Grantham - the Streamliner years

[stewartingram]

Osborns do a shunting horse:

 

OSBOO20 Shunting Horse and Handler Painted (osbornsmodels.com)

[LNER4479]

5 hours ago, gr.king said:

I see that you too have some vintage Humbrol paints. Mine include some that still have the original "Enamel" branding on the tin, and the old Marfleet factory phone number. I imagine some of yours do too.

There's some of older vintage than that in the main paint box. Some probably not opened for 30-40 years - not sure what I'd find if I ever did try opening them!

 

5 hours ago, gr.king said:

I am not volunteering, but it occurs to me that one way to animate the horse would be to articulate the legs (using very free-moving joints) and pin the hooves of each pair to a transparent plastic disc, like a bicycle wheel, hoping that the discs (bearing the weight of the horse) actually rotate rather than skid as the creature moves along the road surface. I'm not sure how you would set up the correct gait for the horse without good equine knowledge, nor whether the two discs would remain in phase to maintain that gait...

I did give it some thought (along the lines you describe) ... before deciding that it would greatly eat in to time I couldn't afford to spend, with significant uncertainty as to possible degree of success.

 

I do have an idea for one further vehicle for the road system that might include elements of animation over and above the basic miniature mechanics of propelling itself along. Watch this space ... although probably not for some while yet.

 

[cctransuk]

30 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

There's some of older vintage than that in the main paint box. Some probably not opened for 30-40 years - not sure what I'd find if I ever did try opening them!

 

 

In my experience - something of way better quality than the current product!

 

A piece of bent wire in a minidrill should return the settled contents to an excellent paint - provided the tin lid was airtight when replaced.

 

CJI.

[gr.king]

1 hour ago, LNER4479 said:

There's some of older vintage than that in the main paint box. Some probably not opened for 30-40 years - not sure what I'd find if I ever did try opening them!

 

I did give it some thought (along the lines you describe) ... before deciding that it would greatly eat in to time I couldn't afford to spend, with significant uncertainty as to possible degree of success.

 

I do have an idea for one further vehicle for the road system that might include elements of animation over and above the basic miniature mechanics of propelling itself along. Watch this space ... although probably not for some while yet.

 

I can envisage other problems too, apart from the large amount of time that you correctly suggest it might take, even if you could get the legs satisfactorily articulated, consistently driven by the discs, and correctly in-phase to simulate the proper gait: while the shafts of the cart would keep the horse upright on its "bicycle", there's no low-tech method I can think of to make the transparent discs virtually invisible. If you leave them shiny (and therefore clear) reflections off the surfaces will give the game away, if you abrade or dull-coat them to kill the reflections they'll lose some of their transparency. What would really be needed is ultra-thin rigid plastic with a multi-layer vacuum deposited anti-reflection coating on both sides, and I doubt that such a thing can be had by mere modellers on realistic budgets. You'd have to keep it free from dust, finger prints and scratches too as they'd would show up very strongly....

[LNER4479]

OK. Having now more or less caught up with pre-Leeds preparations, here's what I've been up to in more recent weeks.

 

You knew I wouldn't be able to resist, didn't you? As Grantham's North box is the closest to the public side of the baseboard and as there's still a few bare / boring areas, I thought I'd give the old point rodding a go. Ergo, I thought I'd give the Wills (Peco) point rodding kits a try.

Now, opinion seems to be divided over these, whether they're too large to scale, what region / style they represent. To me, I just want something that gives an impression / feel for the signalling infrastructure that was there and I think this solution is as good as any, certainly practical for what I want it for. As a footnote to that, given that Grantham uses Peco Code 100 track, the whole think is way 'chunkier' than it should be anyway, so ultra-scale point rodding would - in my view - 'jar' a bit in a visual sense.

 

Another related aspect is that the Britainfromabove pictures showed that there was quite a sizeable hut in this area (north end shunters hut, perhaps?) and that the point rodding went round the back of it (to avoid a tripping hazard for said shunters, perhaps?). As always, our configuration doesn't fully match the original but it certainly adds visual interest.

