Grantham - the Streamliner years

[beast66606]

(Interesting historical note. It was exactly this feature that was a contributory factor in the famous 1906 crash at Grantham. Apparently a southbound train from Nottingham was due or had just passed through and the points I call P2 had been reversed in order to provide this protection. This was why the runaway northbound express took the Nottingham route and consequently derailed on the reverse curve; had the points been 'normal' it may well have come harmlessly to rest a few miles down the line!)

 

But if the Nottingham train had been on the junction at the time the outcome may also have been different - hence the flank protection 

 

Your call of course, but if I get to see the layout you will know it's me when I ask why aren't xxx points normal / reversed for that route   - e.g. if running off the Nottingham to the Up Main, P18 would be reversed - personally I would (and indeed have, several times) provide all the protection / locking etc, it's electrical and should be relatively easy to provide, I used to do it with banks of relays, 36 of them on one layout ! but then they also controlled aspect sequencing on colour lights - nowadays I use a mouse to implement the interlocking)

 

(None of this changes the superb layout of course, it just happens to be my "pedant")

[LNER4479]

Whilst we're in wiring mode, some info on the control panel to perhaps explain a little bit more how the control system has been designed and to put the earlier post into context.

 

First of all, a general view of the control panel:

 

The idea is that two operators sit each side of the panel - one being Yard box and the other North box. This is part of the intention to model the control system around the actual signalling arrangements that existed at the place itself.

 

Here is a close up of the North box end (right hand side). As far as the operator is concerned, there are three aspects to worry(!) about: the setting of the section & isolation switches on the mimic panel; the operation of the points and signals using the Peco lever frame; and the all important controllers to make the trains actually go! Each main track section corresponds to a signalling block section and the section switch for each has three positions: Up for 'auto'; down for 'local' and centre for off (the section switches are the larger switches). That corresponds to the two controllers on the Gaugemaster Model D (as marked). 'Local' allows the operator to move a loco/train irrespective of the signals and is intended for shunting moves; the 'Auto' setting allows the operator to drive a train only if the relevant signals are pulled off (and the interlocking in turn ensures that they can only be pulled off if the route is set) - this mode is intended for running trains on the mainline.

 

This is what the public will see! (in the background) ie only the lever frames, which will be deliberately left on view (I find that sort of thing interesting at exhibitions). When complete, there will be 18 levers for Yard box and 30 for North box. This is somewhat less than either of the originals but will be enough to replicate the principal signalling arrangements. As stated above, the intention is that the control arrangements are based around the real location, as if to recreate the experience of being back in the signalboxes (there will, in time, be a further control position down at South box)

 

And now for the scary bit (as referred to by Barry O). The bottom of the control panel is a hinged box, which contains the relay panels, 14 of the blighters to press. These do all the 'clever stuff', which means that the panel itself is somewhat simplified compared to what it could have been like (honest, Graeme!). As well as looking after the interlocking and intermediate section switching, the relays also contribute in two further ways: firstly, for a junction signal (of which there are several), the relay logic works out which arm is raised/lowered according to the route, hence only one lever in the frame despite multiple arms; secondly, all distant signals are automatic, ie they will pull off by themselves when both related home signals are pulled off (and vice-versa), hence no separate distant (yellow levers in the frame). This thus reduces the number of levers required. Cheating or pragmatic? The choice is yours...

 

Danger - man at work! The panel is removable and, placed at 90deg to its normal orientation, is easy/comfortable to work on. The terminals on the relay panels are all screw connections so no soldering required and easy to swap things around in the event of a 'faux pas' (and there have been a few already!) Each connection is being carefully recorded for future fault finding!

 

Meanwhile, here's where we're up to with the boxes themselves! Yard box on the right. They had their brick red coats applied last night; the rather garish white colour will shortly disappear beneath a more appropriate livery...

