Great West Road - transfers & I’m not talking football!

[southern42]

 

Wishing everyone a Merry Christmas and a prosperous modelling New Year.

Thank you all for your support on here and I hope there will be something to show in the days and months to come.

 

Best wishes

Polly & Great West Road

Motto: Goes When Ready

[southern42]

Hi 81C and HNY,

 

Thanks for those Castle allocations.  I'm attempting to create a table of GWR/BR Southall allocations/available models but I'm finding it's taking me longer than I thought.  The BRDatabase and greatwestern.org are really useful sites.

http://64.37.52.62/~brdataba/index.php

http://www.greatwestern.org.uk/

 

 

Thanks also for reminding me of the Hornby Star thread.  It's been so busy (in a very Christmasy sort of way) I’ve only seen the first few posts.  The link on #6 will be most useful.

 

 

I already have the Collett goods which will be a donor for 2285 in the 40s, as you say. My 9F arrived early for Christmas (from OH) and appears above.  For the branchline (east of the footbridge), I had the Ratio GWR junction/bracket kit.  I've also noticed from various photos that there was another set of two signals at the entrance of the railmotor shed but I don't know how long either pair existed.

 

 

I've started mocking up some of the track plan on the baseboard and hope to have some pics soon.

 

Polly

[Rich5ltr]

I will follow this thread with interest because I grew up in Ealing in the 60s and remember the 'Golden Mile' on the Great West Road very well. At Christmas the factories and offices were always illuminated and Dad would take us for a drive there to see the lights. Brentford station at the Half-Acre would be where we went on holiday from - up to Waterloo or Clapham then down to the coast! As a small child I watched the end of steam on the western region from the UD milk depot depot near West Ealing station or on 'Jacobs Ladder' footbridge which crosses the multitude of lines there. Then later when I was mobile I would cycle to Southall sheds and like a previous poster, stand on the footbridge there or sneak down into the sheds for a nose round. As for what ran on the Brentford branch I can confirm there was a Pannier tank in the early/mid 60s. I used to play football in Elthorne Park and the playing fields overlooked the Grand Union Canal, bluebell woods, the pig farm, and the old branch line beyond. I would often see the old pannier chugging up and down the line. Once for fun we hid along the track and bunked onto the back of the waggons jumping out again near Brentford. We then bunked into a truck at Brentford to get back up to Hanwell! Happy days...  

[Rich5ltr]

 

...in Railway Centre terms because Southall lost its turntable, of course, and, presumably, locos go off to a wye somewhere..

That's right, they turn on the Hanwell/Greenford/West Ealing triangle...

[Rich5ltr]

Rich if see this what was the name of the company by Trumpers Crossing halt possibly a timber yard or builder's merchant?  

HNY 81C 

I have no idea but as the halt closed in 1926 that's not surprising I'll look for some pictures and see if it jogs my memory. All I remember was a disused sewage works at the end of Trumpers Way then a foot crossing and a piggery on the other side. You could then cycle down the footpath to Osterley Park to go fishing...

 

p.s. there was a huge timber yard/warehouse at the end of the Grand Union down towards the docks... where the canal was covered by the warehouse for a few hundred yards in order to allow the timber to be off-loaded in the dry.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Rich5ltr

[southern42]

81C and Rich.  That's some really interesting stuff you've put on here.  It all helps in building up a picture of how Great West Road will turn out.  Even without anything actually running it looks as though there are plenty of situations to stage.  Thanks for the stories.  Brilliant, as usual.

 

Looking up Brentford, I found Bradbury, London wagons on the dockside (1922) and conveniently, Dapol do a Bradbury London Southampton Cardiff wagon which, in my book, will do just fine for the branchline. Next job - find how long they existed.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/viktor_web_studios/4098598104/

 

http://www.brentforddockresidents.co.uk/history.php

A link on this page, PHOTOS, goes to a slide show of Brentford Dock including a couple of Tanks at the Ham, easternmost bridge: http://www.flickr.com/photos/viktor_web_studios/4101801120/

[Coppercap]

Bachmann do (did) an "Isleworth Coal Company"  wagon, and the company is listed at Brentford Docks in 1914, but it's not clear how long after then that the company existed. They also do a "Firestone Tyres" coal wagon, which would definitely have appeared on the Brentford branch, as Firestone's was rail served, even if only for incoming coal supply.

Naturally I have both, me being an "Isleworthian"! 

Edited January 3, 2013 by Coppercap

[southern42]

Hi 81C

Thanks for pointing out the typo.

Try this one for size - now on my wishlist together with the Isleworth wagon Coppercap mentions and a couple more Firestone ones.

http://www.robbiesrollingstock.co.uk/images/London_SE/Bradbury-1.gif

 

Glad to have another 'local' onboard, Coppercap, though I only remember Isleworth for its swimming pool before the school trundled us off to Heston a few years before Hayes had its own. 