So what's happened here is that I've chopped away the existing chicken wire n mod-roc in this area and inserted a piece of flat ground. Meanwhile Paul quickly knocked up a suitable looking hut (he likes doing things like that) and here we duly have the rodding going round the back of it. The other thing I'm doing here (bottom right) is to - at last - fit in the correct trap point to protect the adjacent running lines from any stray locos that get a mind of their own on the depot. It is dummy (boo! hiss! cheat!) but I've otherwise been meaning to add this for ages. It also gives an apparent purpose for said point rod run!

 

And there we go. Definitely a bit more interest than just plain grass bank. Will need a careful coating of cinders to blend in - better done once the point rodding stools are in place as it'll help keep them affixed in place - usual consideration for a portable layout being shaken about in the back of a van for hours on end.

 

Meanwhile, there's a more substantial point rodding run coming out of the north face of the box. Students of the protoype location will of course be familiar with this appearing to be masses of rodding and it certainly was in the post-war era. However, pre-war - the pictures don't lie - there was actually far less(!?). This must all point to a massive re-working in 1943 when the north junction was extensively remodelled. So, here, I'm depicting just five rodding runs, which gradually branch off to their associated points as we go from right to left.

Of interest (maybe?) are two little things I've adopted in working with the Wills kits. Firstly, I've stuck tabs cut from black plasticard to the underneath of the end of the rod lengths to give something to stick on to when joining lengths together and indeed fixing on the end drop-down, fork thingies (no doubt there's a better technical term for these). You can see these being prepared on the left hand side.

Secondly, wherever two or three stools are gathered together then they shall have their top bearings drilled through and a piece of 0.5mm n/s wire pushed through to securely attach them together. again, all in the name of robustness / resilience.

 

So here we are, the north side done more or less as much as it's going to be (just need to attach the final lengths of the last, single run heading bottom left). Where there is foam ballast, the rodding at right angles just ends up buried in the shoulder; however, elsewhere I've dug out the existing ballast and the run goes through (eg bottom left). The convoluted sequence of cranks to get the run round the back of the cabin is a bit of a nonsense really (it wasn't like that on the original); one thing it does do however is appear to link up with the existing, working rodding for the pointwork on the bridge. Also - before the signalling experts point it out, at least one of those rodding runs is superfluous in the sense that it's controlling a crossover so the first point drive rod would come from a drop down, forked end thingy attached to the same run. Ah well, for me it's about the overall impression and it just looks nicely 'busy' enough. 

 

A little bit more of a close-up of that main, centre run. Personally, I don't think it looks that bad - and that's really a comment about the suitability or otherwise of the Wills product. I don't doubt that it is a bit over scale but, in the context of what else is around it, it fells right to me. A remaining touch will be to put a cover over to disguise the supposed hole where it comes out of the bottom of the signal box wall. A period picture also shows there was a barrel, catching the rainwater from the guttering downspout, on the right hand side of the box as viewed so that's far too good not to add as well. Such little details will help to fill an otherwise blank space and assist with the final finishing off ... so much as it's ever going to be 'finished'!

 

Just the other half to do now, coming out of the west elevation and running down towards the station. I think I'll take a break and drop on to something else for a bit. Too much of this stuff in one go makes yer eyes go all squiffy

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by LNER4479

[John Tomlinson]

24 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

OK. Having now more or less caught up with pre-Leeds preparations, here's what I've been up to in more recent weeks.

 

You knew I wouldn't be able to resist, didn't you? As Grantham's North box is the closest to the public side of the baseboard and as there's still a few bare / boring areas, I thought I'd give the old point rodding a go. Ergo, I thought I'd give the Wills (Peco) point rodding kits a try.

Now, opinion seems to be divided over these, whether they're too large to scale, what region / style they represent. To me, I just want something that gives an impression / feel for the signalling infrastructure that was there and I think this solution is as good as any, certainly practical for what I want it for. As a footnote to that, given that Grantham uses Peco Code 100 track, the whole think is way 'chunkier' than it should be anyway, so ultra-scale point rodding would - in my view - 'jar' a bit in a visual sense.

