sub39h Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Depends what you mean by working pantographs. If you mean pans that go up and down then to me that is vital, the HJ86 one didn't without major tweaking, Hornby moulded pans in the lowered position on some locos... I want pans that raise under DCC control! I don't care if they don't pick up power though... Andi I was referring specifically to being able to pick up electricity. Having a pan that lowers and raises with DCC would be cool and I would be willing to pay extra for a model that can do this. Maybe it could be one of the differences between a main range and RailRoad model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan452 Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 And so on-to the Bachmann thread.................. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 answer=not now! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakydoke Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Tough Hornby! You had your chance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multiple identity account Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Silly Hornby... you had a good chance to update a model that's been in your stable for many decades.... If you want to be a leader in the RTR segment learn to listen to your customers!!! You are losing my faith now Hornby. Terrible at judging what a customer wants. All you can do now is either do a Class 86, 87 or 92 to the standard of your Class 60. Or try an make a better model of the Class 90 like how you challenged Bachmann with the 08, A4, B1 and 4MT (maybe...just maybe then you will turn some heads). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted July 21, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 21, 2014 To look at it another way, the overhead fans get what they want, albeit in differently-coloured boxes than they were expecting. Hornby are left facing an open goal just right for a 47xx and/or S15 (or another of the few popular steam prototypes not already covered) and completely ignored by Bachmann. Win - win situation for the customer? John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I doubt Hornby are that worried. Paint it in some pretty liveries stick it in the Railroad range at a good price point, they will probably still sell more than the Bachmann version. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakydoke Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I doubt Hornby are that worried. Paint it in some pretty liveries stick it in the Railroad range at a good price point, they will probably still sell more than the Bachmann version. The point is that Hornby have lost a huge amount of credibility by having an increasing percentage of their output consisting of outdated, often crude and newer "dumbed down" models (or should I say toys?). Not to mention the reduced quality. They've certainly lost the faith of most of those modelling the various D&E eras. All of their own making though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 The point is that Hornby have lost a huge amount of credibility by having an increasing percentage of their output consisting of outdated, often crude and newer "dumbed down" models (or should I say toys?). Not to mention the reduced quality. They've certainly lost the faith of most of those modelling the various D&E eras. All of their own making though. It's a very subjective viewpoint though. Prior to 2005, 100% of Hornby's D&E effort was 'dumbed down'. Since then, we've had the 08, the 31, the 50, the 60. and the 67. In between they still churn out 86s, 73s, 47s, Deltics from old tools. Some modellers actually like some of the old tooling as a basis for detailing. In terms of wider society (and even those that just 'play with trains') it really won't 'affect their credibility'. If Hornby had for years made nothing but exclusively high quality scale models for adult enthusiasts and then suddenly marketed some toy-like model on the same basis I think there would be more of an issue. But Hornby's range has for years featured a mish mash of super scale models at one end right through to toys. I for one am very happy that Bachmann are doing a scale class 90. I don't really see the need to try and poke sticks at Hornby because they didn't! If they make a model that suits my needs, I buy it. If they don't, I won't. But one thing I do not (nor have ever) expected of Hornby is that they will exclusively occupy the same market segment that Bachmann, Heljan, Rapido etc are in, because the don't, and have never done so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon H Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 In regards to working pantographs, I feel that that is utterly pointless. To paraphrase another member, if we don't have real boilers or mini diesel engines in our steam and diesel models (or indeed working 3rd rail electrics) then why on earth do we need working pantographs? Missed this first time round... Working pantographs and 3rd rail equipment are desirable for those of us who make the effort to do things properly and use them for their intended purpose. For me, anything less would be utterly pointless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I doubt Hornby are that worried. Paint it in some pretty liveries stick it in the Railroad range at a good price point, they will probably still sell more than the Bachmann version. Hornby's focus has been very clearly 'steam age' for some time. They have tried a few diesel types to their best standard - and aren't there mk2s to come? - but it is the steam era locos and coaches which have been their staples; and barring the recent wobble, well received critically and commercially. If there is a market for it, and you are good at filling it, then concentrate on it. And exactly as Bigherb, they will get class 90 sales on the back of the marketing of Bachmann's better version. I was told by a retailer a couple of years ago that he sold more Hornby 9Fs and Deltics than the clearly superior Bachmann models, when the choice was available to his customers. THE brand name in UK OO, and a lower price? That is still potent as a combination for a large proportion of the customer base, whatever those of us looking primarily at the quality of the model might think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 they will get class 90 sales on the back of the marketing of Bachmann's better version. Funny you should say that, I was thinking what to get my nephew for his birthday and Bachmanns announcement has brought the CL90 to the top of my radar, thankfully Hornby make one suitable for a 10 year old. