughingly describe as milk these days, sold in large plastic containers, is nothing more that white coloured water from hormone pumped cows that have never seen outside, let alone a grass field.

 

Why? Because it's cheap. Which is all that seems to matter to many people.

[Enterprisingwestern]

So what exactly is the alternative? If you don't recycle, then everything has to be produced from virgin material & that must surely take energy and mean more raw materials have to dug up, trees cut down and more oil used to make plastic items. Often these products are imported from overseas sources and shipped around the globe.

 

Rinsing clean can be done using for example water remaining from washing dishes etc, it certainly doesn't have to be cleaned to medical standards.

 

Kevin Martin

 

The alternative is to concentrate on not having the packaging problem in the first place, but as others have alluded to, it isn't that simple.

Also, I can't get in the dishwasher to rinse things during the wash cycle .

Mike.

[37255]

One of the (few!) things the local council does quite well imo. One bin for landfill, and as many bags as you want for recycling material - these can take anything bar food waste. As a result, all but the very laziest residents get a decent amount recycled. Makes more sense imo to send everything recyclable to one central location to be sorted, rather than having a mind-boggling system of coloured bins and half a dozen lorries collecting them!

[edcayton]

Black wheelie bin=non-recyclable

 

Brown wheelie bin=garden waste+cardboare+food waste (no pet waste although this makes compost which we can buy)

 

Red bih = glass but not broken

 

Blue box = plastic bottles (no tops) and tins

 

Black box =paper (no junk mail, no phone books or catalogues)

 

Little green bin = food waste to put in brown wheelie bin

 

Ed

[jonny777]

 

 

Will councils in 50 years time be issuing licenses to mine old landfill sites, raising money that way ?

 

Dennis

 

I think that something along these lines has already been proposed, in order to recover valuable metals in electrical appliances from the past.