 

Another related aspect is that the Britainfromabove pictures showed that there was quite a sizeable hut in this area (north end shunters hut, perhaps?) and that the point rodding went round the back of it (to avoid a tripping hazard for said shunters, perhaps?). As always, our configuration doesn't fully match the original but it certainly adds visual interest.

So what's happened here is that I've chopped away the existing chicken wire n mod-roc in this area and inserted a piece of flat ground. Meanwhile Paul quickly knocked up a suitable looking hut (he likes doing things like that) and here we duly have the rodding going round the back of it. The other thing I'm doing here (bottom right) is to - at last - fit in the correct trap point to protect the adjacent running lines from any stray locos that get a mind of their own on the depot. It is dummy (boo! hiss! cheat!) but I've otherwise been meaning to add this for ages. It also gives an apparent purpose for said point rod run!

 

And there we go. Definitely a bit more interest than just plain grass bank. Will need a careful coating of cinders to blend in - better done once the point rodding stools are in place as it'll help keep them affixed in place - usual consideration for a portable layout being shaken about in the back of a van for hours on end.

 

Meanwhile, there's a more substantial point rodding run coming out of the north face of the box. Students of the protoype location will of course be familiar with this appearing to be masses of rodding and it certainly was in the post-war era. However, pre-war - the pictures don't lie - there was actually far less(!?). This must all point to a massive re-working in 1943 when the north junction was extensively remodelled. So, here, I'm depicting just five rodding runs, which gradually branch off to their associated points as we go from right to left.

Of interest (maybe?) are two little things I've adopted in working with the Wills kits. Firstly, I've stuck tabs cut from black plasticard to the underneath of the end of the rod lengths to give something to stick on to when joining lengths together and indeed fixing on the end drop-down, fork thingies (no doubt there's a better technical term for these). You can see these being prepared on the left hand side.

Secondly, wherever two or three stools are gathered together then they shall have their top bearings drilled through and a piece of 0.5mm n/s wire pushed through to securely attach them together. again, all in the name of robustness / resilience.

 

So here we are, the north side done more or less as much as it's going to be (just need to attach the final lengths of the last, single run heading bottom left). Where there is foam ballast, the rodding at right angles just ends up buried in the shoulder; however, elsewhere I've dug out the existing ballast and the run goes through (eg bottom left). The convoluted sequence of cranks to get the run round the back of the cabin is a bit of a nonsense really (it wasn't like that on the original); one thing it does do however is appear to link up with the existing, working rodding for the pointwork on the bridge. Also - before the signalling experts point it out, at least one of those rodding runs is superfluous in the sense that it's controlling a crossover so the first point drive rod would come from a drop down, forked end thingy attached to the same run. Ah well, for me it's about the overall impression and it just looks nicely 'busy' enough. 

 

A little bit more of a close-up of that main, centre run. Personally, I don't think it looks that bad - and that's really a comment about the suitability or otherwise of the Wills product. I don't doubt that it is a bit over scale but, in the context of what else is around it, it fells right to me. A remaining touch will be to put a cover over to disguise the supposed hole where it comes out of the bottom of the signal box wall. A period picture also shows there was a barrel, catching the rainwater from the guttering downspout, on the right hand side of the box as viewed so that's far too good not to add as well. Such little details will help to fill an otherwise blank space and assist with the final finishing off ... so much as it's ever going to be 'finished'!

 

Just the other half to do now, coming out of the west elevation and running down towards the station. I think I'll take a break and drop on to something else for a bit. Too much of this stuff in one go makes yer eyes go all squiffy

 

 

FWIW in my opinion this looks rather good.

 

As you say, higher wisdom holds this to be far too chunky, but it certainly doesn't look it in your pictures. I like the way it is properly square in cross section as well, something lost by using wire.

 

John.

[Michael Edge]

Looks good to me, I think neatness is more important than accuracy here.