 

According to the 1928 Trade Directory http://www.bhsproject.co.uk/index1928.shtml the Isleworth Coal Co was incorporated with Spenser Whatley Ltd.  On the list there is also Brentford Concrete Construction Co Ltd, known office on High Street 1920-1928.  The Isleworth wagons will go nicely in the steam railmotor era, then, talking of which, I picked up a secondhand copy of R C Riley's Great Western Album No. 2 last week. On page 78 there's a photo of Steam  Railmotor No. 70 'about to leave Southall for Brentford in 1931' - confirmation that it went down the branch line.

[Philip52LC]

Hi Polly,

 

Regarding wagons have you had a look at the "POW Sides" website which I came across when looking for Nottingham & Llanelli PO wagons. Although they are kits I think they are fairly easy to build and there is also the alternative of buying just transfers. hope this helps.

 

Regards

 

Philip 

[southern42]

Hi Phlip

Thanks for the link - I've just checked it out and think I'll probably find some useful transters/kits there.

 

 

81C, we briefly met Robbie at Warley (briefly, because he was still talking to others while someone brought out our order from the back of his stand - so busy) where we collected half a dozen wagons from him including some Gas Light & Coke Co. Southall wagons - all put back in their boxes in a 'safe' place for Christmas. [Edit.  Now, where are they?]

 

 

While we're on the subject of wagons, if anyone knows of other specific wagons on the Southall-Brentford line, I'd be delighted to hear, though trains will be limited to 2 feet (for now) though that might be a bit short for GWR days.  I've seen red Quaker Oats Wrenn wagons but did this livery actually exist on grain wagons and did any go to the Southall factory as I believe most of the grain came in by canal?  And lastly, what wagons went into the former Maypole Margarine factory (closed in 1925 so possibly out of my period) - there are lines running into the loading shed opposite the branch line platform.  Did they also close in 1925 or continue with the next occupant?  Doesn't it get complicated.      

I've got the book on GWR Western Branchlines on my wishlist.  This may answer some of these questions.

 

Back to layout planning, now.....

Edited January 4, 2013 by southern42

[southern42]

Thanks 81C for all that info.  Really interesting and most helpful.

 

Hi All

Below is the latest AnyRail rendition of Great West Road.

All trains less than 2ft.

  

 

 

I would welcome your comments.

Primarily, will it work/fit?  

 

The platform is inspired by photos of steam railmotors standing and being shunted in the platform and the later photos of 57xx 0-6-0PT 9642 below.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/7649285934/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/7548711668/

 

 

EDIT to put in the right layout image!

Edited January 6, 2013 by southern42

[Kev_Lewis]

Hi Polly,

 

That's a great track plan you've come up with. I can't see anything glaringly wrong.

 

I'm looking forward to when you start building the layout.

[Andrew P]

That looks like a good plan to me too,

 

All the best Andy.

[southern42]

Thanks everyone for your generous comments and 'likes' on the track plan.

 

 

In a perfect world, the platform would be further to the left, the three-way point would be a double slip on the other side of the footbridge leading directly to the shed, siding and mainline as indicated at the top of the layout.  Quite a bit of jiggery pokery in AnyRail.

 

 

Great Western Railway Engine Sheds describes Southall engine movements:

 

 

The normal procedure is for engines to arrive at the station end, often crossing over the mainline in pairs or threes, coming in from the various yards.  Engines approached the turntable to the right of the ashbin [between tracks to the turntable], where fires were thrown out, proceeded to the turntable, turned if necessary and moved forward to have the smokebox dealt with.  They would then move up the yard, coal and reverse back into the shed.

 

 

I hope this will work on Great West Road.

 

 

I don’t know how long the layout will take to build but below is a doodle I did while waiting (ages!) for an x-ray on my shoulder this morning (no problems with the bones, BTW. Phew!).  The structures are all a bit scrunched up together and not particularly to scale, but I hope you get an idea of what's in my head.

 

 

 

Below, I’ve added the goods siding from the sketch.  On the prototype, there was a goods siding in the other direction ending short of the railmotor shed.  In post #5, 81C mentioned there were always covered vans in the siding next to the branch line in the '60s.  There is a photo showing wagons on the siding in GWR days as well (Great Western Railway Engine Sheds, p.111)

[Physicsman]

Morning Polly.

 

So you did post your "paper thoughts" along with the trackplan. I meant to have a look last night and got side-tracked. It's always a good idea to visualise concepts before committing them to the modeller's cutting knife. And it looks like you'll have plenty of scope for activity within the yard. I know so little about the GWR and its locos (compared to what I use, "up north"!) so I'm happy to be educated by watching your progress!

