Buses in Cornwall in 1960's / 1970s

[Ben04uk]

Can anyone recommend any suitable diecast models of buses which are available in OO gauge from the usual manufacturers that would have been seen in Cornwall, or possibly even Devon, in the 1960's and 1970's? I am after preferably single decker buses for a town/village with a small population as I need them to add to my layout.

[PLD]

Take a look at the Fleetlists pages on the Model Bus Zone website. That lists all the diecast models produced for all major fleets.

 

Likely Stage Carriage operators for you are Western National and Devon General (you'll want the pre-NBC liveries for 60s/Early 70s and NBC livery for Mid 70s onwards) and maybe Greenslades or Grey Cars for tours/excursions.

 

Single deckers would mostly be forward entrance by your era and on rural routes mostly one man operation. DevGen were standardised on AEC Reliances in the 60s, WesNat, mostly Bristol chassis...

[Ben04uk]

That's great, really helpful. Thanks very much.

[Xerces Fobe2]

Here is an example of what is available from my diorama based on Falmouth Depot which i hurriedly made last year!

 

 

For Western National buses if you cannot get the exact model you want you can always purchase one in another Tilling Bus company livery i.e. Eastern National and then change the fleet names, destinations and adds.

 

Hope this helps

 

XF

[Tim Hale]

Ben,

 

I have a copy of the Western National book, it lists and illustrates all those buses used by that company in Cornwall - please just ask for a specific route and I will do my best to provide an answer.

 

However, a Bristol LS5G with ECW bodywork is a number one choice for most rural routes in that timeframe - easily obtainable in Tilling green and you might get lucky with a Western National example.

 

http://www.classictransportpictures.co.uk/images/A44_1.jpg

[Xerces Fobe2]

Ben,

 

However, a Bristol LS5G with ECW bodywork is a number one choice for most rural routes in that timeframe - easily obtainable in Tilling green and you might get lucky with a Western National example.

 

http://www.classictr...mages/A44_1.jpg

 

I agree the LS on Western National route 166 - as in photo above (on a route which I traveled on many times in the 1960's usually on a Lodekka or K) are fairly easy to pick up at Swapmeet for as little as £5

 

XF

[Ben04uk]

Here is an example of what is available from my diorama based on Falmouth Depot which i hurriedly made last year!

 

 

For Western National buses if you cannot get the exact model you want you can always purchase one in another Tilling Bus company livery i.e. Eastern National and then change the fleet names, destinations and adds.

 

Hope this helps

 

XF

 

Excellent scene! What is the third bus in from the left - the single predominately white bus with green roof?

[Ben04uk]

Ben,

 

I have a copy of the Western National book, it lists and illustrates all those buses used by that company in Cornwall - please just ask for a specific route and I will do my best to provide an answer.

 

However, a Bristol LS5G with ECW bodywork is a number one choice for most rural routes in that timeframe - easily obtainable in Tilling green and you might get lucky with a Western National example.

 

http://www.classictr...mages/A44_1.jpg

 

Thanks for the offer, I guess the routes I am interested in those that radiate in and out of Truro, say to Falmouth, Helston, The Lizard, St Mawes, St Austell, Camborne, and Redruth.

[PLD]

Excellent scene! What is the third bus in from the left - the single predominately white bus with green roof?

ECW coach body, probably on Bristol MW chassis, but some built on Bristol LS's [EFE use the one casting for both and ignore the few differences in where grilles etc should be...]

[Tim Hale]

Excellent scene! What is the third bus in from the left - the single predominately white bus with green roof?

 

Bristol LS6G, there also was a coach variant used extensively by Royal Blue

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fido100/4858316992/

[Xerces Fobe2]

Bristol LS6G, there also was a coach variant used extensively by Royal Blue

 

http://www.flickr.co...100/4858316992/

 

Still looks he part though.

 

XF

[crompton 33]

this is the best web site to look up for pic's of all model buses made by efe/ ooc /britbus www.efezone.co.uk/ have a look

[Flood]

I have a list of the Western National bus allocations from Jan to Dec 1976.

 

The West of Cornwall starts the year with pretty much solid Bristol FLFs for the double deckers (and a number of Bristol VRs) with Bristol SUL4 and LH6 buses and some MW coaches. There was only one LS in West Cornwall which was based at Newquay.

 

Leyland Nationals arrive in large numbers from the spring with some ex Southdown Maidstone & District Atlanteans turning up from September onwards.

 

Throughout the year the majority of the coaches were a mixture of Eastern Coachworks Bristol RELH6 and Plaxton bodied RELH6 or Leyland Leopards.