[Clive Mortimore]

I used the Wills point rodding on Sheff Ex Mk1 I couldn't see any problems with it visually. I would have liked some sprues with rodding on short rollers for going under the rails and a means of connecting the lengths of rodding.

 

 

The plan was to make the gap between the running lines and the signal box look like a lifted siding, I even left a gap in rodding runs to represent the removal of the point and lock rodding where the point had been removed with the siding.

 

Before making it I sent this plan to Mike Stationmaster for checking and approving. 

[geoff west]

I think it works well with the code 100 track.

[LNER4479]

44 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

 

Before making it I sent this plan to Mike Stationmaster for checking and approving. 

Very nice ... but what is thing called a 'plan' of which you speak? It'll never catch on I tell you!

[St Enodoc]

6 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

drop-down, fork thingies (no doubt there's a better technical term for these)

Clevises?

[LNER4479]

1 hour ago, St Enodoc said:

Clevises?

Bless you!

[jwealleans]

16 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

I like the way it is properly square in cross section as well, something lost by using wire.

 

That nice Mr. Hartshorne at Wizard Models will sell you square wire specifically for this purpose.

[The Stationmaster]

'Drop down fork ended thingy' seems quite a lot of rather jolly words for a 'pin joint' (at least that's what they were called on the Western).  But still rather jolly for all that.  

 

There are some interesting Regional/Company differences when it comes to where to use 'square' (channel) rodding and where to use round rodding but no faux pas have emerged at Grantham and it all looks rather good (as does Clive's excellent job)

[Tony Wright]

On 18/12/2021 at 16:18, LNER4479 said:

OK. Having now more or less caught up with pre-Leeds preparations, here's what I've been up to in more recent weeks.

 

You knew I wouldn't be able to resist, didn't you? As Grantham's North box is the closest to the public side of the baseboard and as there's still a few bare / boring areas, I thought I'd give the old point rodding a go. Ergo, I thought I'd give the Wills (Peco) point rodding kits a try.

Now, opinion seems to be divided over these, whether they're too large to scale, what region / style they represent. To me, I just want something that gives an impression / feel for the signalling infrastructure that was there and I think this solution is as good as any, certainly practical for what I want it for. As a footnote to that, given that Grantham uses Peco Code 100 track, the whole think is way 'chunkier' than it should be anyway, so ultra-scale point rodding would - in my view - 'jar' a bit in a visual sense.

 

Another related aspect is that the Britainfromabove pictures showed that there was quite a sizeable hut in this area (north end shunters hut, perhaps?) and that the point rodding went round the back of it (to avoid a tripping hazard for said shunters, perhaps?). As always, our configuration doesn't fully match the original but it certainly adds visual interest.

So what's happened here is that I've chopped away the existing chicken wire n mod-roc in this area and inserted a piece of flat ground. Meanwhile Paul quickly knocked up a suitable looking hut (he likes doing things like that) and here we duly have the rodding going round the back of it. The other thing I'm doing here (bottom right) is to - at last - fit in the correct trap point to protect the adjacent running lines from any stray locos that get a mind of their own on the depot. It is dummy (boo! hiss! cheat!) but I've otherwise been meaning to add this for ages. It also gives an apparent purpose for said point rod run!

 

And there we go. Definitely a bit more interest than just plain grass bank. Will need a careful coating of cinders to blend in - better done once the point rodding stools are in place as it'll help keep them affixed in place - usual consideration for a portable layout being shaken about in the back of a van for hours on end.

 

Meanwhile, there's a more substantial point rodding run coming out of the north face of the box. Students of the protoype location will of course be familiar with this appearing to be masses of rodding and it certainly was in the post-war era. However, pre-war - the pictures don't lie - there was actually far less(!?). This must all point to a massive re-working in 1943 when the north junction was extensively remodelled. So, here, I'm depicting just five rodding runs, which gradually branch off to their associated points as we go from right to left.

