Buses in Cornwall in 1960's / 1970s

[pH]

Hi,

On behalf of many others I suspect - yes please indeed do !!

Regards

 

This gets weird. I've found the picture, and posted it below. However, I was wrong about the registration. I said "VS xxxx" but as you can see, it's "VVS 913".

 

I can't see how that is a valid registration. Greenock used VS, with no prefix letter, up until 1959, then started AVS etc. I know TVS was used in the year with year letter 'K'. So, if this registration was issued in the normal course of events, it should have a year letter.

 

Can anyone explain this? (Is it a vanity plate?) 

 

[DavidB]

Just a couple of prototype vehicle shots around Penzance (some in Wherrytown works) and Camborne, and I think thats quite enough from me for now! Hope these are of interest

 

Love that 'VODKa' LHS - gorgeous little machine and fondly remembered from family holidays in Penzance. Am I right in remembering that there were 5 in the batch, split across Devon and Cornwall? And wasn't there a later batch in NBC green with the standard curved windscreen and wider radiator grill?

 

Thanks all for the photos and the memories,

 

David

[islandtraction]

Love that 'VODKa' LHS - gorgeous little machine and fondly remembered from family holidays in Penzance. Am I right in remembering that there were 5 in the batch, split across Devon and Cornwall? And wasn't there a later batch in NBC green with the standard curved windscreen and wider radiator grill?

 

Thanks all for the photos and the memories,

 

David

Hi David,

 

I'm pretty sure WN and DG had at least 5 each, maybe more. Also that the VOD-K's were the only such batch of LHS's. There was a later batch of narrow LH's bodied by Marshall, these were pretty ungainly looking things and liveried initially as Royal Blue, for excursions in narrow places e.g. Widecombe and Dartmoor/Exmoor tours. BDV-L comes to mind. I think these were quickly relegated to dual purpose use and painted in NBC bus livery, but I'm open to correction.

 

Little Bus Company also recently produced the VOD-K Marshall LHS as a resin kit. It was a sell out in pre-orders, and even yours truly missed out. The model itself an absolute beauty, mastered by Nigel Roberts of Plymouth. Its sure to be a re-run, so expressions of interest would I'm sure be appreciated by Tony at Little Bus Co, website below. I think he's in Aus at the moment, so may not reply immediately to any queries:

 

http://www.little-bus.com/

 

When DG put theirs on the 19 route, Exeter-Chagford, my journey home to Okehampton often included this diversion, connecting with a 16 at Chagford, leaving this at Whiddon Down for a connection with the 2045 ex Exeter no. 6 to Okehampton. The things you do when your young! This of course following closure of the Okehampton stub end of the Withered Arm. The bubble car train service had been much quicker than the direct Exeter bus. Happy days!

 

Keith

 

 

[PLD]

There was of course another shade of blue used in 'corporate' NBC style for a few years, this being the colour formerly used by Sunderland District Omnibus Co. (part of the 'Northern ' group) - this was about half way between EYMS indigo and MG/N&D blues.

Being exceedingly pedantic, the last 'Blue' Sunderland District buses were infact in the EYMS shade... They were a batch of AEC Renowns transfered from EY that retained the EY colours and simply relettered, until some were painted in to T&W PTE Yellow!

[PhilJ W]

This gets weird. I've found the picture, and posted it below. However, I was wrong about the registration. I said "VS xxxx" but as you can see, it's "VVS 913".

 

I can't see how that is a valid registration. Greenock used VS, with no prefix letter, up until 1959, then started AVS etc. I know TVS was used in the year with year letter 'K'. So, if this registration was issued in the normal course of events, it should have a year letter.

 

Can anyone explain this? (Is it a vanity plate?) 

 

IMG_0843.JPG

VVS is one of those issued for vintage vehicles that have lost their original registration. Regrettably many due to their original numbers going as vanity plates.

[Gwiwer]

Love that 'VODKa' LHS - gorgeous little machine and fondly remembered from family holidays in Penzance. Am I right in remembering that there were 5 in the batch, split across Devon and Cornwall? And wasn't there a later batch in NBC green with the standard curved windscreen and wider radiator grill?

 

Thanks all for the photos and the memories,

 

David

 

Correct - there were five with WN.  Four at Penzance for the Mousehole run mentioned previously which required three on the road with a spare.  One often saw service on the Bodmin town route.   Their allocations changed over time.  Unusually they had identical front and rear windscreen units.

[Flood]

My Jan 1976 and Jan 1977 lists show six Marshall LHS6L at Penzance 1250 - 55, VOD120K - VOD125K. There were also six others for Devon General: 88, 89 and 90 at Newton Abbot, 91 and 93 at Exeter and 92 stored (VOD88K - VOD93K) in 1976 with the same allocations except no. 93 also stored by 1977.