[Gwiwer]

The RtR models have been pretty well covered above but don't overlook the fact that Cornwall had a plethora of independent operators and that WN certainly didn't have things all their own way. By and large they kept themselves to the "better" routes and seldom ventured into really "thin" country. They were required to turn a profit for the Tilling Group at the end of the day which the local man with his single bus wasn't and thus he could work to lower margins on less remunerative routes.

 

Examples in the 1960s / 70s include Grenville (operating out of Troon and Falmouth and with vehicles often based at driver's homes) and Harvey of Mousehole who ran as Blue & Cream alongside WN on the then-busy route into Penzance but was preferred by the villagers there being the local man and with cheaper fares as well; tickets were never issued on his bus either.

 

The June 1965 Cornwall Area WN timetable does not include independents but by May 1977 and under the joint auspices of the NBC and Cornwall County Council the equivalent book listed no fewer than 39 independents with timetabled services west of the Tamar. These ranged from frequent daily operations to the more typical weekly market-day run or school buses which were available to anyone who wished to travel. A few of those listed are still running today and on the same routes as well. "Plus ça change, plus la mȇme chose ..." as the French say. Here they are:-

 

Gill (Cornishman) of Wadebridge

Harvey (Blue & Cream) of Mousehole

Chapman of Rosenannon (Bodmin)

Clue's of Menheniot

Cocks of Trewoon (St. Austell)

Dawe of Camelford

AG & M Deeble (Darley Ford Coaches) of Darley Ford, related to but not to be confused with

EJ Deeble (Caradon Riviera Coaches) of Upton Cross; can anyone suggest why two effectively rival operators within the same family existed so close to each other?

Donnithorne of Penzance

Richardson (Flora Motors) of Helston

Monk & Allday (Fowey Bus Services) of Lostwithiel

Fry of Tintagel

Gordon of Week St. Mary

Grenville Motors, Troon

Hambly of Pelynt

Harris's Coaches, Summercourt

Hopley's Coaches, Mount Hawke

Jennings of Bude

Kinsman of Bodmin

Lidgey's Coaches, Tregony

Mitchell's Coaches, Perranporth

Oxenham (Mounts Bay Coaches) of Penzance

North Cornwall Cars, Yeolmbridge (Launceston)

Prout of Port Isaac

Roberts & Bruce, Lewdown

Roseland Motors, Veryan

Rowe of Dobwalls (Liskeard)

Runnalls (Primrose Coaches) of Godolphin (Hayle)

Hubber (Streamline Coaches) of Newquay

Stevens of St. Ives

Tilley's of Crackington Haven

Pollard (Trelawney Tours) of Hayle

Tremain's Coaches, Zelah

Brown & Davies (Truronian) of Truro

Watson's & Goodman's Tours (Ford's Coaches) of Gunnislake

Webber of Blisland

Harmes (Westways) of Newquay

CR (Chris) Williams of Goonbell (St. Agnes)

 

Others which existed at the time but ran only school or other private contracts included

 

Topping (Sunset) of Brane (Penzance)

Thomas (Brookside) of Relubbus (Penzance)

FT (Freddy) Williams of Camborne - unrelated to CR Williams above.

 

If that doesn't give food for thought to the determined modeller I don't know what will!!! The vehicle variety to be seen was enormous including ex-London buses of varying types, ex-Tilling Group vehicles from round the country, some former local authority buses (Leyland Panthers from City of Lincoln for example which found their way to North Cornwall Cars, John Fry and Webbers), former front-line coaches and a good many lightweight buses and coaches sourced via dealers. A few were even bought new. Among the best-known would have to be Harvey's ex-Halifax Albion Nimbus RJX250 with possibly the largest destination display ever sen in Cornwall.

 

Some operators repainted everything (eventually - or in Cornish dialect "d'reckly" - in many cases) into a fleet livery while others were happy just to get something cheap, working (mostly!) and certified and kept it running in the colours it arrived in. Only the legal lettering and fleet name was changed.

 

If you are representing "Buses in Cornwall" in almost any time period don't confine yourself to the major fleets. There is plenty of other interest out there and variety could be seen in any town at almost any time.

[Gwiwer]

I have a list of the Western National bus allocations from Jan to Dec 1976.

 

Leyland Nationals arrive in large numbers from the spring with some ex Southdown Atlanteans turning up from September onwards.

