Grantham - the Streamliner years

[micklner]

Thompsons !! extend the era to 1948 ish you can a couple of Peppercorns too !!

[LNER4479]

Peppercorns we do have

 

But the green one requires the layout to be forward dated to 2009 which might be pushing things a tad!

[islandbridgejct]

Tony Wright has two different T shirts on ??

One for the Coronation, one for the Silver Jubilee.

[workev2000]

I can't remember seeing any description of the WTT for the layout in the thread, so I'd love to know if you've developed one yet. I know from my research in the Winter 1956 timetable there were almost 400 movements a day at Grantham, and that excludes engine changes and shunting duties. I assume that you will need to rationalise things, so how have you gone about doing this?

 

I'm also fascinated by the interlocking of signals (and point work?), have you had help with the interlocking plan, or deduced this yourself?

 

Ian

[LNER4479]

Hi Ian,

 

No description of WTT so far on this thread - but there is one (as Jonathan will attest to!). It currently runs to 185 lines over a full 24 hours. Not sure if that exactly matches your 400 figure but I do know that I'm still adding to it. Passenger workings are easy (one visit to NRM Search Engine was enough to capture the complete summer 1938 sequence, including the branches); it's the goods workings that are the challenge. Search engine largely drew a blank (I believe that the LNER Society is a better source of goods WTT workings) but I'm gradually adding the info bit by bit - I suspect my 185 lines will grow to nearer 300 in time.

 

From this core info, I'm deriving a representative sequence to cover a daytime period that captures all streamliners (six movements, first being the Up Silver Jubilee at @1230) and starts with the down Flying Scotsman (the infamous 10.0am from King's Cross). I'm planning to slim down the local workings, otherwise they might get a bit monotonous for an exhibition presentation- the Nottingham service was basically hourly, even pre-war, for example.

 

No info on thread yet about signalling and interlocking either - I plan on posting something later in the year to tie in with the autumn 'project' which will feature two new signals and complete most of the rest of the North box wiring. But, yes, I do work it all out for myself, which I quite enjoy  . Time well spent during the obligatory summer sun, sea and sand holiday!

 

I'm working on installing the turntable at the moment so I must away!

Edited July 31, 2013 by LNER4479

[Obi-Jiff Kenobi]

But, yes, I do work it all out for myself, which I quite enjoy  . Time well spent during the obligatory summer sun, sea and sand holiday!

Probably more enjoyable than reading the latest from Jeffrey Archer/Tom Clancy/Dan Brown/Tony Parsons*

 

*delete as applicable, depending on age and preference!

[Tony Wright]

So who is the mystery man wielding that rather professional looking camera equipment....?

 

IMG_7048.JPG

Why, it's none other than Mr Tony Wright himself.

 

 

Thank you 'Robert'; I hope BRM's readers will, in time, enjoy what the camera could see from that angle.

 

 

Tony Wright has two different T shirts on ??

 

Hopefully I am not unique amongst modellers in taking a change of clothes and a bar of soap on my travels.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Tony Wright

[LNER4479]

Wowwwwwwwwww!! 

[Obi-Jiff Kenobi]

Wowwwwwwwwww!! 

Yeah, I know - a bar of soap...

[Mallard60022]

How I love that signal. When was it replaced as I'm sure I didn't see that in 1962?

P

[LNER4479]

How I love that signal. When was it replaced as I'm sure I didn't see that in 1962?

P

I'm not sure it actually survived the war actually. Was an early 'light on stick' casualty. I can't recall seeing a BR-era photo with it in.

 

Mrs 4479 skits me mercilessly as I referred to it as a 'signal to die for'   What was so funny about that?  Do you think I should send her up that ladder to top up the lamps?

Edited August 5, 2013 by LNER4479

[LNER4479]

Ah well, need to get back to the grindstone after all this excitement...

 

Work resumes on the turntable.

 

Having found the centre of the pit (to within a few mill.), the centre pivot is (temporarily) fitted in position

 

A piece of 40thou (1mm) plasticard is cut oversize and the girder assembly glued on to it

 

With the table now located in the (fixed) centre pivot, a common reference point is used to accurately mark...