[Xerces Fobe2]

I've attached below pics from my own bus fleet which are those suitable as WN prototypes in Cornwall during the 1960s, plus just a couple I took of real WN vehicles around 1972. Hopefully I haven't gone OTT (as it were - some may see the connection?) with these. I can send more via personal email on request, which is probably more suitable than monopolising this post.

A couple of points Gwiwer made. There was the initial major route renumbering upon the SN/WN "merger" in 1968, but then again around 1971? I seem to recollect many in the Newquay and St Austell areas got new numbers? This obsession with route numbers seemed to be an ongoing process, and continued throughout culminating as Gwiwer says, in the reversion to many of the original WN numbers by dropping the 500 prefix.

I seldom got back to Cornwall during the remainder of the 1970/80s but was shocked by the very evident decline in standards of vehicle presentation starting from the early days of the NBC "livery", through "Cornish Fairways" that period of local branding with which the NBC became fixated, through to "Cornwall Busways", by which time the "big bus" fleet in Cornwall had been reduced to a mobile scrapyard as crudely converted Mercedes vans took over as "mini" buses. It's no wonder the loathsome First group felt comfortable moving in and maintaining the same "standards".

Anyhow the pictures. Left to Right the double deckers are:

1. Bristol KS lowbridge converted from an EFE RT.

2. Bristol KSW highbridge (Buskits resin kit) ONLY used by WN as Lowbridge - model still never been issued and is very much an outstanding.

3. Bristol LD Lodekka (BT Models), WN had loads in all configurations, long and short grilles, open and closed platforms.

4. Bristol FS Lodekka (OOC) WN had 2, 1966/67, the former was at Falmouth.

5. Bristol FLF Lodekka (EFE) WN had loads in both grille configurations.

 

The single deckers:

1. Bristol LWL (Little Bus Company - LBC) resin kit. Still available I think.

2. Bristol LL rebuild from Royal Blue coach. Fanfare Models resin kit - no longer available.

3. Bristol LS standard service bus (EFE) again WN had loads of these.

4. Bristol MW standard service bus, WN only had about 35 new ones, but Truro had a fair sized allocation at the time I was there. Model is a Buskits resin kit, but BT Models are about to issue it onto the

     market as a "diecast" speaking generically - actually they're plastic!

5. Bristol SUL4A service bus. WN had almost all of those built! Seen throughout their territory except for North Cornwall where LS types predominated, excepting 1x SUS and an SUL coach at Delabole.

6. Bristol SUL4A coach quite common in Cornwall. LBC kit - may still be available.

7. Bristol LH ECW service bus. These started to be introduced in this "flat front" style from about 1968.

Other single deck pics:

For Gwiwer this! My conversions of the SUL4A bus to a "COD" style SUS4A, and SUL4A coach to the earlier simpler style with wing motif on the front.

Just a couple of prototype vehicle shots around Penzance (some in Wherrytown works) and Camborne, and I think thats quite enough from me for now! Hope these are of interest,

 

Keith

 

The last photo is the rear yard of the long gone Falmouth Bus Garage as per my model a few posts back.

 

XF

[Xerces Fobe2]

This gets weird. I've found the picture, and posted it below. However, I was wrong about the registration. I said "VS xxxx" but as you can see, it's "VVS 913".

 

I can't see how that is a valid registration. Greenock used VS, with no prefix letter, up until 1959, then started AVS etc. I know TVS was used in the year with year letter 'K'. So, if this registration was issued in the normal course of events, it should have a year letter.

 

Can anyone explain this? (Is it a vanity plate?) 

 

IMG_0843.JPG

I have seen this bus many a time at St Mary's on the Isles of Scilly

XF

[Gwiwer]

Correct - there were five with WN.  Four at Penzance for the Mousehole run mentioned previously which required three on the road with a spare.  One often saw service on the Bodmin town route.   Their allocations changed over time.  Unusually they had identical front and rear windscreen units.

 

That does indeed make six and is correct.

 

I can only blame myself for my levels of fatigue and alcohol consumption and I blame the calendar for making New Year fall when it did

[Ben04uk]

Island Traction,

 

Colin Morris suggests in his 'Western National Omnibus Company' book that Bristol LH's were delivered to Western National in 1973. The photos you took and that are shown on your Flickr website seems to indicate that Bristol LH's were operating in Cornwall as early as 1971 - is this definitely correct or is Colin Morris right?

 

Also, would the Britbus LHW-05 Bristol LH s/deck bus, currently in "East Midland" livery, be suitable for the early 1970s if I changed the decals to Western National ones?

[Gwiwer]

 

 

Colin Morris suggests in his 'Western National Omnibus Company' book that Bristol LH's were delivered to Western National in 1973. The photos you took and that are shown on your Flickr website seems to indicate that Bristol LH's were operating in Cornwall as early as 1971 - is this definitely correct or is Colin Morris right?