Of interest (maybe?) are two little things I've adopted in working with the Wills kits. Firstly, I've stuck tabs cut from black plasticard to the underneath of the end of the rod lengths to give something to stick on to when joining lengths together and indeed fixing on the end drop-down, fork thingies (no doubt there's a better technical term for these). You can see these being prepared on the left hand side.

Secondly, wherever two or three stools are gathered together then they shall have their top bearings drilled through and a piece of 0.5mm n/s wire pushed through to securely attach them together. again, all in the name of robustness / resilience.

 

So here we are, the north side done more or less as much as it's going to be (just need to attach the final lengths of the last, single run heading bottom left). Where there is foam ballast, the rodding at right angles just ends up buried in the shoulder; however, elsewhere I've dug out the existing ballast and the run goes through (eg bottom left). The convoluted sequence of cranks to get the run round the back of the cabin is a bit of a nonsense really (it wasn't like that on the original); one thing it does do however is appear to link up with the existing, working rodding for the pointwork on the bridge. Also - before the signalling experts point it out, at least one of those rodding runs is superfluous in the sense that it's controlling a crossover so the first point drive rod would come from a drop down, forked end thingy attached to the same run. Ah well, for me it's about the overall impression and it just looks nicely 'busy' enough. 

 

A little bit more of a close-up of that main, centre run. Personally, I don't think it looks that bad - and that's really a comment about the suitability or otherwise of the Wills product. I don't doubt that it is a bit over scale but, in the context of what else is around it, it fells right to me. A remaining touch will be to put a cover over to disguise the supposed hole where it comes out of the bottom of the signal box wall. A period picture also shows there was a barrel, catching the rainwater from the guttering downspout, on the right hand side of the box as viewed so that's far too good not to add as well. Such little details will help to fill an otherwise blank space and assist with the final finishing off ... so much as it's ever going to be 'finished'!

 

Just the other half to do now, coming out of the west elevation and running down towards the station. I think I'll take a break and drop on to something else for a bit. Too much of this stuff in one go makes yer eyes go all squiffy

 

I think the whole effect is excellent, Graham.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[LNERGE]

I thought i'd post this picture of what lurks below each crank, compensator etc...

 

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by LNERGE

[Sharky]

The Rodding looks amazing!
As you were saying it doesn't look out of place next to the Code 100.
Definitely fills the space in nicely.
Always love the inclusion of signalling infrastructure.

Edited December 20, 2021 by Sharky

[Martin S-C]

13 hours ago, LNERGE said:

I thought i'd post this picture of what lurks below each crank, compensator etc...

 

 

1:1 scale baseboard then?

[RodneyV]

I believe we call it 12 inches to the foot.

[LNER4479]

Recent weeks have seen me tackling another project from the 'to do' list ...

 

Whereas Tony has periodically taken lovely shed scenes like this, in truth the actual shed building has been nothing more than a cardboard mock-up, standing out like a rather sore thumb, right at the front of the layout. But, hopefully, no longer ...

 

I've set up the associated shed board and bought myself an engine shed kit(!) - the flattest, true-ist sheet of 5mm ply that a certain orange DIY store could offer, together with some lengths of strip wood. And, in true Blue Peter fashion, this is what you do (or, at least, what I did):

 

Using the mock-up as a template, mark out the classic saw-tooth ('north light') pattern on the ply (Grantham hysterical note - this is the pre-war roof pattern; it was rebuilt (probably just in the nick of time to stop it collapsing in on itself) in @1950).

 

Rough cut round and attached to similar size piece, together with a sacrificial piece of old hardboard at the rear. Then, carefully cut along the outside of the saw-tooth lines, aiming to just graze the pencil line.

 

We should thus have two identical sides.

 

Two strips of ply again held together, this time using the coping saw (best tool in the box) to create slots that snugly take the strip wood (11 x 5mm, I think).