 

... and cut the final shape.

 

The same process is used to accurately locate the dead centre of the table. By drilling through and down to locate the centre pivot, I reckon this should be plumb perpendicular to the base? (took me ages to work that one out  )

 

Now I'm permanently locating the centre pivot, sunk a few mill. down into the plywood

 

Some more bits from the Dapol kit being used.

 

The supporting wheels are well outboard on the original (GW) version, but pictures of the Grantham table show them tucked underneath. A little bit of careful work with the hacksaw and file creates a suitable mounting point for the liquid poly to be applied

 

Now a polo mint shaped piece of 6mm plywood has been cut to shape as the support for the circular rail.

 

With the circular rail fitted, a passing K3 tries it for size

 

(to be continued...)

Edited August 3, 2013 by LNER4479

[gr.king]

Nice one! I'll watch this turntable costruction with great interest. It wouldn't be a bad idea for me to consider replacing my own table with something better - it's a fairly basic scratch-built effort that owes me very little after more than 15 years of use, and your method appears so far to have the great advantages of economy of construction combined with use of ready made parts for some of the awkward bits.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Your woodworking skills are awesome - don't fancy making my benchwork and baseboards for me when my shed finally arrives do you?  

[JCL]

 

So I was in a different reading room on the Internet when I saw a photo of a brass painted loco. I immediately thought of the Grantham Ghost Train...

 

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=266047&nseq=594

 

Ok, they call it gold, but it's not you know...

Edited August 4, 2013 by JCL

[LNER4479]

The turntable installation continues...


The deck rails are constructed from two 280mm ('70ft') lengths of code 100, soldered to PCB sleepers. The Peco sleepers hold them to gauge whilst being soldered


Holes for 10BA bolts are drilled in each of the 4 sleepers and the necessary cuts made in the top surface of the PCB to avoid a short.


The contact pick-up wires (nickel silver) are soldered to the underside of the rails...


...pushed through corresponding holes in the deck...


...and through matching holes in the base of the deck, where they are bent into their contact shape. This view also shows the washer and nut on the end of the 10BA bolt (see below)


Back at site, the approach track (cut to exact length) has been laid to the well.


The position of the deck rails can now be 'fine tuned' to ensure the same gap whichever way round the table is. The 10BA bolt is a tight fit in the sleepers but the corresponding hole in the deck is deliberately oversize (with a washer and nut on the underside) to allow some adjustment.


At this point, I have to report a 'faux pas' (just to prove that it isn't all plain sailing!)   I made an error in the construction of the table by fixing the carrying wheels BEFORE fixing the supporting (circular) rail in position and they were running off the rail in places. My fix for this is to glue curved lengths of 10thou plasticard, 3mm wide, on top of the rail to allow for this misalignment.


Hopefully this picture gives an idea! The misalignment of the Dapol mould (a bit of a hazard these days given their longevity) has resulted in non perfect wheels in any case! Some form of plasticard insert would have been necessary anyway as the table was rocking slightly indicating that the carrying wheels weren't properly touching the carrying rail - this would have caused a problem as locos moved on and off the table. My 'mod' has solved the problem for now, but it might be beneficial in the long run to fit better (metal) wheels.


With that attended to, I've now soldered up the contact strips for the base of the well.


Showing the completed pickups and the contact strip assembly


With a few temporary wires in place, time to test it out. Mrs4479 happened to call in to see 'how it was goin?' so got roped in to be the driver of the first engine to try out the table. After a few minor tweaks of the contact pickups - success!  


'Osprey' goes for a spin (handraulic operated for now)


And moves back off again. I think this view shows quite well how the respective rail levels line up. The full weight of the A4 loco (the heavy bit!) is bearing down on the table at this point but it's nice n level with no discernible bump as she makes her way off. The plasticard insert beneath the carrying wheels seems to have done its job (for now!)