 

Hope this helps explain things a bit further (for those interested). Roy(34F) - in answer to your question about how many of the relays 'fire', each operation of a point or signal activates a set number of the relays (in multiples of two) according to the wiring diagram. So it's not like an N-X panel whereby all the points for a route will go over together 'at the flick of a switch'; it's really exactly like the traditional prototype, ie the signalman (operator) still has to set the route one point at a time. The interlocking simply disconnects the power to the point/signal lever, so it can still be pulled but nothing happens (return lever and work out which one should be pulled first!)

Edited November 7, 2013 by LNER4479

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Fascinating stuff, all completely over my head but I'm learning.  

 

I wonder, would this be a layout where it would be worth splitting the signalman role and the driver role, in other words operate the trains with wireless throttles and just drive them in response to the signal indications and timetable, and then another person actually controlling the signals and points etc.

 

This features on a number of large US layouts that I admire, and seems to give great deal of operational realism and fun.

[beast66606]

Fascinating stuff, all completely over my head but I'm learning.  

 

I wonder, would this be a layout where it would be worth splitting the signalman role and the driver role, in other words operate the trains with wireless throttles and just drive them in response to the signal indications and timetable, and then another person actually controlling the signals and points etc.

 

This features on a number of large US layouts that I admire, and seems to give great deal of operational realism and fun.

 

And several UK - including our own Widnes - which uses our MILF to generate the trains.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

 our MILF ....

[jwealleans]

Whatever you do, if you're at work, don't Google it!

[ROY@34F]

Thanks for answering my query "Robert".All very interesting;brilliant.

Roy.

[Guest 2750]

Today I returned 4494 'Osprey' to her rightful owner.

This also gave me the opportunity to have some one on one operational training. 

 

I don't think I did too bad, although I will let 'robert' be the judge of that. Most importantly, things make a lot more sense to me, and

I found the whole thing very enjoyable! I didn't get round to taking an photographs, but here is 4494 taken this morning while the sun was out. Once again I worked from a photo I was able to source. Although I prefer the Hornby A4, 'robert's' detailing of lamp irons, drain cocks and lining the wheels make a huge difference, and I hope the weathering helps towards that.

 

 

Edited November 9, 2013 by 2750

[Nelson Jackson]

Absolutely beautiful, the weathering is just so superb and realistic, well done.

[micklner]

Tom

What did you use for the Lamp irons and how did you line the wheels?

Sadly as soon as you see the Bachmann Cartazzi Truck it makes you realise how good the Hornby version is !!.

By coincidence I have a Hornby A4 which will be Golden Eagle on the bench in same livery about half done at mo.

Edited November 9, 2013 by micklner

[Guest 2750]

Tom

What did you use for the Lamp irons and how did you line the wheels?

Sadly as soon as you see the Bachmann Cartazzi Truck it makes you realise how good the Hornby version is !!.

By coincidence I have a Hornby A4 which will be Golden Eagle on the bench in same livery about half done at mo.

 

 

Hi Mick

LNER 4479 'robert' did all the modifications, I just weathered her.

I agree, the cartazzi lets her down.

 

I'm probably going to have my own 4494 using a Hornby donor to then be repainted (I believe Commonwealth of Australia is the ideal donor). She was the last one to keep apple green, which I do think looked nice on the A4s.

Edited November 9, 2013 by 2750

[micklner]

Much easier Tom too:-

 

Repaint Mallard or other version A4 Body add a single chimney if needed.

 

NRM A3 chassis and Tender.

 

I would renumber/letter with etched replacements and add etched  plates to Australia.

[gr.king]

The weathering looks a treat.

 

Not difficult to change the Cartazzi frames to fixed ones on the Bachmann A4.

 

Where's the rest of the edge lining along the bottom of the green part of the tender? It seems to stop just aft of the turn-in near the front of the sidesheets.

[Guest 2750]

The weathering looks a treat.

 

Not difficult to change the Cartazzi frames to fixed ones on the Bachmann A4.

 

Where's the rest of the edge lining along the bottom of the green part of the tender? It seems to stop just aft of the turn-in near the front of the sidesheets.