 

Jeff

[Neal Ball]

Can't wait to see the tracks going down...... If only there was room for the four track main line and all of the station!!!

[southern42]

Hi Neal,

I did suggest that someone run their mainline behind mine in one of my earlier posts, I think!  What a sight that would be - glimpses of Cornish Riviera Expresses through the ages - Stars, Castles, Kings, Britannias - speeding past locos on shed. A scratchbuilt, 3 towered station building on the road bridge with staircases down to platform would be perfect, too.

 

I suppose I could project audio visuals onto the backscene.....  .

 

Polly

[Physicsman]

Hi Neal,

I did suggest that someone run their mainline behind mine in one of my earlier posts, I think!  What a sight that would be - glimpses of Cornish Riviera Expresses through the ages - Stars, Castles, Kings, Britannias - speeding past locos on shed. A scratchbuilt, 3 towered station building on the road bridge with staircases down to platform would be perfect, too.

 

I suppose I could project audio visuals onto the backscene.....  .

 

Polly

 

You said it, Polly. A collection of superb locos. That's your next layout project. Just evict the hubby and you've ready-space available!

 

Jeff

[southern42]

You said it, Polly. A collection of superb locos. That's your next layout project. Just evict the hubby and you've ready-space available!

 

Jeff

 

Ah, but who would pay the bills?

[Castle]

Hi Polly,

 

The plan looks good to me too - this is going to be a cracking layout when its finished! I am glad I am not the only one who spends idle moments doing layout doodles like the one above...

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[southern42]

Hi All.

 

I've got the trackplan printed out full size.  Now the fun begins.  I've just laid out the first section on the floor covering the platform and fiddle yard up to the entrance of the railmotor shed.

 

 

 

With the aid of some cards Ray made to represent Southern stock (!) I made some observations.

The platform is narrow but if I can move the sector plate further back I should be able to get a platform building on it.  That will necessitate some more jiggery pokery from the branchline and shed exit but not impossible, I hope.

 

The siding should hold 3 vans comfortably, and it should be possible to uncouple a brake van first (in the middle road) and then have the loco take it away after dropping off the vans.  I'm guessing that's what would have happened in real life.  Please correct me if I'm wrong. 

 

The next consideration was the passing loop.  It looks as though the platform track will take a 70ft steam railmotor at a pinch so may need lengthening a bit, though I need to keep enough track at the end to get the loco (a small tank) out.  Some tests to do on this, I think.

I also need to work out if I can realistically use the passing loop to move loco onto the other end of  vans/wagons.

Note.  The red line is the baseboard join so will need to keep points off this area.  3 boards: 2ftx2ft, 4ftx2ft, 4ftx2ft (Total 10ft x 2ft)

 

Help!  Comments really welcome.

Polly

[southern42]

Thanks for your question, 81C.

 

As I've finally decided to include a platform, the answer is a hopeful YES. 

In the doodle (above) I've drawn a signal box on the other side of the footbridge (below the water softening tower).

This may work better if I move the three-way point back a bit more to lengthen and deepen the platform or I could put it on the other side of the junction.  See amended pic below with both options (blue rectangles).

What do you think?

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

It will, I think, spoil the Southallesque nature of what you are trying to do if the signalbox is not on the platform end.

[southern42]

You're right, Mike.  Thanks.  I'll have a go at rejigging the track to make room for it - I need more depth, anyway.  How big a footprint would I require / get away with?

 

The early GWR signal box in steam railmotor days, I see, was wooden with a single story section on the west end. (Great Western Railway Engine Sheds London Division p.126)

 

Mainline view 1952 with brick base. Was it rebuilt by the GW or BR?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RAILWAY-STEAM-PHOTOGRAPH-7919-1-NEAR-SOUTHALL-SIGNAL-BOX-ETC-12-4-1952-/280992415105

 

Branchline view 1963
http://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/7548711668/

 

Polly

[southern42]

Hi All

 

Just an update on the track.  Plan below.

 

 

By swapping the 3-way point for a couple of Y points at the end of the platform, the platform line and the passing loop are, hopefully, adequately longer.   The platform can be deeper and there should be enough room for a signal box.

 

I've taken the Hornby signal box as a guide : Hornby R9664 footprint = 94mm x Depth 46mm  (approx 3³/4in x 1⁴/5in)  http://www.Hornby.com/shop/skaledale/r9664-gwr-signal-box/

Would this be a suitable model for the layout?

 

I may go for a wooden signal box, anyway RTP or modelled, to 'match in' with the GWR engine shed which will have to be scratch built/kit bashed.  Down the line, when I hope to build a BR version as well, maybe I'll have a brick signal box to complement the later period.

 

Your views most welcome as usual.

Polly