Hornby castle arriving?

[robmcg]

I'm always vaguely amused when I see a thread which is about the correct shade of colour.

 

Several things strike me;

 

1. Perception of colour is a uniquely personal thing.

2. The way colour was mixed and applied could vary.

3. We are often comparing with old colour photos where the different firms film stocks would give a different look even if taken at exactly the same time from the same place.

4. The amount of "intraffic-ness" will produce different shades

5. Colour is affect by scale: i.e. seeing a full size engine therefore looking at several square foot boiler is completely different to looking at a couple of square inches of a model

By the way one way of getting that oily but cleaned sheen is to use (sparingly) Johnson,s Klear, almost dry brushed on.

 

There is also the option of unashamed computer changes to pictures, although in the case of this pre-war GWR express surely the reality was in black and white?

 

They must have had more cleaners back in 1938 too! Bachmann put a nice shine on this model, but the lining is perhaps too prominent?

 

 

Rob

[coachmann]

In the bad 'ol days, Triang and Hornby used to print boiler band lining on either side of a raised moulded line, in other words, the lining was actually on the boiler cladding sheets, not the bands. Despite advances in other areas over the past decade, Hornby has continued the legacy of moulding boiler bands too narrow. In fact without removing them completely, it is impossible to line out boiler bands correctly. See images below...

Note the boiler band lining is about the same width as that on the cabsides and tender.

[robmcg]

In the bad 'ol days, Triang and Hornby used to print boiler band lining on either side of a raised moulded line, in other words, the lining was actually on the boiler cladding sheets, not the bands. Despite advances in other areas over the past decade, Hornby has continued the legacy of moulding boiler bands too narrow. In fact without removing them completely, it is impossible to line out boiler bands correctly.

 

 

I hadn't noticed this rather glaring error! Heads must roll!

 

At a glance however I find the Hornby efforts less glaring than Bachmann, in general.

 

Rob

[Fireline]

I hadn't noticed this rather glaring error! Heads must roll!

 

At a glance however I find the Hornby efforts less glaring than Bachmann, in general.

 

Rob

 

Yes, at least in general they don't put the lining into the splashers with a no.2 shovel.... I have a Bachmann Manor which looks like someone let a three year old loose.

[gwrrob]

Now its been out a while can anyone tell me what the haulage capacity is like.Will it pull a rake of all metal coaches for example.

[Ed-farms]

I have to say Kidwelly Castle is amazing, sound is fantastic - hopefully I will upload a video in the next few days for those who have not heard it. PS if you want a reason to buy it and like Monty Python the real castle featured in Holy Grail in the opening scene "your using coconuts" etc.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Now its been out a while can anyone tell me what the haulage capacity is like.Will it pull a rake of all metal coaches for example.

My example could just about manage 30g force on nickel silver rails, once it had done some running to polish the tyres up. That's about what I would expect for the weight on the driven wheels, which isn't that great as supplied. What it will pull depends on the weight and rolling resistance of your coaches, and any gradients present, and the sharpness of curves. On a level nickel silver track layout with 30" minimum radius curves, I would expect it to reliably start fifteen Bachmann mk1 coaches anywhere on this layout if that is of any help.

[7013]

However prototypically a Castle would rarely if ever have a load of 15 coaches on would it? except during WW2.

[coachmann]

It is 53 years ago that a 'Castle' was produced by Hornby (Dublo), and it wasn't half a decent model too. It is weard to think back on this model (Bristol Castle) and the 8F 2-8-0, that the hobby was so close to having scale models even then but went backwards after the Triang-Hornby takeover.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

However prototypically a Castle would rarely if ever have a load of 15 coaches on would it? except during WW2.

Depended on the class of train. For maximum speed, as with the well known Cheltenham Spa Express (aka C. Flyer), six or seven coaches was standard for a Castle. The Cornish Riviera Express was roughly twice the size, booked for fourteen coaches leaving Paddington, though many of the coaches slipped off en-route to enable the little engine to get up the grades down in the West Country. The return train was much lighter as the slipped portions returned by a different service.