 

A knew some would mention that!

 

Whilst working on the loco, I didn't realise how thin the pre year 2000 lining was. Brushed with thinners when weathering and it started peeling away, so decided it best to remove it all, and 'robert' said he was happy to re add the lining.

[gr.king]

 

Much easier

"Easier"? Eh? Easier to do a total repaint with full lining than to do a few conservative mods to a fully liveried / lined model? If so, how do you define "easy" Mick?

[gr.king]

Yes Tom, I know. Simon told me at Spalding today, so I couldn't resist sticking my oar in.......

[Guest 2750]

 

I was on the phone to Simon at the time you posted the above comments.... we have  had a good chuckle about it!

Edited November 9, 2013 by 2750

[micklner]

 

 

"Easier"? Eh? Easier to do a total repaint with full lining than to do a few conservative mods to a fully liveried / lined model? If so, how do you define "easy" Mick?

2750 said

I'm probably going to have my own 4494 using a Hornby donor to then be repainted (I believe Commonwealth of Australia is the ideal donor). She was the last one to keep apple green, which I do think looked nice on the A4s.

 

 

Unless I am reading it wrong Tom is talking about repainting a Garter Blue Loco and Tender and chassis. My easier way is a repaint and add a new chimney for a Loco body only .    

Edited November 10, 2013 by micklner

[gr.king]

Okay, got you now Mick. I see the point.

Edited November 11, 2013 by gr.king

[LNER4479]

Thanks to Tom for another superb weathering job. Some pix to follow of her back at Grantham...

 

What did you use for the Lamp irons and how did you line the wheels?

 

Lamp irons are 26swg nickel silver, with ends flattened in a pair of pliers. Lining of the wheels was done by hand, very slowly/patiently over several nights(!) White first, to get the edge with the green, then black to get the white line as thin (but even) as possible. There must be an easier way!

[westerner]

I admire your patience.

[Guest 2750]

Thanks to Tom for another superb weathering job. Some pix to follow of her back at Grantham...

 

 

Lamp irons are 26swg nickel silver, with ends flattened in a pair of pliers. Lining of the wheels was done by hand, very slowly/patiently over several nights(!) White first, to get the edge with the green, then black to get the white line as thin (but even) as possible. There must be an easier way!

 

Pleasure as always 'robert'!

After our discussion at the weekend, I've ordered several nameplates from 247 developments, including a Tracery set.

[LNER4479]

Here is 'Osprey' back in service at Grantham

 

Not quite sure how she's ended up on the Pullmans, being a Grantham engine, but there you go. Tom's subtle weathering show's up well I think

 

You might also notice something else 'new' in this picture...

 

This creation of North Box has come about from the fusion of two Knightwing kits, using the window parts left over from the creation of Yard Box. North box was a double-sided box (ie windows both sides) so two sets of Knightwing windows were required. Although not wholly accurate, and lacking the fine-ness that comes from the use of an etched assembly, it will do for now. Pictures of it from this elevation have been almost impossible to come by, so I hope the Grantham regulars will forgive any inaccuracies. Steps have since been added, and there's still a few more painting details to do (eg the roof of the out-building!)

 

This is the view from the depot operating position and the box certainly adds to this scene. It looked a bit bare without it.

 

Finally (and completely unrelated to any of the above), the sun was shining in yesterday morning and caught the B17 full on broadside   Those wheels were also lined by hand. I must be mad!

[JCL]

I'm afraid my brain shuts down when I see lots and lots of wires connected to plastic bits. I love what was done to your Osprey though, and your B17. How did you do the wheel lining?

[micklner]

Thanks to Tom for another superb weathering job. Some pix to follow of her back at Grantham...

 

 

Lamp irons are 26swg nickel silver, with ends flattened in a pair of pliers. Lining of the wheels was done by hand, very slowly/patiently over several nights(!) White first, to get the edge with the green, then black to get the white line as thin (but even) as possible. There must be an easier way!

Fox do a lining decal sheet not cheap though !!