edcayton Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I don't understand this. Lots of people make a (very good) living out of buying and selling shares, currency and all sorts of things. It is fine to buy stuff off eBay and sell it for a profit, or to dabble in art. So why is ticket touting illegal/immoral? Surely if you buy a number of tickets to an event in the hope of selling them on at a profit you take a risk on the vagaries of "the market". We took our younger son and a friend to a rock concert in London. They didn't want the embarrassment of us being seen with them as they queued, so we watched the people selling tickets to those who did not have them. They started at several times face value, but reduced as people were less willing to pay these prices until, as the queue was being admitted they were trying to sell them at less than face value just to get rid before they were worth nothing. Any thoughts? Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted July 30, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 30, 2012 Ticket touting isn't normally illegal except for specific events (eg football because they don't want away fans and home fans mixing or the Olympics). Why is it immoral, because the touts are in most cases artificially inflating the prices (otherwise they would be out of business) for fans. I (or friends) have occassionally got some fantastic deals from a tout, but the good experiences (ie where they lose money) are far outweighed by the potentially bad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Its puzzled me too. There might be less empty seats at the Olympics of the 'Olympic family' had been allowed to sell their tickets... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I thank my lucky stars for a few occasions when either the promised 'plus-one' hasn't produced, or the box office is sold out on the evening of the gig. Fair enough, my interests/ tastes don't take me to the £60.00 per head admission price bracket, but for those times when I've winged-it, to still get in for a few quid extra on a £25.00 ticket face value hasn't upset me too much. And there have been times when I've had genuine spares for resale. Where it does upset people and feels unethical is where a few 'handling agencies' or clearing houses buy up every seat for what's guaranteed to be a sell out gig anyway, then charge genuine fans extortionate prices from the get-go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 30, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 30, 2012 Its puzzled me too. There might be less empty seats at the Olympics of the 'Olympic family' had been allowed to sell their tickets... And that of course is exactly where it starts to bring in matters of legality. if you are given a free ticket and do not want it then technically you should return it (unless it is transferable). If you instead sell it to a third party you are both breaking the conditions of issue and profiting at the expense of the organisers of the event and the folk who funded them. As it happens as a UK tax-payer I am one of the folk who funded the London Olympics and while I'm far from happy about repeated references to 'the Olympic family' (who basically seem to be a bunch of hangers on with little better to do) I am even less happy about a facility I helped to fund being fraudulently abused for profit by the two persons involved in the process of illegally selling an unwanted ticket/pass or whatever to a third party. If folk don't want tickets/passes or are not prepared to make proper use of them they should return them to the issuer for resale and - in the case of this particular Olympics - not be profiting at the expense of the ordinary British folk and London Council Tax payers who have not only funded the games but who in many cases are actually keen to get a ticket to go and watch them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted July 30, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 30, 2012 Its puzzled me too. There might be less empty seats at the Olympics of the 'Olympic family' had been allowed to sell their tickets... Why are they taking them, if not intending to use them? That to me is downright disgraceful as it prevents genuine fans from potentially attending. I suspect its the corporate organisations, who frankly don't give a toss whether or not the tickets get used, as they get them for free, or a significant discount. Or else its travel agents. Why can't they give at least 48 hours notice that the tickets aren't going to be used, giving sufficient time to be resold. Further more, if they aren't there 1/2 to 1 hour before the event, then they should be resold at a token price to all comers. Certainly better than large blocks of empty seats. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 45156 Posted July 30, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 30, 2012 I went to a gig in Manchester a couple of years ago, and was approached by a tout who offered to buy any "spare" tickets off me. Also, he was offering said "spare" tickets for sale at a fiver above the face price. The odd thing was that the gig was not sold out, and they were selling tickets at face value just inside the door at the box office. I wonder how much the tout actually made that night? Probably did OK, as I suspect that his presence outside might have given the ticketless an impression that the gig WAS sold out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy C Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I dont see anything particularly wrong with people selling on unwanted tickets - there are now even websites which specialise in resales and generally speaking offer a bit of protection. And theres the rub, protection. Before they had the bright idea of putting peoples photos on an individual ticket at Glastonbury, and it was (and still is) the hottest ticket on the festival circuit, you used to get a load of touts as soon as you came off the Glastonbury turnoff on the M5. And guess what, most of the tickets they sold on were forgeries. It was heartbreaking to see people at the gates being turned away who thought they had the hot ticket - and a tout down the road was £200- £300 better off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I had to flog an AC/DC concert ticket on Ebay once because I was crippled with septic arthritis and couldn't make the gig at Wembley Stadium. I was well pee'd off about not being able to go, but I got my money back. I sold it for the cost price. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Why are they taking them, if not intending to use them? That to me is downright disgraceful as it prevents genuine fans from potentially attending. I suspect its the corporate organisations...... Reportedly it's the hangers-on associated with the national teams / national committees as well. It comes from a sense of entitlement coupled with apathy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I've always wanted to be a "hanger on" - what qualifications do I need apart from a sense of entitlement and apathy? I have been a "freeloader" once or twice... Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted July 31, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 31, 2012 Selling tickets through agencies is a way of life - just another form of outsourcing, if you like. It can be infuriating, though. Every year we book grandstand & camping tickets for the local 24 hr race. Increasingly these are being passed by the organisers direct to Just Tickets etc, who then sell them to corporate entertainment organisations. This means that people who have little interest in the event are given effective priority over the enthusiast - irrespective of price the places are not there to be booked by Joe Public. Every gig, every sports event in the world is now a commercial enterprise. Fan loyalty was discarded as a value years ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted July 31, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 31, 2012 It is beyond me why ticket sellers can't or won't organise re-sale processes. They could deduct a small amount as an admin fee and re-sell to genuine fans at face value. Of course they won't because many of the ticket distributors have stakes in legalised touting, secondary ticketing businesses through which they can make much more money. There have been a variety of scandals with music gig tickets where ticket promoters were selling some tickets direct to the secondary ticketing business. For music fans I always recommend ScarletMist a fan to fan ticket resale website where you are not allowed to resell for more than face value. I have bought and sold on there when I have needed to. Andy C's point about protection for the buyer is a good one though and you still have to be careful handing over cash for a ticket - there is a solution to that which is if both parties agree then use an escrow process. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted July 31, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 31, 2012 Check the ticketing conditions. Many tickets are sold on the basis that they are not transferable and may not be re-sold. Just the same as transport tickets. We could have the argument as to whether or not it is advantageous to any party involved to make tickets transferable (and having regard to the fact that detecting and enforcing a transfer of ticket can be almost impossible) or we can simply pay the asking price and not deal with touts. There is also no guarantee that a ticket bought from any source other than that officially sanctioned is actually a genuine ticket so buyer beware! Ebay sets conditions on the resale of event tickets which both vendors and purchasers should read before offering for sale or bidding / buying. There is no problem (unless the ticket is issued for a named individual or other specific restriction such as the age of the user applies) in someone buying tickets for someone else or buying them and giving them as a legitimate gift. I am with Ian on the general area of ticket agencies. They make life more convenient for theatres and promoters inasmuch as the entire event ticketing is outsourced and is not an ongoing cost - box / booking offices at venues do not have to be open all day every day for example which saves on staffing. This also means everyone is directed to one source for tickets. The downsides are that an additional booking fee usually applies (for what? You are buying a ticket just as you might have done over the counter in days gone by and someone is still paid to process your booking) and there can be log-jams and call-queues when popular events "open". The advent of internet booking has helped but why, then, when the process is almost entirely electronic, is there still often a hefty booking fee? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I've always wanted to be a "hanger on" - what qualifications do I need apart from a sense of entitlement and apathy? having been a previous Games organiser and their family? Plus all the security teams for the dignitaries who don't trust either G4S or our own security, who should in theory have their backs to the events. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike morley Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I once went to a Yes gig at the NEC and enjoyed the spectacle of a tout asking double the face price of the tickets being thrown in the lake outside. That turned out to be far more entertaining than the gig, which was one of the worst I've ever endured. Anyone who'd paid his massively inflated prices must have been really pi55ed off! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chameleon Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 It's not so much the immorality of it, if people are stupid enough to pay hugely overinflated prices then sod them. On the other hand, if the touts buy up loads of tickets to sell on a said prices, they are denying the fans the chance to buy them legitamately at face value. thus creating a shortage and bumping up demand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Just another example of how people with a lot of money (the touts) can gouge people who have less money (the punters). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldgunner Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 The problem is that touts and major resellers have been buying up tickets upon release in huge blocks, causing problems for genuine fans wanting to get in at the proper price. I do not support touts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Steven B Posted August 2, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 2, 2012 More importantly, why did I just read the title of this thread as "Why is trout tickling" wrong/illegal"???? Happy modelling Steven B. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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