[7013]

Funny you should mention that Coachman I still have my original Hornby Dublo 3Rail 'Bristol Castle' and comparing it to the latest model its not that bad, OK it does not have the fine detail, wheels and valvegear, but it looks OK. I still run my old loco from time to time and it runs beautifully, as does my two rail HD 8F. I will photograph my old and new Castles together to compare

[The Stationmaster]

However prototypically a Castle would rarely if ever have a load of 15 coaches on would it? except during WW2.

 

 

'Summer saturdays to the west' are a better than strong possibility and some of the newspaper and other overnight trains are also a likely area for large loads. A 'Castle' could take up to 420 tons trailing unassisted from Paddington to Taunton (and then restricted to 392 tons unassisted up Whiteball) and a similar load as far as Neath. So we are looking at around the 14/15 vehicle mark depending on the stock making up the trains as far as maximum loads are concerned.

[7013]

You are right of course Stationmaster, I recall as a youth seeing Castles on a daily basis the usual was around 9-10 coaches. But yes during the summer excursion trains to the south west were often much longer, I went on many of them.

Just to compare the newest with the oldest 00 Castles I have enclosed these shots

[Ed-farms]

Hornby sound fitted Castle put through its paces on the rolling road

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rF9Yv8TFmkQ

[gwrrob]

Hornby sound fitted Castle put through its paces on the rolling road

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rF9Yv8TFmkQ

 

Thats really nice Ed.Oh for having a dcc layout.

[coachmann]

The sound effect is pretty basic innit. Locos puffing to a halt interests me. How would one do it? Keep regulator open while applying the brakes at the same time..... Mmmmm. You need to key in coasting and light steam etc. At least the sound gave 4 beats per wheel revolution as it accelerated but then things went pear shaped as it got really fast. Interesting for all that. A pal of mine has sound in his locos but the puffs are deeper and have a lot more base than I've ever heard on youTube.

 

The old and new Castle comparisons were interesting.

[Fireline]

The sound effect is pretty basic innit. Locos puffing to a halt interests me. How would one do it? Keep regulator open while applying the brakes at the same time..... Mmmmm. You need to key in coasting and light steam etc. At least the sound gave 4 beats per wheel revolution as it accelerated but then things went pear shaped as it got really fast. Interesting for all that. A pal of mine has sound in his locos but the puffs are deeper and have a lot more base than I've ever heard on youTube.

 

The old and new Castle comparisons were interesting.

 

There is a way to make deceleration far more realistic sounding, by playing with the CV settings. If you adjust CV4 to 50, and CV5 to 30, you should get cutoff and coasting before the brakes apply. There is a slight drawback, though. The engine will take a LONG time and distance to come to a stop!

 

By the way, before you play with the settings, it might be an idea to "read" the values already on the chip. I didn't, and now I have got to look up the original ones again!

[7013]

Steam sounds have improved but I would not pay money for sound in steam until the 'tinny' sound is got rid of, probably needs a better bass speaker. It would be interesting to hear this rendering alongside the Castle sound chip avaiable from Howes model shop. The Hornby chip sadly does not sound like any prototypical Castle I have ever heard.

[The Stationmaster]

I think it the clip demonstrates most of what is right about steam sound (thus far) in British outline locos plus just about everything which is wrong.

 

Clearly recorded around a shed or siding area with the flange squeal (which repeats part way through when 'running at speed') that isn't too welcome, lack of cylinder draincocks being opened, and cut-off & regulator opening and therefore an exhaust beat which are resolutely fixed irrespective of just about anything else. But at least the whistle is clearly GW one and sounds pretty good although seemingly capable of only a short 'pop'. Oh and the vacuum pump is remarkably quiet.

 

A reasonable start I think but an awful long way to go.