 

 

 

The first Bristol LH to Western National, MUO328F, was delivered in 1968 and worked at Penzance.  It is currently preserved by the Cornwall Bus Preservation Group led by former Penzance inspector / Cornwall area manager Melvyl Williams.

http://bcv.robsly.com/lhwnocl.html

Morris may be referring to a particular batch of vehicles or one he illustrates when making the comment cited.

[TheWeatheringMan]

Island Traction,

 

Colin Morris suggests in his 'Western National Omnibus Company' book that Bristol LH's were delivered to Western National in 1973. The photos you took and that are shown on your Flickr website seems to indicate that Bristol LH's were operating in Cornwall as early as 1971 - is this definitely correct or is Colin Morris right?

 

Also, would the Britbus LHW-05 Bristol LH s/deck bus, currently in "East Midland" livery, be suitable for the early 1970s if I changed the decals to Western National ones?

Hi,

Its worth bearing in mind that the Britbus LH is not one of their better models and sufferes from several significant shape and dimensional error.

Its a model that i've deliberatly avoided adding to my collection of buses for these reasons.

Hope thats of interest.

Regards

[richierich]

Westward produced a white metal kit of a BET screen Bristol LH / ECW, but quite hard to find.

[TheWeatheringMan]

Westward produced a white metal kit of a BET screen Bristol LH / ECW, but quite hard to find.

Hi,

This was the version purchased by several National Bus Company subsidaries and the kit makes up into a rather nice model. It was supplied with moulded BET style windscreens but owing to the fairly thick sides the side window glazing stood rather far back.

Well worth looking for but as above somewhat hard to find now and can be pricey when found.

Regards

[Ben04uk]

What about the EFE the 25004 Bristol RELL bus, currently in  "Eastern National" livery? Would that be suitable for the early 1970s if I changed the decals to Western National ones? Were they many Bristol RELL's in Cornwall in the early 1970's?

[PhilJ W]

What about the EFE the 25004 Bristol RELL bus, currently in  "Eastern National" red livery? Would that be suitable for the early 1970s if I changed the decals to Western National ones? Were they many Bristol RELL's in Cornwall in the early 1970's?

Do you mean 'Eastern Counties'? Eastern National were always green. And for any pedants who arre looking in I know that Westcliff who were taken over by EN used red.

[Gwiwer]

The combined Western National group had 69 (IIRC) RELLs distributed between Cornwall and Wiltshire numbered in the 27xx series. Early ones had flat screens and later had the curved variant. Those were around from the early 1970s but were too long for many deeply rural lanes so their use was often on town or main road routes. Most were green but I believe DG gad some from that batch in red. The coach fleet used the RELH model

[Ben04uk]

Sorry, yes I meant in green livery and have corrected my original post.

[edcayton]

Does anyone remember/have any info about a yellow open-top double decker that ran around Newquay in the early 60's? All I can remember is that it was called "Primrose", and I couldn't get enough riding on it!

 

Ed

[janner]

I remember that one very well.  It ran on the 55 service, St Columb Minor to Pentire, I rode on it a lot in my younger days. As far as I recall it was a Bristol K with a cut down highbridge body, unusual as all our local deckers were lowbridge.  It had slatted wooden deats on the top deck.  

 

It was also known as the "Banana Boat".

[PhilJ W]

I remember that one very well.  It ran on the 55 service, St Columb Minor to Pentire, I rode on it a lot in my younger days. As far as I recall it was a Bristol K with a cut down highbridge body, unusual as all our local deckers were lowbridge.  It had slatted wooden deats on the top deck.  

 

It was also known as the "Banana Boat".

Eastern National when they converted lowbridge buses to open top completely removed the sunken upstairs gangway even giving a completely normal ceiling downstairs. Some of these were 'cascaded' to the west country so its possibly one of those. Southend Corporation on the other hand merely floored over the sunken gangway leaving the 'bulge' in the downstairs ceiling.

[Gwiwer]

 

 

Some of these were 'cascaded' to the west country so its possibly one of those.

 

Are we talking the Bristol KSWs of the WNOxxx batch or something earlier?  I wasn't aware any of the WNOs had gone west.  They might have ended up bought by independents (as distinct from "cascaded") but not by WN who had a pair of rare Bristol LDL open toppers, new to WN with hard tops fitted, used at Penzance and Falmouth in some years, also appearing in other restores at times including Newquay and on the magnificent St. Ives - Lands End coast road.

[janner]

The Newquay open topper I remember wasn't a Lodekka Rick. It was an exposed radiator Bristol.  

[islandtraction]

The Newquay open topper I remember wasn't a Lodekka Rick. It was an exposed radiator Bristol.  

There were a handful of prewar highbridge layout Bristol K's transferred to SN/WN as open toppers. Some I think were at Weymouth plus those at Newquay and Falmouth. FHT and GHT registrations IIRC. As the Newquay one/s operated the 55 from Pentire to St Columb Minor, I'm guessing it was Southern National ownership. Now wouldn't a trip up the lovely coastline to Padstow have been a treat if they ever got that far?

 

Keith