No show without Punch   'Robert' gets in on the act - he's a bit of a devil you know...

to be continued

(although there's a bit of boring point motor wiring to do first, as the lead to the turntable is off a live frog three-way point)

Edited August 7, 2013 by LNER4479

[coronach]

Hi Robert,

The layout is coming on really well - and what a coup to get a Tony Wright photo session!

 

I am really impressed by the pointwork complexity you have achieved using proprietry track. 

 

I was enjoying a look at the 'The far north line' pages the other day.  The guy building it has decided to add cosmetic chairs to his points.  Have you thought about doing this - I guess it would be a massive task on Grantham but it would certainly add to the overall visual image.

 

Here is a photo copied from the far north line pages showing the effect before the chairs are painted.....

 

 

Another feature that I enjoy on my layout is the sound of wheels on rails.  I have filed a 'U' shaped notch in the rail head everywhere that there would be a pair of rail joints (every 60ft on plain line and additional positions in pointwork).  Get it right and the effect is amazing - especially when trains pass through complex pointwork.  Care must be taken not to weaken the rails - just enough so that a wheel has something to hit.  I first came across this on the Alton layout exhibited at York about 20 years ago.  You get the sound without digital electronics!!

 

Coronach

 

 

 

[Barry O]

Looking good and very handy going through this step by step - with a new layout to be built the Airfix turntable has been located and will be used!

 

digitraulic works well - how are you going to motorise it please?

 

Barry

[Mallard60022]

Now here we have some classic modelling. That 'table' is a work of art mate. 

In the real world, when did it finally 'die' and they put in the triangle?

Phil 

Edited August 6, 2013 by Mallard60022

[LNER4479]

Hi Robert,

 

I was enjoying a look at the 'The far north line' pages the other day.  The guy building it has decided to add cosmetic chairs to his points.  Have you thought about doing this - I guess it would be a massive task on Grantham but it would certainly add to the overall visual image.

 

 

 

Another feature that I enjoy on my layout is the sound of wheels on rails.  I have filed a 'U' shaped notch in the rail head everywhere that there would be a pair of rail joints (every 60ft on plain line and additional positions in pointwork).  Get it right and the effect is amazing - especially when trains pass through complex pointwork.  Care must be taken not to weaken the rails - just enough so that a wheel has something to hit.  I first came across this on the Alton layout exhibited at York about 20 years ago.  You get the sound without digital electronics!!

 

Thanks 60093,

 

I'm a 'lurker' on the Far North line thread myself and noted with interest his comments on the Peco points versus his SMP (I think?) track. A viable modification to Grantham? ...er...no, well not at least for me. I'm more concerned with the overall look of the track configuration and am happy with it as it is, having undertaken a certain amount of blending in already (several visitors have expressed surprise that it is Code100 and not Code75)

 

But, yes, up for creating the diddly-dums! Definitely on the 'to do' list that one. I may also stick dummy fishplates on beneath each 'joint' as I think that would be a worthwhile addition to the look.

[LNER4479]

Looking good and very handy going through this step by step - with a new layout to be built the Airfix turntable has been located and will be used!

 

digitraulic works well - how are you going to motorise it please?

 

Barry

Aha, now you're in danger of calling my bluff, as I sail into unchartered territory   - I've made several turntables over the years (hopefully this one will be the best so far) but none of them have been motorised to date. The nearest I've come to it is the Gowhole turntable which has a Meccano mechanism turned by hand(!)

 

Plan A is to buy a pre-assembled motor/gearbox kit and work it in conjunction with a micro-switch and press-to-make override button. It's only a simple 180deg turn (ie not a segmented roundhouse) so I'm hoping I can manage that. My worry is that my Dad has used a similar kit with his Peco turntable and it caused problems after a few years. Watch this space for now...

 

Now here we have some classic modelling. That 'table' is a work of art mate. 

In the real world, when did it finally 'die' and they put in the triangle?