[mow]

I went to Weymouth on a trip hauled by Nunney Castle, which generated a strong loud and noticeable bark when starting up from Temple Meads, Weymouth, Bath and Frome and working hard on Evershot Bank. After listening to some clips on YouTube, my own feeling is that the sound on the Hornby model is too soft, and the bass level ought to be more noticeable.

[coachmann]

The lack of cut-off is the most noticeable, which is probably why someone once described the puffs as sounding no better than a peice of cardboard being flipped by the spokes of a bicycle wheel.

 

A starting sequence is roughly as follows : Wind reverser into full forward gear, open drain cocks to dispense with condenced steam, blow whistle to warn of impending movement, open regulator to fill steam passages then slam shut. Reopen and tickle until loco begins to move, then open fully. Loud exhaust beat as loco begins to move and takes up weight of the train, draincocks are partially shut then reverser is wound back a touch to use expansive nature of superheated steam resulting in quieter exhaust. As winding back reverser continues the exhaust gets quieter. A pal of mine has set his "sound" so that the loco automatically increases its 'bark' when it senses an incline. I'm not sure if it automatically goes into clanking rods mode downhill or if he sets this by pressing a button on the hand control.

 

From what he has achieved, I think a decent steam sound is possible with todays equipment, but it must depend on where the sound chips are obtained as well as the size of the speaker. His locos are American narrow gauge 7mm scale running on ¾" gauge track.

[robmcg]

The lack of cut-off is the most noticeable, which is probably why someone once described the puffs as sounding no better than a peice of cardboard being flipped by the spokes of a bicycle wheel. A starting sequence is roughly as follows : Wind reverser into full forward gear, open drain cocks to dispense with condenced steam, blow whistle to warn of impending movement, open regulator to fill steam passages then slam shut. Reopen and tickle until loco begins to move, then open fully. Loud exhaust beat as loco begins to move and takes up weight of the train, draincocks are partially shut then reverser is wound back a touch to use expansive nature of superheated steam resulting in quieter exhaust. As winding back reverser continues the exhaust gets quieter. A pal of mine has set his "sound" so that the loco automatically increases its 'bark' when it senses an incline. I'm not sure if it automatically goes into clanking rods mode downhill or if he sets this by pressing a button on the hand control

 

I agree that sound chips have a long way to go in replicating the exhaust sounds with wide or narrow cutoff, apart from the usual difficulies in recording things onboard or lineside, fast or slow, extraneous noises like helipcopters, diesel horns, and suchlike. Cylinder draincock noises are not wanted in warm starting either, as in a typical station stop of 30 seconds .. (a separate function for cylinder cock noise?)

 

Personally I'd like a speed-correct rod clanking or drifting function too, and real time volume control, but by and large the current sound chips from Hornby are pretty good and can be improved with speakers and fiddling with CVs ... the latter for volume, acceleration and deceleration are very quick and easy to change. Until sound chips improve I am unwilling to spend as much as I have to date on them. here is a Hornby sound clip I made, with some modest changes to decel and acceleration, sound volume reduced slightly, factory speaker and chip, recorded with a cheap Canon point-and-shoot A620 camera single microphone.

 

 

Rob

[coachmann]

If modellers knew how a real steam locomotives functions, they might be a bit more choosy when it comes to DCC sound.

[OFFTHE RAILS]

I suppose this might be considered nit-picking as the new Hornby Castle is a very fine model generally however - I've been looking more closely at my 5068 "Beverston Castle" and reckon that the safety valve cover is leaning forward rather than standing vertically as it should do. The excellent pictures posted by Hilux5972 on 1st August tend to show this too. Does this apply to all of the new Hornby Castles?

[coachmann]

I've been looking more closely at my 5068 "Beverston Castle" and reckon that the safety valve cover is leaning forward rather than standing vertically as it should do.

Classic innit......Appears to be from a turning with no allowance made for the tapered boiler. I've seen similar on Korean brass turnings years ago. If Hornby produced a safety valve cover with tapered base, it is odds on the assemblers would get it the wrong way round accasionally with even more drastic results.....