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 In some ways I prefer Bachmann to do the job as that means there is a greater chance of it also coming out in N gauge via Farish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 still leaves the class 87 vunerable to somebody thinking hmmm we'll have a bash at a new version and then us ending up potentially with a hash like the Heljan 86. hopefully Bachmann see the 87 as the same "low hanging fruit". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Working pantographs and 3rd rail equipment are desirable for those of us who make the effort to do things properly and use them for their intended purpose. For me, anything less would be utterly pointless. Not wishing to be offensive Gordon, but others will see that "...do things properly..." as being only certain people's personal opinion, or even self delusional to think it's anything near authentic. Personally I think if that's your bag it's good thing, but ultimately it's a pointless exercise and not necessary unless doing it for the heck of it. In my book (entirely personal of course), I don't think it makes one jot of difference to being authentic or prototypically more accurate. Anyway, this is way OT and should be discussed elsewhere. Apologies folks ! . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 still leaves the class 87 vunerable to somebody thinking hmmm we'll have a bash at a new version and then us ending up potentially with a hash like the Heljan 86. hopefully Bachmann see the 87 as the same "low hanging fruit". I am not sure that anyone is guaranteed not to make a hash of it. Bachmann have had a good track record recently but accidents can happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I am not sure that anyone is guaranteed not to make a hash of it. Bachmann have had a good track record recently but accidents can happen.but nothing is guaranteed in life except taxes and death. point is.....if you were a betting man..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 but nothing is guaranteed in life except taxes and death. point is.....if you were a betting man..... It's the other way round, "death and taxes'....unless your running with the no.2 cab in front? . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Working pantographs and 3rd rail equipment are desirable for those of us who make the effort to do things properly and use them for their intended purpose. For me, anything less would be utterly pointless. Good for you. Me, I'll continue to bumble along and go for the overall effect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Working pantographs and 3rd rail equipment are desirable for those of us who make the effort to do things properly and use them for their intended purpose. For me, anything less would be utterly pointless. I take it your trains are used for the purpose of carrying tiny people about for work, education and leisure then. To not be used for a train's intended purpose would be utterly pointless, surely Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted July 22, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 22, 2014 The only way Hornby will duplicate a Class 90 to the standard expected from Bachmann's is if they already have one advanced beyond the point of no return themselves. They have far more to worry about a than starting turf war over a prototype they have already made a lot of money out of. Their existing modest effort will continue to sell well against a higher spec competitor costing more than twice the price, for a couple of very good reasons 1. Not everybody wants (or can afford) the high-spec stuff. 2. A lot of D&E modellers actually enjoy starting off with a cheaper model and detailing it up themselves. Those are market segments traditionally served by Hornby (and Lima). I don't anticipate Bachmann going after either any time soon. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 1. Not everybody wants (or can afford) the high-spec stuff. 2. A lot of D&E modellers actually enjoy starting off with a cheaper model and detailing it up themselves. Bingo! I have absolutely no problem with RTR out of the box but these days my wallet struggles to keep up. It's also remarkably satisfying to take a lower priced model and spend a little quality time with it improving the detail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 maybe price up some detailing packs,paints, transfers, glazing and sundry materials on top of the cheaper version. i wouldnt be surprised then if the price differential wasnt as wide as some might assume and you still might want to consider a new motor or a lighting kit and even then it may not have the heavyweight traction of a 4 axle 8 wheel drive version. its horses for courses at the end of the day....id rather my locos be top spec out of the box as i have enough on my plate detailing my rolling stock that doesnt need half as much work/expenditure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted July 22, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 22, 2014 Missed this first time round... Working pantographs and 3rd rail equipment are desirable for those of us who make the effort to do things properly and use them for their intended purpose. For me, anything less would be utterly pointless. And you are not the first RMwebber to strive for such authenticity. But it is largely about personal satisfaction, since I doubt that I'd know, if you didn't tell me, that you were using such means of current collection, were I to observe your layout. A chap called oldlugger left RMweb in a flurry of recriminations when others told him he was wasting his efforts, or similar sneering, a propos his working third rail. Hopefully you will weather any such storm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I take it your trains are used for the purpose of carrying tiny people about for work, education and leisure then. To not be used for a train's intended purpose would be utterly pointless, surely Unless it's a 1950s branch line; in which case they will trundle around mostly empty, losing shedloads of money until a tiny Dr Beeching shuts them down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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