 

That was when the NBC-led rot really set in. WN seldom performed well financially owing to the vast areas of rural countryside they served and the low patronage of even the better routes much of the time in direct consequence. When they had to feed (IIRC) 15% into NBC's corporate coffers as well they found themselves unable to do so and were therefore not in a position to benefit from too many new buses. They also had a high proportion of crew work relatively late in the day and required suitable one-person vehicles in substantial numbers. NBC were unwilling to send cohorts of VR, LH and National types from the production lines to a loss-maker so WN had to put up with cast-off (ostensibly "surplus") Atlanteans from Western Welsh, Southdown, Maidstone & District and Southampton City all of which were 14' 6" high. They quickly became battered and smashed over routes with trees lopped to the previous standard of 13' 8" for a Bristol Lodekka. They were also unfamiliar to the fitters and spent long periods out of service awaiting spares. Some barely turned a wheel west of the Tamar.

 

WN also got cascaded DMS-type Daimler Fleetines from London and a few other odds and sods to keep the wheels turning. On one visit to Wherrytown (Penzance) depot in 1978 there were no fewer than 24 U/S vehicles parked around the site most of them in bits or with large holes in the panel work.

 

Front line coaching activities fared little better as there was a sizeable superannuated fleet of Bristol MW coaches. More recent vehicles did exist but Plymouth tended to benefit from fleet renewals first and only when something had been run into the ground by Laira men did it get sent west. Leyland Leopards appeared for Royal Blue / National Express work alongside the Bristol RELH type but neither proved satisfactory. The former could not cope with Cornish hills under load while the latter seemed reluctant to complete lengthy trips to Exeter or London reliably.

 

Penzance retained the tiny Bristol SUS buses for the severely restricted Mousehole route until something else equally small became available. 7' 6" wide Bristol LHS types took over including a pair delivered to Harvey which later became part of the WN fleet when that operation was taken over. It was my job to do that run several times a day right at the end of the LHS era.

[Xerces Fobe2]

Grenville Motors of Troon ran a very diverse fleet of old buses and coaches in the 1960/1970s in a variety of liveries I would liike to get hold of a definitive list of their all time fleet in the mid 1970's until the late 1980's when Western National took them over, they ran a fleet of mianly Willowbrook bodied buses.

 

XF

[Gwiwer]

Grenville livery was usually crimson (maroon or plum, some called it) with cream or white relief. Not all their vehicles carried that by any means so the "variety of liveries" comment is valid. Willowbrook-bodied buses, Duple-bodied coaches and lightweight chassis, often Bedford, typified the fleet.

[gwrrob]

Can anyone enlighten me of buses available for a late 40's layout as I think all those mentioned thus far are too late a period.I do like Bedford OBs and the Bristol LS6G's though.

[Xerces Fobe2]

Can anyone enlighten me of buses available for a late 40's layout as I think all those mentioned thus far are too late a period.I do like Bedford OBs and the Bristol LS6G's though.

 

A Bristol K would be a good starting point - I have the book on Western National I will dig it out and have a look to see what buses where around in this era.

 

XF

[Gwiwer]

Same book here. Bristol L-series saloons and K-series 'deckers including K5G and LWL6B models both with rear entrances. Small quantities of AEC Regal III, Guy Arab 5LW "unfrozen" utilities, Bedford OWB saloons and even Beadle chassisless saloons with unusual Sentinel or Morris engines

[gwrrob]

Same book here. Bristol L-series saloons and K-series 'deckers including K5G and LWL6B models both with rear entrances. Small quantities of AEC Regal III, Guy Arab 5LW "unfrozen" utilities, Bedford OWB saloons and even Beadle chassisless saloons with unusual Sentinel or Morris engines

 

Super.Are there likely to be any models available for these ?

[PhilJ W]

The Bristol L and K are made by OOC. The Guy Arab utility is made by both OOC and EFE. The Bedford OWB has recently been introduced by Oxford.

[gwrrob]

The Bristol L and K are made by OOC. The Guy Arab utility is made by both OOC and EFE. The Bedford OWB has recently been introduced by Oxford.

 

The Bedford was mentioned here. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/37106-oxford-diecast-bedford-owb/

[R A Watson]

The pre war K's were hifgh rad types with the 1950 style low rads modelled by the main line bus sellers being, obviously, too late for the 40's or most 50's era in this end of the country.

 

If I get a chance later in the day I will put up some pictures to illustrate the difference.

[PhilJ W]

The low rad Bristols were introduced c1942, so the models are correct for any postwar examples. The pre-war ones with ECW bodies were 'six-bay' having six windows between the cab and the platform and were consequently very archaic looking. The contemporary London 'RT' buses were 'four-bay'.