 

Now we really do have a kit (of sorts). Note the window holes, cut in the east-facing wall only. This is the non-viewing side; however, it does occasionally show up on photos. On the prototype, this was only ever wriggly tin, lashed to vertical columns. The shed was built as one half of an intended eight road shed that was never ultimately completed - the 'temporary' arrangement lasted over 60 years until eventual demolition. A rare,1960s view of this elevation shows these windows. It is possible that they were added during the 1950 rebuild but - hey - I'm including them. If nothing else, the addition of some daylight to lift the gloom of the interior should be appreciated by the depot operator to help him see what's going on, sitting as he is some six feet away from the building.

 

Shed being assembled in situ, the theory being that it should fit precisely in its slots every time. No mechanical fixings on this occasion - I trusted the PVA and left it clamped up like this for 24 hours.

 

Although still very much a shell at this stage, this first view with all the roof spars in place seems quite encouraging - already a bit of the classic light n shade going on. What is not so obvious here are the longitudinal floor strips either side (can you see the screw heads?) - this creates the precise slot for the sides to drop in to. Also, between roads 2 and 3 (counting from the left), there is a further strip. The tracks are slightly further apart here and the intention is to fit a row of vertical support columns (brass tube). Not required structurally so far as the model goes but they were there on the prototype (I think they might have been down every road?).

 

Now we can start cladding the highly prominent west wall. This had no windows, so relatively straightforward. My favourite ex-BR 1mm card is once more in use to create the relief, with some SEF english bond plasticard cut to the same shape / size, creating both inserts and overlay.

 

Roof formers for the backward-sloping, tiled roof sections next. 40thou plasticard, with glue holes drilled to assist with liquid poly-ing the SEF tiling sheets.

 

And the corresponding, front facing glazing sheets. I've followed a recent tip about using quite thick clear sheet for glazing (to avoid unsightly wrinkles) - this is actually DIY perspex sheet, just under 2mm thick. For this fixing, I've given the glue a hand by also using Peco trackpins, carefully tapped through pre-drilled, countersunk holes into the ply beneath. Being thicker, the perspex doesn't twist to accommodate slight end-to-end imperfections. You can't have it both ways!

I've added a smattering of dirt (grey, red primer and black, sprayed from a distance) to be on the inside faces. Paul (Bolton) is making some glazing bar overlays using his Silhouette cutter which will them be affixed and similarly weathered from the outside. I'm hoping that this will disguise the somewhat speckled effect apparent in this photo.

 

And this is where we're up to at the moment. Lots of finishing / detailing to do yet (obviously!) - but I think I'll embargo any further pictures of it until after the Donny show. If you want to be the first to see it in its complete form, then you'll have to come along to the show! (with apologies to those for whom such a visit is impractical).

 

Meanwhile, I'm taking a breather from this also. Back to some signalling ...

 

 

Edited January 15, 2022 by LNER4479

[gr.king]

A lot of work at what might seem like a surprising stage in the history of the layout. I wonder if the new glazed roof might mean that the shed foreman can at last actually see which locos are lurking in the back?

[LNER4479]

2 hours ago, gr.king said:

A lot of work at what might seem like a surprising stage in the history of the layout.

It's all the fault of the man they call 'York'. He's threatening to point his camera at the layout during the show. York at Grantham in Doncaster. Confused? You will be after this next episode of ...

 

All being well, should be an article in the May edition of BRM 

[Denbridge]

13 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

It's all the fault of the man they call 'York'. He's threatening to point his camera at the layout during the show. York at Grantham in Doncaster. Confused? You will be after this next episode of ...

 

All being well, should be an article in the May edition of BRM 

I do hope that Grantham has a long term future now it is being replaced in your Chapel by the west coast route.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

6 hours ago, Denbridge said:

I do hope that Grantham has a long term future

 

It definitely deserves a secure future.  I still can't quite believe that one of the finest layouts I've seen was only ever an interim project...

[Barry O]

5 minutes ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

 

It definitely deserves a secure future.  I still can't quite believe that one of the finest layouts I've seen was only ever an interim project...

No Red Leader  is a true LMR man - Duchesses are the best express locomotive to ever run in Britain.

 

Baz