Phil 

You're too kind, Mr Duck. Looking forward to seeing you turn up on your running-in turn from Donny and going for a quick spin

 

According to research material unearthed, the real thing 'died' in 1950. The foundations for the centre pivot collapsed and after a couple of goes to repair they 'gave up' and installed the triangle instead. Surprisingly, the table itself was little damaged and was transferred to Melton Constable of all places (can't think they'd've had much use for a table over 50' in those parts but there you go!). After the M&GN closure of 1959, the table was then installed at King's Cross (not sure if that was Top Shed or the station) where it ended its days.

Edited August 7, 2013 by LNER4479

[Barry O]

Aha, now you're in danger of calling my bluff, as I sail into unchartered territory   - I've made several turntables over the years (hopefully this one will be the best so far) but none of them have been motorised to date. The nearest I've come to it is the Gowhole turntable which has a Meccano mechanism turned by hand(!)

 

Plan A is to buy a pre-assembled motor/gearbox kit and work it in conjunction with a micro-switch and press-to-make override button. It's only a simple 180deg turn (ie not a segmented roundhouse) so I'm hoping I can manage that. My worry is that my Dad has used a similar kit with his Peco turntable and it caused problems after a few years. Watch this space for now...

FMR do a kit - don't know what its like. All the 4mm ones I have used ( generally built by Mike Edge) have a motor in between the girders driving the wheels to turn the table. Bob Harper in O, On2 and On3 has turntables that only do 180 degrees and then go back the way they came so that you don't worry about having slip rings etc for contacts for the rail.

[gr.king]

Re: turntable again. Velly intellesting......

 

On the matter of making life easier in connection with points, in order to save lots of copper-clad or other forms of hand-building and yet avoid the (to my eye) unsatisfactory crowded mini-sleepering and diminutive chairs of OO Peco, I'm now toying with the idea of replacment sections of chaired timbering to go under Peco points, cast in resin, but I'm a long way off doing anything practical yet. The Peco arrangements around the toe, the pivot points for the switch rails, and around the crossing (frog) would have to be left undisturbed but previous work has shown that these can be disguised. If I can make the bases easy to fit but adequate to preserve the structure of the point, AND perhaps at the same time allow for flexing of the geometry to get flowing trackwork, this might offer a reasonable compromise given Peco and other manufacturers' total intransigence on the matter of proper OO steam-era British pointwork. I feel incensed about the fact that we have to put up with track for the OO mass market that is definitely wrong for the British idiom, when the much less popular O gauge gets Peco pointwork that looks right! My work, if it ever happens, will definitely cater for code 75 in order to make the ready made pointwork visually more compatible with SMP or C&L flexi-track. If others wish to try to apply the technique to code 100 it will be for them to sort out how to do it.

Edited August 7, 2013 by gr.king

[Mallard60022]

1950 - blimey.

I think I remember reading that it eventually went to the X stabling point.

P

[Ben Alder]

Hi Robert,

The layout is coming on really well - and what a coup to get a Tony Wright photo session!

 

I am really impressed by the pointwork complexity you have achieved using proprietry track. 

 

I was enjoying a look at the 'The far north line' pages the other day.  The guy building it has decided to add cosmetic chairs to his points.  Have you thought about doing this - I guess it would be a massive task on Grantham but it would certainly add to the overall visual impact.

 

Coronach

I noticed my mention here the other day, and intended to reply sooner- look in now and then, but spent  a couple of nights reading through the thread with great interest- so much space! - but this has to be measured against that other precious asset- time- and I think you have the right balance for such an impressive set up with the Peco track.Despite its glaring shortcomings, it works, and removes a lot of barriers to progress quickly. Layout building is always a compromise, and everyone strikes a balance suitable to their own priorities, which can seem sometimes questionable to viewers, but we all know our own strengths and weaknesses in the hobby, and if it is going to be enjoyable, then this have to be a factor in the build. My own set up is tiny compared to this, and much of the viewing will be fairly close up, so the Peco points are far to visible to ignore, hence my mods. I wouldn't begin to start doing it on a layout  like this, but it is is a stunning recreation of an express line, and  the eye will be drawn to the moving trains rather than the minutiae as is the case for me.